RF vs 2B - Where to Invest?

[CentralChamps21]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

With this roster’s injury history I think you can readily make a case for signing Leury and another utility player and stashing Romy at AAA so that your bench is 3 deep in case of multiple injuries.

Yeah, Leury had a 2 fWAR season last year and you're going to get him fairly cheap. There's no reason not to bring him back, unless, like I said, someone else offers him starter money.

[poppysox]

5 minutes ago, CentralChamps21 said:

Yeah, Leury had a 2 fWAR season last year and you're going to get him fairly cheap. There's no reason not to bring him back, unless, like I said, someone else offers him starter money.

Obviously...Tony likes him.  I think he stays.

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

We shouldn’t prioritize positional depth over pitching and starting nine spots IMO when we play in the weakest division in baseball.  The salary difference between Leury & Romy could be used to reinforce the pitching staff in some way and injuries to our staff is the number one thing that could derail us during the regular season next year.  And rental positional guys are relatively affordable at the deadline (see Braves 2021), so just worth not allocating excess resources to the utility spot right now when we have a kid that led AA South League in OPS and is deserving of an opportunity.  If we faced stiffer competition I’d feel differently, but we aren’t in the AL East or NL West and should take that into consideration when building out our roster this offseason.

I get why people are insisting the division will be pushovers, but I do think we need to have some caution in that. First of all, Detroit will likely spend some money. Second, Minnesota could as well, and although they crumbled this year, if they landed a Rodon and a couple of relievers that could be a place for a rapid turnaround. Third, it is possible the CBA could force Cleveland and KC to spend more - a minimum payroll would do that. 

Second and a bigger one - talent doesn’t always equal record. Last year Seattle outplayed their Pythagorean record by 14 wins and that was after trading away their closer. Had Cleveland done that, the White Sox miss the playoffs. In 2019 the Brewers outplayed their by 8, the 2018 Mariners outplayed theirs by 12. I believe it was 07 when the Diamondbacks made the World Series with a negative regular season run differential? Point being, don’t count out teams just because you have a talent advantage, some randomness is guaranteed.

Finally, 2 wins last year earns home field advantage, and even though you don’t have to agree, I give the white Sox a much better chance of those first two games were at home. 

[Balta1701]

10 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Obviously...Tony likes him.  I think he stays.

I think he does too, but also remember he has an extensive injury history.

[GreenSox]

I'd rather sign Leury to be the 2B starter, than a lot of these trades and trade targets bandied about.
 

[Tony]

1 minute ago, GreenSox said:

I'd rather sign Leury to be the 2B starter, than a lot of these trades and trade targets bandied about.
 

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

14 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

I'd rather sign Leury to be the 2B starter, than a lot of these trades and trade targets bandied about.
 

If you sign Conforto and a legit starter, then IDGAF who plays second. ROMY TIME! lol

[bmags]

I don't think Leury would be something I'd complain too much about.

Prior to 2021, his splits as a LHH vs RH were worse, which was why it was annoying he was getting all of the action vs. RHP even if he was a switch hitter. But, that's the thing about switch hitters, they sometimes just need more at bats. He ended the season league average vs. RHP.

You can make same case, I believe, for his defense. He has in interviews talked about how he'll try to focus on outfield or infield, and so when sox expect him infield more often he'll practice more there, but it's hard to stay equally fresh in all of them. If he had time to commit to 2b I think he'd be pretty good there, he has a nice strong arm for double plays and plays to his right.

But this is all because there just aren't a lot of options for good 2b vs. RHP available. So, if we vastly improve RF and get a pitcher, as mentioned, then yeah, if leury is our 2b I wouldn't be that disappointed.  

I'd rather have corey seager, obviously.

[southsider2k5]

29 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

I'd rather sign Leury to be the 2B starter, than a lot of these trades and trade targets bandied about.
 

Look I get that Leury hit a big homer in the playoffs and had a fairly decent season, but let's not forget his history.  He's got a pretty good history of missing periods of time due to injury, and even in his career year, he put up an OPS+ of 96.  He's a great tool to have off of the bench, but if he is a starer for you, you are already looking to replace him and upgrade.

[Bob Sacamano]

4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Look I get that Leury hit a big homer in the playoffs and had a fairly decent season, but let's not forget his history.  He's got a pretty good history of missing periods of time due to injury, and even in his career year, he put up an OPS+ of 96.  He's a great tool to have off of the bench, but if he is a starer for you, you are already looking to replace him and upgrade.

Exactly. You’d be looking to improve the position in June/July so just improve it now.

[Chicago White Sox]

2 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

I get why people are insisting the division will be pushovers, but I do think we need to have some caution in that. First of all, Detroit will likely spend some money. Second, Minnesota could as well, and although they crumbled this year, if they landed a Rodon and a couple of relievers that could be a place for a rapid turnaround. Third, it is possible the CBA could force Cleveland and KC to spend more - a minimum payroll would do that. 

Second and a bigger one - talent doesn’t always equal record. Last year Seattle outplayed their Pythagorean record by 14 wins and that was after trading away their closer. Had Cleveland done that, the White Sox miss the playoffs. In 2019 the Brewers outplayed their by 8, the 2018 Mariners outplayed theirs by 12. I believe it was 07 when the Diamondbacks made the World Series with a negative regular season run differential? Point being, don’t count out teams just because you have a talent advantage, some randomness is guaranteed.

Finally, 2 wins last year earns home field advantage, and even though you don’t have to agree, I give the white Sox a much better chance of those first two games were at home. 

