35 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

So you are just going to ignore Delta variant and impact of a variant that was clearly more highly contagious that came rushing out during the time frame you indicated. 
  

Beyond Delta - the us populations behaviors around COVID also shifted. More people living closer to normal lives. More people going out, more vacations, less restrictions etc. Not saying things back to normal but most vaccinated people made some choice to resume many things that they had stopped doing prior to being vaccinated. 

I didn't ignore anything. You're just framing the situation through the lens of the Delta variant. There was plenty of writing in the media that the vaccine is effective against the Delta variant when it first came to the US. Not sure if the media has abandoned that viewpoint though. Regardless, if the vaccine is effective against the delta variant, how to we make sense of the cases increasing in countries that are nearing 2/3 vaccinated rates and higher? I simply posted the actual data of COVID cases and vaccination rates in certain countries with high vaccination rates to substantiate my point. I wasn't trying to apply it to the way you're looking at this whole COVID situation I was simply proving the point that there is no correlation between vaccination rates slowing spread like you claimed. Could you please provide the data that brought you to that opinion?

Also, if the vaccine's effectiveness can't be judged on positivity rates because of the variant delta, why isn't there a vaccine being made for the delta variant? If the vaccine doesn't protect against the Delta variant (cases are skyrocketing in majority vaccinated countries), why are we able to do all the things (mostly sports/entertainment/travel related, etc.) that they wouldn't allow last year?

On your second paragraph, that's not necessarily a result of the vaccine. In some cases, yes, but not all. Concerts, travel restrictions, sporting events, etc. weren't allowed last year. If they were, many Americans would have gone regardless if they had been vaccinated or not. It was only a subset of people that were declining to go into public situations as a whole until they were vaccinated. Almost everyone, at least in states like Illinois or California, changed the way they lived their life one way or another but that has much more to do with the government's and corporations' response to the virus as opposed to the accessibility to the vaccine. 

Edited September 22, 20214 yr by raBBit

Either Pfizer or Moderna is in trials for a delta-specific booster shot. I think Moderna but I'm not 100% sure. Pfizer is still in trials for an Alpha variant booster that may offer enhanced protection against Delta.

 

The vaccines aren't highly sterilizing against Delta like they were against o.g. SARS-CoV-2, but it's not like it dropped to zero. The problem is that R0 with Delta is so high that vaccines alone aren't enough to bring it R below 1 unless you're >90% vaccinated. You need to frame things through the lens of Delta because that's what caused everything to explode again in multiple countries around the world that had crushed caseloads either through aggressive vaccination (Israel) or through aggressive NPI's (Vietnam, Australia among others).

Edited September 24, 20214 yr by StrangeSox

 

Quote

 

https://fortune.com/2021/08/24/singapore-pivot-covid-zero-reopening-international-travel/
 

Because Singapore is no longer a Zero Covid (see China, Australia, NZ) country, as they believe the higher rates are worth it to attract businesses…especially banking and finance/investing…away from Hong Kong, which along with Australia and Nz has the toughest quarantine rules in the entire world.  They also have a higher population density to deal with in terms of opening up.  

China has no community spread even with two vaccines that are just 20% effective against Delta even with a double dose, btw.

 

Now Singapore is changing direction. The country is about to become the first to go from a zero-tolerance approach to COVID-19 to one that will allow COVID to become endemic in its population. Its new approach is a contrast to that of its counterpart and sometimes-rival Hong Kong, which closed its borders on March 25, 2020. Both cities—like many other places in Asia—adopted a “COVID-zero” strategy, using social distancing and, in Singapore’s case, lockdowns to eradicate local cases of COVID-19 while using travel restrictions and inbound quarantine to control imported cases. Now, more than a year later, Singapore is cautiously reopening, while Hong Kong’s government has announced a raft of new inbound quarantine restrictions.

Not that Singapore will allow life to return to normal. It is choosing to take it slow. First, it has set itself an unusually high bar for vaccination: It won’t begin to reopen until 80% of its population have been double-jabbed. By contrast, Britain lifted restrictions with about 65% fully vaccinated. Second, even when it reaches that threshold in early September, Singapore will reopen with a whimper rather than a bang. On Sept. 8, Singaporeans will be allowed to travel without quarantining on their return—but only to two countries with low rates of COVID-19, Brunei and Germany. For the time being, mask-wearing will remain mandatory, contact-tracing apps will remain in use, and restaurants will still have to abide by the 10:30 p.m. curfew. 

