I think the general rule of thumb for ST is that if you see nobodies performing like they're Mike Trout, it doesn't mean anything. 

But if an older pitcher like Kimbrel's stuff looks terrible and he gets hit around, it's a very bad sign. I remember Halladay looked awful in the Spring of 2013 and then he went on to retire that year. 

Kimbrel trade is horrific, but probably only Hahn’s 3rd worst after Shields and Smardzija

 

3 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Or it could mean it's his 1st appearance of the spring ? Looking for a silver lining.

FWIW, Kimbrel never had velocity issues when he was bad with the Cubs. He had a lot of control issues. Now he has velocity and control issues...

Just now, chw42 said:

FWIW, Kimbrel never had velocity issues when he was bad with the Cubs. He had a lot of control issues. Now he has velocity and control issues...

Well, he also got the adrenaline from being a closer.  It’s everyone’s fault this is such a disaster.

3 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said:

I believe he was a huuuuge spin rate decliner after the sticky stuff crackdown, right? Maybe he's the last pitcher to realize pitchers can start using it again

I mean he was still really good with the Cubs after the crackdown, no? There was about a 5 week gap between the crackdown and when he got traded. 

11 minutes ago, chw42 said:

Since this isn't on TV, I can't really tell if Kimbrel looks any different than he did last year, but the box score sure doesn't help!

I'm sure he's still doing that silly batman shit.

4 minutes ago, Whisox05 said:

 

So Popeye's throwing issues aren't fixed either then, huh? what an absolute nightmare this inning was

4 minutes ago, fathom said:

Well, he also got the adrenaline from being a closer.  It’s everyone’s fault this is such a disaster.

Didn't he lose his closer job in 2020? He was still averaging 97 on his fastball that year. 

7 minutes ago, Timmy U said:

Kimbrel trade is horrific, but probably only Hahn’s 3rd worst after Shields and Smardzija

At least he’s learning, right?

Hopefully other teams without any emotional investment in Kimbrel's meltdowns are feeling this way too. Results i can see being dismissed, but I think his stuff being down is absolutely going to affect his trade value, right? how could it not?

19 minutes ago, bmags said:

Our $16M MRP

If he’s on the roster Opening Day, they fucked up.

Just now, maxjusttyped said:

Hopefully other teams without any emotional investment in Kimbrel's meltdowns are feeling this way too. Results i can see being dismissed, but I think his stuff being down is absolutely going to affect his trade value, right? how could it not?

James might be correct, but I guarantee teams interested in him would have rather seen him at 96-97

1 minute ago, fathom said:

James might be correct, but I guarantee teams interested in him would have rather seen him at 96-97

Maybe this is unreasonable, but I've thought just having him throw bullpens and then sending his pitch data to other teams might have been the way to go about dealing him

8 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said:

I believe he was a huuuuge spin rate decliner after the sticky stuff crackdown, right? Maybe he's the last pitcher to realize pitchers can start using it again

I looked this up. Between 6/21 and 7/30, he pitched 7.1 innings, gave up 0 runs, had a 0.72 FIP, 18.4 K/9,  and 4.9 BB/9. His BB/9 in this period of time was 2 higher than his BB/9 in his innings before the ban, but his K/9 was also 3 higher. Could just be SSS variance. Either way, the results didn't seem to be affected much until he got to the Sox. 

I also looked at his spin rates around that time. He did throw with a little higher spin (like 50 RPMs on average) before the crackdown, but nothing too drastic. 

7 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said:

Hopefully other teams without any emotional investment in Kimbrel's meltdowns are feeling this way too. Results i can see being dismissed, but I think his stuff being down is absolutely going to affect his trade value, right? how could it not?

James ^^^

2 minutes ago, Big Hurtin said:

James ^^^

You're doing Ray Ray's job for him. 

Something involving Kimbrel sucking and James? You'd think he would be in here like the Flash. 

15 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said:

Hopefully other teams without any emotional investment in Kimbrel's meltdowns are feeling this way too. Results i can see being dismissed, but I think his stuff being down is absolutely going to affect his trade value, right? how could it not?

I have watched very little Spring Training.  How has the velocity been for other pitchers?  Because I'm genuninely worried that with the lockout going on so long, pitchers aren't reaching full strength till May.

5 minutes ago, Colome's Hat said:

I have watched very little Spring Training.  How has the velocity been for other pitchers?  Because I'm genuninely worried that with the lockout going on so long, pitchers aren't reaching full strength till May.

I've heard Lucas was sitting around 95 and can get up to 97. Not sure where Lynn's at, but seeing how he pitched today and knowing him, he's probably not ready yet. Kimbrel looks like he should be throwing side sessions with Kelly. Either his arm strength isn't there or his mechanics are so out of whack that he's losing a ton of velocity on his fastball. 

Edited March 23, 20224 yr by chw42

38 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Or it could mean it's his 1st appearance of the spring ? Looking for a silver lining.

Maybe the Japanese or Korean leagues would overpay the Sox for a future HoFer?

If a dude comes out at 93-94 on his first ST outing he's doing just fine.  If he's still throwing 93 come Apr 10th, then you can be concerned. 

 

Kimbrel doesn't seem too concerned.

21 minutes ago, chw42 said:

I've heard Lucas was sitting around 95 and can get up to 97. Not sure where Lynn's at, but seeing how he pitched today and knowing him, he's probably not ready yet. Kimbrel looks like he should be throwing side sessions with Kelly. Either his arm strength isn't there or his mechanics are so out of whack that he's losing a ton of velocity on his fastball. 

Gio was 95/96 according the broadcast, but they didn't show speeds on the screen.

1 hour ago, fathom said:

Well, he also got the adrenaline from being a closer.  It’s everyone’s fault this is such a disaster.

Basically any pitcher who sucks in the 8th could be an All Star closer, he just needs more pressure. 

Rangers are scoring so fast my phone can't update fast enough.