I think the marginal difference between Leury & Romy isn’t all that much as I don’t believe Leury is a 2 win player going forward.  As such, I’d rather sign a $4M reliever and not hand someone like Ryan Burr a major league job.

[Chicago White Sox]

51 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

I'd rather sign Leury to be the 2B starter, than a lot of these trades and trade targets bandied about.
 

Which ones?

[kleedawg]

2 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

I get why people are insisting the division will be pushovers, but I do think we need to have some caution in that. First of all, Detroit will likely spend some money. Second, Minnesota could as well, and although they crumbled this year, if they landed a Rodon and a couple of relievers that could be a place for a rapid turnaround. Third, it is possible the CBA could force Cleveland and KC to spend more - a minimum payroll would do that. 

Second and a bigger one - talent doesn’t always equal record. Last year Seattle outplayed their Pythagorean record by 14 wins and that was after trading away their closer. Had Cleveland done that, the White Sox miss the playoffs. In 2019 the Brewers outplayed their by 8, the 2018 Mariners outplayed theirs by 12. I believe it was 07 when the Diamondbacks made the World Series with a negative regular season run differential? Point being, don’t count out teams just because you have a talent advantage, some randomness is guaranteed.

Finally, 2 wins last year earns home field advantage, and even though you don’t have to agree, I give the white Sox a much better chance of those first two games were at home. 

The Sox will clearly be the the favorites to win the central again, but I would not assume it would be a cakewalk. Key injuries can derail a season fast. Also, Cleveland can run out 6 legit starting pitchers and 1 of the better bullpens. They are starting to put some nice good young players around Jose Ramirez. They can be quite the thorn in any contenders side especially if things break well for them. K.C. and Detroit should be better. Minnesota can hit but their pitching is currently in a shambles.

[beck72]

6 hours ago, CentralChamps21 said:

I think so too. Unless some team thinks his improved 2021 offense is a trend, sees him as a starter and offers him starter money, he's going to get similar offers from everybody interested and I don't see why he would leave the place he's been for such a long time.

If Leury gets a better offer he will sign elsewhere. But the Sox need a guy like him to play at multiple spots. The Sox may match depending on the offer. 

[ron883]

22 minutes ago, beck72 said:

If Leury gets a better offer he will sign elsewhere. But the Sox need a guy like him to play at multiple spots. The Sox may match depending on the offer. 

Romy Gonzalez could very well take his spot. 

[GreenSox]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

Look I get that Leury hit a big homer in the playoffs and had a fairly decent season, but let's not forget his history.  He's got a pretty good history of missing periods of time due to injury, and even in his career year, he put up an OPS+ of 96.  He's a great tool to have off of the bench, but if he is a starer for you, you are already looking to replace him and upgrade.

It's not that I think Leury's particularly good; it's just that I think trading for Segura or, even worse, Merrifield, would just be ridiculous.    I think there may be temptation there, as they are on 2 year contracts, a window Hahn seems to favor.

I think the FA 2B are much more interesting than the FA RFs, so signing one of those guys would be my preference.

As for OF, I think Sheets/Vaugh will hit; and as for D, I'd like to upgrade LF as well.  I also think there would be trade targets for OF, including some players on their ascendancy and possibly a young player for young player trade.

Edited November 10, 2021 by GreenSox

[Tony]

3 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

It's not that I think Leury's particularly good; it's just that I think trading for Segura or, even worse, Merrifield, would just be ridiculous.    I think there may be temptation there, as they are on 2 year contracts, a window Hahn seems to favor.

I think the FA 2B are much more interesting than the FA RFs, so signing one of those guys would be my preference.

As for OF, I think Sheets/Vaugh will hit; and as for D, I'd like to upgrade LF as well.  I also think there would be trade targets for OF, including some players on their ascendancy and possibly a young player for young player trade.

Can you get a little more specific on what you would do if you were Hahn this offseason? I'm genuinely curious. Who are players you would target for the ML roster? Who are you trading? What does your lineup look like? 

[Bob Sacamano]

10 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

It's not that I think Leury's particularly good; it's just that I think trading for Segura or, even worse, Merrifield, would just be ridiculous.    I think there may be temptation there, as they are on 2 year contracts, a window Hahn seems to favor.

I think the FA 2B are much more interesting than the FA RFs, so signing one of those guys would be my preference.

As for OF, I think Sheets/Vaugh will hit; and as for D, I'd like to upgrade LF as well.  I also think there would be trade targets for OF, including some players on their ascendancy and possibly a young player for young player trade.

Segura is still a solid player. I’m more afraid they will end up with Didi (or another 1-2 year bad salary) in a deal for Kimbrel where it doesn’t make sense.

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, GreenSox said:

It's not that I think Leury's particularly good; it's just that I think trading for Segura or, even worse, Merrifield, would just be ridiculous.    I think there may be temptation there, as they are on 2 year contracts, a window Hahn seems to favor.

I think the FA 2B are much more interesting than the FA RFs, so signing one of those guys would be my preference.

As for OF, I think Sheets/Vaugh will hit; and as for D, I'd like to upgrade LF as well.  I also think there would be trade targets for OF, including some players on their ascendancy and possibly a young player for young player trade.

I can't see them trading for a 2B unless it is a minor deal.  There are plenty of FAs there.  I think trades go to RF, SP, or RP.

[beck72]

5 hours ago, ron883 said:

Romy Gonzalez could very well take his spot. 

He could. But Leury really showed that being a back up is very valuable. The kind of versatility Leury provides usually take up two  2 roster spots.