I'll believe it when I see it too.  The owners fought tooth and nail to delay last season with no fans and they'll do the same this year.  They can force a delay but will first try to "negotaiate" and drag their feet while blaming the players union until they have the start date they want.  We've seen this movie before.  

45 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

I'll believe it when I see it too.  The owners fought tooth and nail to delay last season with no fans and they'll do the same this year.  They can force a delay but will first try to "negotaiate" and drag their feet while blaming the players union until they have the start date they want.  We've seen this movie before.  

I really wish the DH in the NL was resolved. You'd probably have more guys like Nelson Cruz and Michael Brantly with homes.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, manbearpuig said:

I really wish the DH in the NL was resolved. You'd probably have more guys like Nelson Cruz and Michael Brantly with homes.

They're dragging their feet on that one (coincidence?) meanwhile there are over 200 free agent players just sitting out there but pitchers and catchers are going to report in a month and a half.  Ok

2 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

I'll believe it when I see it too.  The owners fought tooth and nail to delay last season with no fans and they'll do the same this year.  They can force a delay but will first try to "negotaiate" and drag their feet while blaming the players union until they have the start date they want.  We've seen this movie before.  

They can’t really force anything though. They have no leg to stand on unless there are local ordinances in Florida or Arizona banning play which doesn’t seem likely. It’s all there in Drellich’s article 

30 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

They're dragging their feet on that one (coincidence?) meanwhile there are over 200 free agent players just sitting out there but pitchers and catchers are going to report in a month and a half.  Ok

They are dragging their feet because they are going to use it as leverage during CBA negotiations, as they should. They know the players want it and will need to pay for it.

46 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

They can’t really force anything though. They have no leg to stand on unless there are local ordinances in Florida or Arizona banning play which doesn’t seem likely. It’s all there in Drellich’s article 

Eugene Freedman sent out a series of tweets that said the owners could invoke force majeure to delay the season. Force majeure would violate the CBA but the owners will claim it does not. Drellich's article rebuts that theory but Freedman intimates it is a possibilty.  I was told months ago the owners wanted to lock out the players if they didn't agree to a new CBA before the season started and this sounds frighteningly similar to that.  

1 hour ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Eugene Freedman sent out a series of tweets that said the owners could invoke force majeure to delay the season. Force majeure would violate the CBA but the owners will claim it does not. Drellich's article rebuts that theory but Freedman intimates it is a possibilty.  I was told months ago the owners wanted to lock out the players if they didn't agree to a new CBA before the season started and this sounds frighteningly similar to that.  

The owners cannot be trusted. If they try to screw the players again and cancel many/most regular season games, I hope the players walk out in late September and there are no playoffs if they are not treated fairly. 

If the owners have no regard to the integrity of competition, the regular season and fans, the players shouldn't have to carry the burden. The owners add nothing to MLB, they only take. Keep all profits, socialize all costs to taxpayers and players. Completely reprehensible.

2 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Eugene Freedman sent out a series of tweets that said the owners could invoke force majeure to delay the season. Force majeure would violate the CBA but the owners will claim it does not. Drellich's article rebuts that theory but Freedman intimates it is a possibilty.  I was told months ago the owners wanted to lock out the players if they didn't agree to a new CBA before the season started and this sounds frighteningly similar to that.  

Link????

1 hour ago, South Side Hit Men said:

The owners cannot be trusted. If they try to screw the players again and cancel many/most regular season games, I hope the players walk out in late September and there are no playoffs if they are not treated fairly. 

If the owners have no regard to the integrity of competition, the regular season and fans, the players shouldn't have to carry the burden. The owners add nothing to MLB, they only take. Keep all profits, socialize all costs to taxpayers and players. Completely reprehensible.

Baseball has by far the strongest union and the owners have far less power compared to all other major sports. 

MLB is the only sport where there isn't a salary cap and they have fully guaranteed contracts.

The owners and players do everything they can to get an advantage over the other. Thats business.

 

If you noticed all other sports had shortened seasons without all the public negotiations. Why? The owners have much more power there.

Edited January 4, 20215 yr by ptatc

8 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Baseball has by far the strongest union and the owners have far less power compared to all other major sports. 

MLB is the only sport where there isn't a salary cap and they have fully guaranteed contracts.

The owners and players do everything they can to get an advantage over the other. Thats business.

 

If you noticed all other sports had shortened seasons without all the public negotiations. Why? The owners have much more power there.

I am going to jump in here to note that the only professional sports in the USA that has an anti-trust exemption is Major League Baseball.

