27 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

 

Another 1st round exit incoming.

1 minute ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Why do people assume they would shop Abreu? That is never going to happen.

No idea.  I truthfully think Eloy is just as unlikely.  Eloy will be worth significantly more after next season with something like .290/.340/.565 line with 40 some homers.  And honestly, I think he can do better than that.  

I just can't wrap my head around Hahn getting something more valuable than that back for him.  

9 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Keuchel always was going to be an overpay...basically, for that one 2020 season.  But he was the VERY back-end of that FA pitching market, at least in terms of the A Tier.

I guess you can argue that Castellanos was almost a hitting version of that, not elite, but a very high quality hitter...obviously younger, of course.

I love this because it backtracks on itself.

"He was on the VERY back end...of the A Tier."

Like, you're trying so hard to discount Keuchel as a free agent signing that summer while also acknowledging that he actually was fairly ranked. He got higher than projected by MLBTR, but w/e. You probably would have been happy if they gave #3 free agent Eric Hosmer an albatross contract, even though the rankings from the time basically say "yeah, this contract is gonna be fucking crippling."

Keuchel sucked last year. The defense sure didn't help, but neither did giving up home runs. Hopefully rebuilding innings can help him. If not, he's likely gone (I don't see the team letting him get to 160 IP if he pitches the same way).

Good morning guys, remember when we gave up our 4th overall pick for a closer that had 30 good innings for the first time in 3 years? Good times.

25 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

No idea.  I truthfully think Eloy is just as unlikely.  Eloy will be worth significantly more after next season with something like .290/.340/.565 line with 40 some homers.  And honestly, I think he can do better than that.  

I just can't wrap my head around Hahn getting something more valuable than that back for him.  

Eloy is going to have to do something with his swing to put up those numbers. The injury and time off likely had a lot to do with his September funk but he has some adjustments to make. Jimenez' market value is mixed at this time. Field play (or lack thereof), aversion to DH and some inconsistency at the plate shade the high end potential he obviously has. But yeah, at this time, I can't imagine many scenarios that would lead the Sox to seriously consider moving him.

Edited October 28, 20214 yr by FoxForce2

https://www.theonion.com/old-school-baseball-fan-doesn-t-need-some-formula-to-te-1845497661?utm_campaign=The Onion&utm_content=1635434103&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR1vhgsoE3Koj1dswjg7rgtXph7llZgnU4kJqcavEj24LgJicPJUJnTdITk

7 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

https://www.theonion.com/old-school-baseball-fan-doesn-t-need-some-formula-to-te-1845497661?utm_campaign=The Onion&utm_content=1635434103&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR1vhgsoE3Koj1dswjg7rgtXph7llZgnU4kJqcavEj24LgJicPJUJnTdITk

Yeah you gotta be careful with those habeneros.

18 minutes ago, FoxForce2 said:

Eloy is going to have to do something with his swing to put up those numbers. The injury and time off likely had a lot to do with his September funk but he has some adjustments to make. Jimenez' market value is mixed at this time. Field play (or lack thereof), aversion to DH and some inconsistency at the plate shade the high end potential he obviously has. But yeah, at this time, I can't imagine many scenarios that would lead the Sox to seriously consider moving him.

Oh, no doubt.  Eloy was a mess after his first couple weeks back.  He's got some serious work to do this offseason.  But I believe in him.  I think he'll be a monster nex season, and hopefully Sox are smart and DH him most of the time to avoid needless injuries.

Frankly, the numbers I posted are what he did in 2020 extrapolated out over 150 games.  I don't think that is peak Eloy.  He is a special hitter. 

40 minutes ago, pettie4sox said:

Another 1st round exit incoming.

How many times are we going to "announce" that Tony La Russa is our manager just to gin up fresh outrage?  Can I have your attention please:  I'd like to announce that the Sox did indeed trade Tatis for Shields years ago.  TURN ON THE FIREWORKS

Any thoughts on what Leury will/would come back for?  His value is interesting when comparing his use to his salary!  Baseball Reference says he has made $11 million over his career already and made $3.5 million this past year.  He is a free agent...will any other organization see him as someone they would like to add?  He had a very special role on this past season's team and in the hearts of the fans!  But I think it will be interesting to see how much ($$$) the White Sox truly value him. 

2 minutes ago, BrittBurnsFan said:

Any thoughts on what Leury will/would come back for?  His value is interesting when comparing his use to his salary!  Baseball Reference says he has made $11 million over his career already and made $3.5 million this past year.  He is a free agent...will any other organization see him as someone they would like to add?  He had a very special role on this past season's team and in the hearts of the fans!  But I think it will be interesting to see how much ($$$) the White Sox truly value him. 

I think he's all but guaranteed to resign.  2 years $7.5M with $500k buyout on a $5M team option for the third year is my guess. 

1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

Yeah, I am going to go with the agree to disagree route.  Did you not also see how poor our defense was in the playoffs?

Abreu is going no where.  Sox are not selling low on Eloy.  Maybe Vaughn is dangled this offseason, but I sure as hell hope not.  Castellanos is a poor defender.  I agree his bat helps this lineup (tho it doesn't help the lineup balance we badly need to address), but he's just not a fit.  We need at worst an average defender in RF with Vaughn/Eloy in LF.  Nick C. is not that.  Yes, he is a good hitter, but Conforto is a far better fit for this lineup.  

Sounds like you're mostly focused on building the best MLB the Show team, so I will leave it at that. 

Im looking at Conforto’s defensive metrics and at least from a DWar standpoint doesn’t look that much different from Castellanos’ defense. Idk I’m sticking with having the best players on this team that’s in contention for a title, I think Castellanos would make this lineup very tough to deal with. Yes defense is an issue but again I really think 1 if not 2 of Eloy/Sheets/Vaughn/Abreu can be dealt to fix those defensive holes the Sox have. 