Edited September 23, 20214 yr by caulfield12

For anyone still waiting on more data. Last night I attended the visitation for the father of a former player. A formerly healthy fifty-two year old whose family was able to spend 35 days watching him slowly die from COVID. In memory, the rest of the family who weren’t already vaccinated, went and got vaccinated. I guess that was data enough for them. 
 

 

A person in my community, I do not know him personally but do a lot of business with his company, died at age 52.  Pretty healthy small business owner that was anti-vax and anti-mask. 

I am still mystified that people do not think this is a real thing.

 

2 hours ago, Texsox said:

For anyone still waiting on more data. Last night I attended the visitation for the father of a former player. A formerly healthy fifty-two year old whose family was able to spend 35 days watching him slowly die from COVID. In memory, the rest of the family who weren’t already vaccinated, went and got vaccinated. I guess that was data enough for them. 
 

 

 

1 hour ago, Harry Chappas said:

A person in my community, I do not know him personally but do a lot of business with his company, died at age 52.  Pretty healthy small business owner that was anti-vax and anti-mask. 

I am still mystified that people do not think this is a real thing.

 

It's amazing how many times I've read stories exactly like this.

Unvaccinated person dies, everyone that knows them immediately goes out and gets vaccinated.

Person who was loudly anti-vax/anti-mask dies of Covid.

It's an easy pattern to spot, yet it seems to keep happening every. single. day. At this point it's difficult to muster up any sympathy for these people.

 

 

 

26 minutes ago, Iwritecode said:

 

It's amazing how many times I've read stories exactly like this.

Unvaccinated person dies, everyone that knows them immediately goes out and gets vaccinated.

Person who was loudly anti-vax/anti-mask dies of Covid.

It's an easy pattern to spot, yet it seems to keep happening every. single. day. At this point it's difficult to muster up any sympathy for these people.

There's an entire subreddit for this scenario, r/HermanCainAward

On 9/21/2021 at 9:46 AM, BigSqwert said:

(handful of people with adverse vaccine side effects) "whoah! whoah! whoah! I have serious concerns"

Handful?

Hmmm, two people in my immediate family have had "problems" after getting vaxxed. I won't copy and paste their problems sent to me as you guys probably won't believe anybody's having problems and that I made it up. This is in addition to my nephew who fainted but was OK after banging his head.

My point is I am one person and know two people seriously screwed up (heart woes) in the immediate wake of being vaxxed. If I know two people you think there aren't a ton more? Good for you in trusting the government on numbers of people feeling adversity following the vax. You cant even print a story like this on FB or Twitter or you get it removed. The two people I know have been getting test after test, can't work, etc., as they try to figure out what the hell is wrong and what they can do to relieve heart woes and in one case a lotta pain. Probaby a coincidence; I betcha they had heart woes anyway? Tell that to their families. They don't see it that way. They aren't mad at anybody just concerned of their loved one having problems after a vax. Compassion for their relatives who might not want to get vaxxed? I feel for them.

Again if I know two people having problems, what are the odds of a TON of people having problem? I'm just one person in a huge country. Do any of you know anybody in your circle who has had health woes after being vaxxed? Please be honest. I'd like to hear about it. Again, I know 3 so there have to be a TON.

And yes I encourage hesitant people to get vaxxed all the time. I deduced it's the right call to get vaxxed.

If I go down I go down after 'trusting' my government and doctor so be it. I made the vax call for myself. I wish everybody would at least have compassion for those who won't get vaxxed. It's difficult. All I ask is we be fair as a country and print data not only of Covid deaths but problems coincidental or otherwise caused after people are vaxxed. I happen to think people have the right to just say no to vax.

Peace.

Edited September 24, 20214 yr by greg775

5 hours ago, Iwritecode said:

 

It's amazing how many times I've read stories exactly like this.

Unvaccinated person dies, everyone that knows them immediately goes out and gets vaccinated.

Person who was loudly anti-vax/anti-mask dies of Covid.

