2 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

So you knew Politte and Cotts were going to have career years. That Dustin Hermanson would be nails until he couldn't pitch, but the minor leaguer they would get on waivers could and would save the day. That the Contreras with the mid 5's ERA that the Yankees dumped, only to have him pitch the same with the White Sox in 2004 would become an ace. That the 4.89 ERA for Garland in 2004 was all the sign you needed to know he was a championship quality rotation piece, and that the who has any idea how old El Duque would overcome his 2004 injuries and be a solid #5.  You knew that even though he was non tendered by SF, that AJP was just what every team needed. You knew that Iguchi wasn't going to be Kaz Matsui. And knew that Jermaine Dye's cumulative -0.2 WAR for the 2002-2004 seasons was WS MVP stuff.

How is it teams aren't offering you 8 figures a year to make them champions?

That team had amazing performances out of a lot of guys who couldn't have been expected to be that good, and amazing health. Used only 6 pitchers to start games the entire season. I know it tied a record then. I don't think anyone has come close since.

A great reminder that things need to go right in a lot of areas to win the WS.  Dye was a cast-off with poor defensive credentials that became World Series MVP.  Our pitchers performed beyond anyone's expectations.  I wonder if Vaughn could be this year's Dye.  As the saying goes...that's why they play the games.

2 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

So you knew Politte and Cotts were going to have career years. That Dustin Hermanson would be nails until he couldn't pitch, but the minor leaguer they would get on waivers could and would save the day. That the Contreras with the mid 5's ERA that the Yankees dumped, only to have him pitch the same with the White Sox in 2004 would become an ace. That the 4.89 ERA for Garland in 2004 was all the sign you needed to know he was a championship quality rotation piece, and that the who has any idea how old El Duque would overcome his 2004 injuries and be a solid #5.  You knew that even though he was non tendered by SF, that AJP was just what every team needed. You knew that Iguchi wasn't going to be Kaz Matsui. And knew that Jermaine Dye's cumulative -0.2 WAR for the 2002-2004 seasons was WS MVP stuff.

How is it teams aren't offering you 8 figures a year to make them champions?

That team had amazing performances out of a lot of guys who couldn't have been expected to be that good, and amazing health. Used only 6 pitchers to start games the entire season. I know it tied a record then. I don't think anyone has come close since.

The 2012 Reds used 6 starters. 161 starts by 5 guys.

The 2012 Giants used 7 starters. 160 starts by 5 guys. 

9 hours ago, SoxSteve said:

And please don’t waste your time bringing up Conforto. He hit 232 last year and is a 255 career hitter. I’ll take my chances with Vaughn and sheets. 

Batting average is borderline irrelevant.  Career wRC+ of 124.  Absolutely rakes against RHP which is a clear Sox weakness.  Career OBP of .356!!!!!  Bats left handed.  All signing Conforto does is move Vaughn to DH/LF with Eloy and puts Sheets in AAA as insurance where he belongs. 

8 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Batting average is borderline irrelevant.  Career wRC+ of 124.  Absolutely rakes against RHP which is a clear Sox weakness.  Career OBP of .356!!!!!  Bats left handed.  All signing Conforto does is move Vaughn to DH/LF with Eloy and puts Sheets in AAA as insurance where he belongs. 

Really not hard to figure out the appeal, but here we are. 

4 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

Really not hard to figure out the appeal, but here we are. 

I mean, I guess I get the angle of wanting Vaughn and sheets to play.  I want Vaughn to play alot, and I think he will.  But we're 1 injury away from either Leury being the everyday RF or Jake Burger being the everyday DH.    Gavin Sheets still has 2 option years.  He doesn't have to be in the everyday lineup.  Even if they were to sign Conforto, he'll get 350+ PA this season. 

People making this stand that Conforto is a bad player is just straight up comical.  

1 hour ago, Dick Allen said:

Not saying that at all, just challenging Balta's claim that he knew the 2005 White Sox had a great offseason are were ready for a championship. Gio/Lynn are the equivalent of Buehrle/Garcia coming into the season. Cease is at least what Garland was. Kopech is at least what you thought you could get out of El Duque, and Kuechels 2021 ERA is similar to Contreras' ERA in 2004. Only Balta knew what Contreras was about to become. The bullpen is much deeper projection-wise. Hermanson, Politte, Cotts....did you see their careers before 2001? Vizcaino, Marte were alright, but before the season started in 2005, on paper, this staff blows that one out of the water, as does the line up. I think they needed to do more things this year, because almost everything going right hardly ever happens, but on paper, the 2022 Opening Day White Sox destroy the on paper 2005 Opening Day White Sox.

