4 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

This isn't true. Nobody with the Sox really even saw Tatis playing in games. He was in DSL and on back fields in Arizona mostly. Paddy liked him but he was never projected to be anything close to this. He was like the 28th ranked international prospect in his class. 

It''s almost like you're saying Preller got lucky asking for some obscure prospect when in reality his bloodline meant something and theirs scout probably liked him a lot.

Maybe, just maybe, it's better to be cautious when another GM tries take someone that Paddy signed with MLB bloodlines without giving that player a chance to show what he's capable of in professional ball in the states.

Just now, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

It''s almost like you're saying Preller got lucky asking for some obscure prospect when in reality his bloodline meant something and theirs scout probably liked him a lot.

Maybe, just maybe, it's better to be cautious when another GM tries take someone that Paddy signed with MLB bloodlines without giving that player a chance to show what he's capable of in professional ball in the states.

AJ Preller is a wild man. He definitely deserves praise for that deal. He nailed it. When you're Rick Hahn though and you aren't trading top prospect Tim Anderson and Ken Williams and Jerry Reinsdorf insist on acquiring James Shields to bolster the rotation, trading a guy that appeared to be 3-4 years away if anything at all seems like pretty much the only option. The White Sox got murdered on that deal but when you run the team the way it was run then, I'm stunned it didn't happen more often. 

13 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

This isn't true. Nobody with the Sox really even saw Tatis playing in games. He was in DSL and on back fields in Arizona mostly. Paddy liked him but he was never projected to be anything close to this. He was like the 28th ranked international prospect in his class. 

And yet by January, 6 months later, this prospect no one had ever seen,  was top 50.  Add to that that, the international guru, Preller, just happened to be the guy to get a hold of him. Lucky guess by Preller.
 

Edited July 27, 20223 yr by GreenSox

Just now, Y2Jimmy0 said:

AJ Preller is a wild man. He definitely deserves praise for that deal. He nailed it. When you're Rick Hahn though and you aren't trading top prospect Tim Anderson and Ken Williams and Jerry Reinsdorf insist on acquiring James Shields to bolster the rotation, trading a guy that appeared to be 3-4 years away if anything at all seems like pretty much the only option. The White Sox got murdered on that deal but when you run the team the way it was run then, I'm stunned it didn't happen more often. 

Is this true? I guess it could be, as reading between the lines it seems like Hahn didn't get what he wanted until Shields failed here and it was clear that core wasn't going anywhere.

1 minute ago, GreenSox said:

And yet by January, 6 months later, this prospect no one had ever seen,  was top 50.  Add to that that, the international guru, Preller, just happened to be the guy to get a hold of him.
 

Keys to being a good GM:

• Don't trade your non-top prospects with Tampa Bay
• Watch which AAAA players San Francisco is interested in
• Don't trade young international prospects with Preller

3 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

And yet by January, 6 months later, this prospect no one had ever seen,  was top 50.  Add to that that, the international guru, Preller, just happened to be the guy to get a hold of him. Lucky guess by Preller.
 

Preller is a savage. Scouting back fields himself as a GM. It was a great get by them. Law put him in the top 100 based on some AZ scouts after he played games in Arizona and then he exploded. He didn't even play in games here 

5 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

Preller is a savage. Scouting back fields himself as a GM. 

Exactly.  Imagine that.

9 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

AJ Preller is a wild man. He definitely deserves praise for that deal. He nailed it. When you're Rick Hahn though and you aren't trading top prospect Tim Anderson and Ken Williams and Jerry Reinsdorf insist on acquiring James Shields to bolster the rotation, trading a guy that appeared to be 3-4 years away if anything at all seems like pretty much the only option. The White Sox got murdered on that deal but when you run the team the way it was run then, I'm stunned it didn't happen more often. 

Not just a wild man but him or scouts or the whole team identified middle of the diamond players as having the most value way before anyone in the Sox organization did.