34 minutes ago, reiks12 said:

Good morning guys, remember when we gave up our 4th overall pick for a closer that had 30 good innings for the first time in 3 years? Good times.

The trade will end up being a huge L on Hahn's resume. 

However it's been said by many including Steve Stone, let's not kid ourselves on Madrigal ever living up to his draft status. 

 

3 minutes ago, HOFHurt35 said:

The trade will end up being a huge L on Hahn's resume. 

However it's been said by many including Steve Stone, let's not kid ourselves on Madrigal ever living up to his draft status. 

 

Did Stone really say that? Considering he himself is a little guy who admittedly didn't really know what he was doing until he was in his 30s, it seems kind of weird he would label a 23 or 24 year old after about half a season in the big leagues.

9 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I think he's all but guaranteed to resign.  2 years $7.5M with $500k buyout on a $5M team option for the third year is my guess. 

What if he sees a chance to start in another organization?  I mean...he could be our starting 2B next year...but I hope not.  I love the guy...just don't want another season where he has to get so many ABs!

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

Did Stone really say that? Considering he himself is a little guy who admittedly didn't really know what he was doing until he was in his 30s, it seems kind of weird he would label a 23 or 24 year old after about half a season in the big leagues.

The day of/after the trade Stone said on the radio that Nick M was drafted much higher than he should have been drafted.  Might not of been those exact words but made it clear that Stone did not think Nick M was worthy of being the 4th pick of the draft. 

Just now, BrittBurnsFan said:

What if he sees a chance to start in another organization?  I mean...he could be our starting 2B next year...but I hope not.  I love the guy...just don't want another season where he has to get so many ABs!

I think Leury really likes being with the White Sox.  There was that story prior to 2020 season that Hahn went to tell Leury he was going to non-tender him, and he begged for another chance and convinced Hahn.  I think Leury is comfortable with his role (even if he was overused in 21), and I think all things being equal he'd rather stay with the Sox.

That being said, someone offers him significantly more $ than the Sox, well then, tip your cap and wish him well.  

2 minutes ago, BrittBurnsFan said:

The day of/after the trade Stone said on the radio that Nick M was drafted much higher than he should have been drafted.  Might not of been those exact words but made it clear that Stone did not think Nick M was worthy of being the 4th pick of the draft. 

Yep.  Even if he was right that was classless, and reflected poorly on the organization as it read like a message from the FO kicking somebody on the way out.  Stone has become such a ball of grievance and scorn, which is too bad because he's really knowledgeable and helpful as a color announcer.

4 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I think Leury really likes being with the White Sox.  There was that story prior to 2020 season that Hahn went to tell Leury he was going to non-tender him, and he begged for another chance and convinced Hahn.  I think Leury is comfortable with his role (even if he was overused in 21), and I think all things being equal he'd rather stay with the Sox.

That being said, someone offers him significantly more $ than the Sox, well then, tip your cap and wish him well.  

Considering the injuries and failings in mid-season personnel moves, TLR had to overuse Garcia. There weren't many better options in most instances. IMO Leury is one of the valuable Sox to keep around for '22 and '23.

9 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Did Stone really say that? Considering he himself is a little guy who admittedly didn't really know what he was doing until he was in his 30s, it seems kind of weird he would label a 23 or 24 year old after about half a season in the big leagues.

 

6 minutes ago, BrittBurnsFan said:

The day of/after the trade Stone said on the radio that Nick M was drafted much higher than he should have been drafted.  Might not of been those exact words but made it clear that Stone did not think Nick M was worthy of being the 4th pick of the draft. 

Stone's comments on Madrigal were downright disrespectful. Basically picked his whole game apart. Trashed him on the way out like someone on a reality show would trash their ex. I don't know why Stone found that necessary but I remember being shocked how candid and rude he was. 

1 minute ago, raBBit said:

 

Stone's comments on Madrigal were downright disrespectful. Basically picked his whole game apart. Trashed him on the way out like someone on a reality show would trash their ex. I don't know why Stone found that necessary but I remember being shocked how candid and rude he was. 

I was shocked as well!  I liked the honesty (if those were his true feelings) but I as I listened I kept thinking to myself "wow, Stone really does not like Nick"!  It almost seemed personal. 

Just now, BrittBurnsFan said:

I was shocked as well!  I liked the honesty (if those were his true feelings) but I as I listened I kept thinking to myself "wow, Stone really does not like Nick"!  It almost seemed personal. 

Definitely seemed personal. Madrigal is not an "old school" kid for lack of better words. He didn't take to instruction and didn't feel like he needed to change his game. The old school people in the org were always divided on him. 

3 minutes ago, 35thstreetswarm said:

Yep.  Even if he was right that was classless, and reflected poorly on the organization as it read like a message from the FO kicking somebody on the way out.  Stone has become such a ball of grievance and scorn, which is too bad because he's really knowledgeable and helpful as a color announcer.

Classless?  For giving his opinion at the time and calming all the bridge jumpers on what they perceived as an overpay? 

Yes, the results on the trade sucked now.   But the deal was a no-brainer at the time.   And it's been said the Cubs had better offers on the table but as a favor to Craig and his sick kid they wanted to allow him to stay in Chicago. 

 

 

6 minutes ago, FoxForce2 said:

Considering the injuries and failings in mid-season personnel moves, TLR had to overuse Garcia. There weren't many better options in most instances. IMO Leury is one of the valuable Sox to keep around for '22 and '23.

I agree there were not better options.  He was still overused, even if was unavoidable.  Leury was mostly great in 21.  

There are rumors that Madrigal rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. Anyone know more about that?