7 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I am going to jump in here to note that the only professional sports in the USA that has an anti-trust exemption is Major League Baseball.

Very true. Doesn't change the fact that MLBPA is the strongest union in the major sports.

Edited January 4, 20215 yr by ptatc

 

This was also interesting to see.  Tatis is now at 2 full seasons of service time.  He also played those two full seasons, so I believe he enters the arb system this year as a super 2 player.

 

19 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Baseball has by far the strongest union and the owners have far less power compared to all other major sports. 

MLB is the only sport where there isn't a salary cap and they have fully guaranteed contracts.

The owners and players do everything they can to get an advantage over the other. Thats business.

MLB is the only sport with an anti trust exemption. The union should lobby Congress and or consider a lawsuit to overturn to create a level negotiating field.

MLB has a de facto salary cap, and does not bargain in good faith, is not open and honest with their business disclosures as the other three professional leagues are contractually obligated to provide. (The NHL's Player Union was a complete cesspool in the 1970s-1980s, read Career Misconduct).

The Players Union has lost a lot of ground under Tony Clark, They need to

• Seek arbitration regarding collusion over the past few seasons fight collusion.
• Seek arbitration or a lawsuit for clubs not adhering to the CBA by skirting minimum player salary requirements under CBA revenue sharing provisions which dictate funds must go toward payroll.
• Negotiate a significant increase to the MLB minimum salary and incorporate significant increases to arbitration awards, to combat ownership collusion over the past several years.
• The Union also should consider expanding their membership to the minor leagues or help create a minor league players union, and to fight to restore previous compensation and draft count levels for the international and domestic drafts the owners rescinded last year.

4 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

MLB is the only sport with an anti trust exemption. The union should lobby Congress and or consider a lawsuit to overturn to create a level negotiating field.

MLB has a de facto salary cap, and does not bargain in good faith, is not open and honest with their business disclosures as the other three professional leagues are contractually obligated to provide. (The NHL's Player Union was a complete cesspool in the 1970s-1980s, read Career Misconduct).

The Players Union has lost a lot of ground under Tony Clark, They need to

• Seek arbitration regarding collusion over the past few seasons fight collusion.
• Seek arbitration or a lawsuit for clubs not adhering to the CBA by skirting minimum player salary requirements under CBA revenue sharing provisions which dictate funds must go toward payroll.
• Negotiate a significant increase to the MLB minimum salary and incorporate significant increases to arbitration awards, to combat ownership collusion over the past several years.
• The Union also should consider expanding their membership to the minor leagues or help create a minor league players union, and to fight to restore previous compensation and draft count levels for the international and domestic drafts the owners rescinded last year.

The union should try do all of those things.  It would benefit them.  That is why there are negotiations for CBAs.  The owners should also try to keep them. As it benefits them.

There is a salary tax but it is not a cap. Teams go over it every year. Teams can't so that in other sports.

Neither group negotiates in total good faith as we saw this summer. The CBA negotiations will as bad if not worse.

 

43 minutes ago, Sleepy Harold said:

 

I hope we are represented.  He would obviously help any team if healthy.

2 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

Link????

Link to a story from two weeks ago, an "anonymous owner friend of Bob Nightengale" explicitly stated there is no chance in hell the season will start on time or be a 162 game season.

Said an American League owner (*cough* Jerry Reinsdorf *cough*) who also requested anonymity: “I don’t see any way spring training starts in February. Zero chance of that. I don’t care if we play 140 games, 120 games or 80 games, we have to make sure everyone is safe to do this right.’’

 

27 minutes ago, Sleepy Harold said:

 

For 1.5 million, he would have been a nice fit as backup catcher.

39 minutes ago, fathom said:

For 1.5 million, he would have been a nice fit as backup catcher.

Absolutely. Like some have thought, a viable and cheap backup C option shouldn't be off the table before the off-season concludes. 

5 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

This was also interesting to see.  Tatis is now at 2 full seasons of service time.  He also played those two full seasons, so I believe he enters the arb system this year as a super 2 player.

 

No, he is not an arbitration eligible player this year. That would be if he had come up after the 15th of April but before June - get an extra year of control, but that extra year is an arb year. They didn't play any games with him. Straight 6 years to free agency - 3 prearb, 3 arbitration. 

3 hours ago, fathom said:

For 1.5 million, he would have been a nice fit as backup catcher.

Not to be confused with actual talent, but I kinda feel like the giants are the most interesting team in baseball. They are operating just way differently than I’d expect.