4 minutes ago, fathom said:

Giolito’s slider had negative value last year. Burnes cutter/slider are great

When Gio uses his slider properly it's absolutely nasty and also an out pitch. He has 3 60 grade+ pitches IMO. 

His fastball and change are so damn good that he doesn't even need the slider most starts. 

Edited January 20, 20215 yr by Jack Parkman

FWIW, Lucas Giolito has the highest Zips projection amongst all starters next year, so saying someone is better than him based on 12 awesome starts is being pretty ambitious.

1 minute ago, iWiN4PreP said:

he's a free agent currently

Uh, okay, thought he had one more year on his deal.

Just now, caulfield12 said:

Why would they make this move, unless they were HUGE believers in Lopez?   And who are we going to play at 2B?  I hope the suggestion isn't Mendick again.

Anyone here who suggests trading Madrigal automatically pencils in La Stella as our 2b.

 

 

Just now, iWiN4PreP said:

Anyone here who suggests trading Madrigal automatically pencils in La Stella as our 2b.

 

 

I think it would be Wong 

1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:

The bottom line is the Brewers have a more wide open division now with the Cubs and Reds going backwards.   The Pirates dumped Bell and Musgrove, among others.   In fact, nearly every analysis out there has this particular division shedding the most talent since the end of the 2020 season.

Why would they make this move, unless they were HUGE believers in Lopez?   And who are we going to play at 2B?  I hope the suggestion isn't Mendick again.

If we trade Madrigal, I think we’d sign La Stella very soon after. 

3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

FWIW, Lucas Giolito has the highest Zips projection amongst all starters next year, so saying someone is better than him based on 12 awesome starts is being pretty ambitious.

Gio's arsenal is elite.  You can only equal 3 pitches as good as Gio's 4SFB/Change/Slider combo.

Edited January 20, 20215 yr by Jack Parkman

3 hours ago, fathom said:

Vaughn, Cease, Kopech (one of two would have to be in it)

I could see Crochet and Vaughn as the 2 headliners. Maybe too much ? But I view Crochet differently than others here. I say if any GM views him as a future stud SP deal him.

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

FWIW, Lucas Giolito has the highest Zips projection amongst all starters next year, so saying someone is better than him based on 12 awesome starts is being pretty ambitious.

I'm not just proclaiming it. I'll bet on it.

Just now, iWiN4PreP said:

Anyone here who suggests trading Madrigal automatically pencils in La Stella as our 2b.

 

 

Maybe...I think the recency bias of his performance against us in the post-season is having an out-sized impact on perceptions, but there's just no huge incentive for the Brewers to move him or Woodruff when the division is so wide open.

Not to mention the Cardinals moving on from Ozuna, Molina and Wainright.  They're in a bit of a rebuild/retool as well.

3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

FWIW, Lucas Giolito has the highest Zips projection amongst all starters next year, so saying someone is better than him based on 12 awesome starts is being pretty ambitious.

They are just talking about stuff. 
 

Edit uh nvm

1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

I don't know a starter in baseball that has 3 pitches as good as Gio's 4SFB/Change/Slider combo. 

Did deGrom die?

I don't think there's any way to say Burnes stuff is better than Gio's.  I really don't see that at all.  That said, I still think Burnes has a great chance of being a #2 type and I'd love to have him.

I love Stiever and Kelly, and I would be willing to trade both of those guys for him.  Dalquist I am also very excited about and I might even be willing to bite that bullet of all 3.  And I wouldn't like it, but I think Burnes is excellent still.  I'd rather take Woodruff by a bit but that would cost Kopech, so no.

If I had 10 Madrigals, I'd give up all 10 for Burnes.  I don't even care.  Heuer I love and think is special, but he's not a SP, so I'd trade him for Burnes also.

But yeah, I don't see how you can look at 2019 of Gio and Burnes and even say for half of a second that Burnes trade value is anywhere near as high as Gio's.  As far as ability, they can both be top guys, but Gio I think has a FB-CH combo that I already like better than what Burnes has, and I'm very excited to see him work with Katz going forward.

1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:

Maybe...I think the recency bias of his performance against us in the post-season is having an out-sized impact on perceptions, but there's just no huge incentive for the Brewers to move him or Woodruff when the division is so wide open.

Not to mention the Cardinals moving on from Ozuna, Molina and Wainright.  They're in a bit of a rebuild/retool as well.

This is so dumb

3 minutes ago, fathom said:

I think it would be Wong 

Nothing Wong with that.  

1 minute ago, Flash said:

I'm not just proclaiming it. I'll bet on it.

Bet what?

5 minutes ago, fathom said:

Did deGrom die?

No, I just forgot about him stupidly. Yeah, Gio's velocity isn't at that level anymore but Gio is about to enter de Grom territory. 

Yeah, de Grom has better stuff than Gio. 

The list of pitchers that have a better arsenal than Giolito right now is very short. 

Cole doesn't have a 3rd pitch as good as Gio's slider. 

Remember how Giolito looked against the A's when he was mixing all 3 pitches? JFC. 

Edited January 20, 20215 yr by Jack Parkman

4 minutes ago, bmags said:

They are just talking about stuff. 

Flash has already claimed that Burnes is the odds on favorite to win NL Cy Young next year, so I’m pretty sure he’s saying Burnes will outperform Giolito next year.

Edited January 20, 20215 yr by Chicago White Sox

6 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Whenever we make a trade for pitching and trade 2 or 3 guys for one, at least the last twenty years...it always seems to work out in the other team's favor.    Then we end up with an injury and even less pitching depth, and more desperation to find a back-end starter.

I’m trying to remember the last time the Sox traded for a 24 year old at mlb minimum with ace upside and four years of control remaining, for there to be an apt comparison to make. Also having a hard time imagining how trading a second baseman for a starting pitcher is going to result in an increase in desperation for starting pitchers.

4 minutes ago, Flash said:

I'm not just proclaiming it. I'll bet on it.

Bet what?

IMO there should be a gang bet.

Giolito's Gang vs. Burnes Gang.

I'm with Lucas.  I say he's better than Burnes in 2021 and in 2022.

Edited January 20, 20215 yr by YourWhatHurts

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Flash has already claimed that Burnes is the odds on favorite to win NL Cy Young next year, so I’m pretty sure he’s saying Burnes will outperform Giolito next year.

Thanks CWS. Thats exactly what I'm saying lest there be any confusion.

I think what people think of as stuff will vary. Giolito gets a lot of help out of his height and delivery. Hitters talk about how his change isn’t Johan Santana’s they just can never pick it up vs his fastball.

Burnes has the pitches I think of more in terms of stuff, but it’s also a lot of break instead of drop which usually isn’t my fav. But it looks fun.

1 minute ago, YourWhatHurts said:

Bet what?

You pick the relevant metrics to compare Burnes and Gio in 2021. 

3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Flash has already claimed that Burnes is the odds on favorite to win NL Cy Young next year, so I’m pretty sure he’s saying Burnes will outperform Giolito next year.

Yeah I just edited after seeing he actually meant he’s better than giolito

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