It's an easy pattern to spot, yet it seems to keep happening every. single. day. At this point it's difficult to muster up any sympathy for these people.

I know of a couple in my hometown that I knew fairly well.

6 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I know of a couple in my hometown that I knew fairly well.

Do you know anybody who has been vaxxed with serious adverse reaction? Just a sincere question as we examine both sides of  an emotional issue.

6 minutes ago, greg775 said:

Do you know anybody who has been vaxxed with serious adverse reaction? Just a sincere question as we examine both sides of  an emotional issue.

None.

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

None.

Fair enough. I know three. I wish others would respond here and nationally.

2 minutes ago, greg775 said:

Fair enough. I know three. I wish others would respond here and nationally.

There are statistics on exactly this.

19 minutes ago, greg775 said:

Do you know anybody who has been vaxxed with serious adverse reaction? Just a sincere question as we examine both sides of  an emotional issue.

Personally none, and every person I interact with has been vaccinated. 

Additionally my law firm has not received a single call about vaccine adverse reaction. Every week we receive multiple calls on how to legally get people out of vaccines, but no one has actually called with an adverse reaction. 

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

There are statistics on exactly this.

And they aren’t showing lots of adverse reactions or deaths compared to the amount of vaccines administered IIRC.

6 minutes ago, The Beast said:

And they aren’t showing lots of adverse reactions or deaths compared to the amount of vaccines administered IIRC.

Incredibly few.

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

There are statistics on exactly this.

Statistics being totally ignored by the media. I'm sure you agree any post about reactions to the vaccines are met with dismissal on social media. You can find the information on Covid deaths and hospitalizations in any town in the country. Vaccine problems? Nah. Good luck hunting for figures. If you have a way to find them quickly, please send me links.

1 hour ago, Soxbadger said:

Personally none, and every person I interact with has been vaccinated. 

Additionally my law firm has not received a single call about vaccine adverse reaction. Every week we receive multiple calls on how to legally get people out of vaccines, but no one has actually called with an adverse reaction. 

Nice. It gives me additional hope I'll be fine.

Just now, greg775 said:

Statistics being totally ignored by the media. I'm sure you agree any post about reactions to the vaccines are met with dismissal on social media. You can find the information on Covid deaths and hospitalizations in any town in the country. Vaccine problems? Nah. Good luck hunting for figures. If you have a way to find them quickly, please send me links.

Adverse reactions to the vaccine are about as close to zero as is humanly possible.  700,000 covid deaths and this is what you want to talk about.

42 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Adverse reactions to the vaccine are about as close to zero as is humanly possible.  700,000 covid deaths and this is what you want to talk about.

Approaching 5 million worldwide and likely undercounted.

50 minutes ago, greg775 said:

Nice. It gives me additional hope I'll be fine.

Greg I think you should investigate your anecdotal stories a little further.  Or explain "problems" and how they are directly related to the vaccine.  Those sort of things are supposed to be reported and investigated

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

Adverse reactions to the vaccine are about as close to zero as is humanly possible.  700,000 covid deaths and this is what you want to talk about.

Then get the word out to the MANY MANY anti vaxxers. They are scared to take the vax and do not trust the government with their health. If this is true then there should be a lot more people willing to get vaxxed. Count the number of people unwilling to take the jab(s). They are not all just conspiracy theorist nutjobs. They are worried about their own health if they get vaxxed. Just cause many of us disagree with them doesn't mean they are all kooks. Lotta Americans won't' be vaxxed. Wishing it won't make that fact go away.

Edited September 24, 20214 yr by greg775

1 hour ago, greg775 said:

Then get the word out to the MANY MANY anti vaxxers. They are scared to take the vax and do not trust the government with their health. If this is true then there should be a lot more people willing to get vaxxed. Count the number of people unwilling to take the jab(s). They are not all just conspiracy theorist nutjobs. They are worried about their own health if they get vaxxed. Just cause many of us disagree with them doesn't mean they are all kooks. Lotta Americans won't' be vaxxed. Wishing it won't make that fact go 

Edited September 25, 20214 yr by whitesoxfan99

2 hours ago, BigSqwert said:

Approaching 5 million worldwide and likely undercounted.

WAY undercounted.