What’s actually interesting about these bullpens is that the old strategy - taking starters who were struggling and converting them (Cotts, Hermanson, Jenks,  Thornton, VV?) or finding relievers who were good but undervalued based on luck (Politte, Swarzak) and getting one or two good seasons out of those guys has been way more effective than paying big money for relievers based on their previous year.

7 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

What’s actually interesting about these bullpens is that the old strategy - taking starters who were struggling and converting them (Cotts, Hermanson, Jenks,  Thornton, VV?) or finding relievers who were good but undervalued based on luck (Politte, Swarzak) and getting one or two good seasons out of those guys has been way more effective than paying big money for relievers based on their previous year.

Then how come you aren't drooling over Valasquez?

yikes I only read thread title but this is embarrassing.

10 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

What’s actually interesting about these bullpens is that the old strategy - taking starters who were struggling and converting them (Cotts, Hermanson, Jenks,  Thornton, VV?) or finding relievers who were good but undervalued based on luck (Politte, Swarzak) and getting one or two good seasons out of those guys has been way more effective than paying big money for relievers based on their previous year.

Vizcaino.  Marte was already beginning to fade then, but was Thornton Vers.1 for the Sox.

1 minute ago, bmags said:

yikes I only read thread title but this is embarrassing.

Hahn should be embarrassed.  

4 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Then how come you aren't drooling over Valasquez?

Quote

For at least a month this year, Reynaldo Lopez is the White Sox’s best starter and Velasquez is their best setup man.

4 AL Central teams finish above .500. 3 make the playoffs.

Jake Burger gets 50 starts at 2b.

Zack Collins is the White Sox’s starting catcher in the playoffs.

The White Sox are in the top 3 teams for games lost to the IL.

Because you are deciding what I believe without reading my posts. I even included him in the one you replied to.

1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:

Hahn should be embarrassed.  

When someone is being embarrassed my policy is not to volunteer myself to also be embarrassed. It's not a finite resource.

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

Because you are deciding what I believe without reading my posts. I even included him in the one you replied to.

But this is where you are safe. If he sucks, it's nothing on you, but RH, KW, JR get heat. If it actually was your job, and your job was on the line if things didn't work out, you wouldn't really think that. You throw it out there so if somehow it comes true, you'll go back and show us, but if the reality is, these guys are what they are, no one ever sees it again.

Who are some of the other cheap failed starters you would have had make up the Sox bullpen? 

https://www.sfgate.com/athletics/article/Why-latest-Oakland-A-s-teardown-is-team-s-worst-17012659.php
 

Well, yeah…there’s this.  We could be A’s fans.  Not sure how they will feel in the end when the team relocates to Vegas, but brutal brutal brutal to read this as a baseball fan.

Just now, Dick Allen said:

But this is where you are safe. If he sucks, it's nothing on you, but RH, KW, JR get heat. If it actually was your job, and your job was on the line if things didn't work out, you wouldn't really think that. You throw it out there so if somehow it comes true, you'll go back and show us, but if the reality is, these guys are what they are, no one ever sees it again.

Who are some of the other cheap failed starters you would have had make up the Sox bullpen? 

Yes. If he sucks they get heat. After all, that happens in this organization. People are evaluated based on their performance. Constantly. No one is laughing at that concept, I promise.

Just now, Dick Allen said:

But this is where you are safe. If he sucks, it's nothing on you, but RH, KW, JR get heat. If it actually was your job, and your job was on the line if things didn't work out, you wouldn't really think that. You throw it out there so if somehow it comes true, you'll go back and show us, but if the reality is, these guys are what they are, no one ever sees it again.

Who are some of the other cheap failed starters you would have had make up the Sox bullpen? 

The problem is that it hasn’t really seemed like anyone in the front office’s actual job has been in jeopardy, even now…for example, if the Sox somehow missed the post-season, nothing would change because “they wouldn’t want to change horses in the middle of the race.”

11 minutes ago, bmags said:

yikes I only read thread title but this is embarrassing.

I wish the Sox had a better off-season for on forum and off forum reasons. Going to be more like this coming if squad gets off to a sluggish start.

Just now, chitownsportsfan said:

I wish the Sox had a better off-season for on forum and off forum reasons. Going to be more like this coming if squad gets off to a sluggish start.

Probably, but the only thing that will gut me at this point is if I can't watch Robert consistently in CF. 

6 minutes ago, bmags said:

Probably, but the only thing that will gut me at this point is if I can't watch Robert consistently in CF. 

Well, there you go.  One thing we can agree wholeheartedly upon.  
 

Not even going to bother going after TLR this year, he’s simply too easy to target or scapegoat.

Does anyone have Hahn's email address?  I would like to send him an email demanding Reifert and Boyer's terminations.  Makes about as much sense as the OP.

5 minutes ago, ThirdGen said:

Does anyone have Hahn's email address?  I would like to send him an email demanding Reifert and Boyer's terminations.  Makes about as much sense as the OP.

He doesn’t have the authority to make those calls.

 

But here’s a more germane question…which MLB GM’s do you currently believe that Rick Hahn is (clearly or arguably, if you prefer) better than, and why?

AZ?   Pitt?   Baltimore?  Hoyer?  Cincy?  Preller?  Perry Minasian/Angels?  Colorado?  Philly/Dombrowski?  

Pretty hard to blame the Oakland GM for “Major Leaguing” that roster…they’ve been amazing since their biggest FA deal is $30 million and never higher than #22 payroll.

 

Edited March 24, 20223 yr by caulfield12

10 hours ago, ron883 said:

1. All White Sox and Bulls games will be illegally streamed. Not paying for any cable or subscriptions in order to watch the games

 2. Attending Cubs games instead of Sox games. Instead of simply not giving Jerry my money, I'm going to spend it on the other baseball team in the city. 

I commend you sticking to your ideals.

3 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

So you knew Politte and Cotts were going to have career years. That Dustin Hermanson would be nails until he couldn't pitch, but the minor leaguer they would get on waivers could and would save the day. That the Contreras with the mid 5's ERA that the Yankees dumped, only to have him pitch the same with the White Sox in 2004 would become an ace. That the 4.89 ERA for Garland in 2004 was all the sign you needed to know he was a championship quality rotation piece, and that the who has any idea how old El Duque would overcome his 2004 injuries and be a solid #5.  You knew that even though he was non tendered by SF, that AJP was just what every team needed. You knew that Iguchi wasn't going to be Kaz Matsui. And knew that Jermaine Dye's cumulative -0.2 WAR for the 2002-2004 seasons was WS MVP stuff.

How is it teams aren't offering you 8 figures a year to make them champions?

That team had amazing performances out of a lot of guys who couldn't have been expected to be that good, and amazing health. Used only 6 pitchers to start games the entire season. I know it tied a record then. I don't think anyone has come close since.

This was my first thought. As I recall, even KW hadn't seen him live. They signed him based on video alone. No one knew what they had in him.

14 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

He doesn’t have the authority to make those calls.

 

But here’s a more germane question…which MLB GM’s do you currently believe that Rick Hahn is (clearly or arguably, if you prefer) better than, and why?

AZ?   Pitt?   Baltimore?  Hoyer?  Cincy?  Preller?  Perry Minasian/Angels?  Colorado?  Philly/Dombrowski?  

Pretty hard to blame the Oakland GM for “Major Leaguing” that roster…they’ve been amazing since their biggest FA deal is $30 million and never higher than #22 payroll.

 

That's kind of my point- regardless of how we feel about Hahn, sending emails to marketing and communications guys demanding a change in GM is insane.  They don't have the authority to make those calls, any more than they had the ability to stop the PR hit from the TLR hiring.

Opening day is two weeks off.  The trade deadline is four months off.  If he doesn't fill the SP and LH RF issues, and it causes the Sox to crash and burn again in the playoffs or regular season, judge Hahn then.  But don't fire him two weeks into spring training because Sox fans need instant gratification.  There are probably 25 teams I wouldn't trade the team Hahn has built from the ground up for at this point, and I can only name one team that doesn't have at least one legitimate hole or question mark in the starting lineup, bullpen or rotation at this point.