7 minutes ago, almagest said:

Keys to being a good GM:

• Don't trade your non-top prospects with Tampa Bay
• Watch which AAAA players San Francisco is interested in
• Don't trade young international prospects with Preller

In our case, 2 out of 3 IS bad.

13 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

Preller is a savage. Scouting back fields himself as a GM. It was a great get by them. Law put him in the top 100 based on some AZ scouts after he played games in Arizona and then he exploded. He didn't even play in games here 

You telling me the secret to all this is a left-handed GM?

12 minutes ago, almagest said:

Is this true? I guess it could be, as reading between the lines it seems like Hahn didn't get what he wanted until Shields failed here and it was clear that core wasn't going anywhere.

All acquisitions are run through all the top brass with either verbal or written inputs from scouts and analytics if they even analyze that far down (hopefully). I don't know if Jimmy is privy to who insisted on Shields more but he's certainly talking like he knows that and taking the heat off Hahn.

I've said it the past but it's very possible that he's operating with one hand tied behind his back. But the buck has to stop somewhere and he's the one with the G.M title next to his name.

8 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

In our case, 2 out of 3 IS bad.

it's also bad that tampa isn't interested in our non-top prospects thou

Just now, bmags said:

it's also bad that tampa isn't interested in our non-top prospects thou

Or... maybe they are and the Sox are smart enough to not trade them?

continues heavy drinking

22 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

And yet by January, 6 months later, this prospect no one had ever seen,  was top 50.  Add to that that, the international guru, Preller, just happened to be the guy to get a hold of him. Lucky guess by Preller.
 

If Tatis was such a slam dunk, why didn’t Preller just sign him initially? It only cost $700k to sign him. The irony of that whole deal is that the Padres are now on the hook for possibly one of the worst contracts in MLB history if he can’t stay on the field (Tatis Jr. gets hurt more than Eloy). There’s a word for that: karma

Edited July 27, 20223 yr by JUSTgottaBELIEVE

2 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

All acquisitions are run through all the top brass with either verbal or written inputs from scouts and analytics if they even analyze that far down (hopefully). I don't know if Jimmy is privy to who insisted on Shields more but he's certainly talking like he knows that and taking the heat off Hahn.

I've said it the past but it's very possible that he's operating with one hand tied behind his back. But the buck has to stop somewhere and he's the one with the G.M title next to his name.

If KW and Reinsdorf are able to exert this kind of control and Hahn takes it, he'll never go anywhere until KW leaves and Jerry dies. They'll make sure to keep him around because they know any real GM candidate wouldn't stand for that.

5 minutes ago, bmags said:

it's also bad that tampa isn't interested in our non-top prospects thou

Cleveland has been about the best there is at snaring prospects.  Tampa has traded a lot of good ones away.  The thing to avoid with Tampa is their veterans; Cleveland too.

6 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

If Tatis was such a slam dunk, why didn’t Preller just sign him initially? It only cost $700k to sign him. The irony of that whole deal is that the Padres are now on the hook for possibly one of the worst contracts in MLB history if he can’t stay on the field (Tatis Jr. gets hurt more than Eloy). There’s a word for that: karma

Why don't you do some research on it? Could be they maxed out the Intl. bonus on other guys that they thought more highly of and when he got updated reports on Tatis later he decided to act while the Sox didn't pay attention to updated reports on him or didn't even have updated reports like the Padres did.

1 minute ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Why don't you do some research on it? Could be they maxed out the Intl. bonus on other guys that they thought more highly of and when he got updated reports on Tatis later he decided to act while the Sox didn't pay attention to updated reports on him or didn't even have updated reports like the Padres did.

His signing was prior to the international signing bonus limits

16 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

If Tatis was such a slam dunk, why didn’t Preller just sign him initially? It only cost $700k to sign him. The irony of that whole deal is that the Padres are now on the hook for possibly one of the worst contracts in MLB history if he can’t stay on the field (Tatis Jr. gets hurt more than Eloy). There’s a word for that: karma

I feel like Tatis might go down as one of the great "what ifs" not only for Chicago but also SD. He's not going to be a full time SS whenever he comes back that's for sure. If he's "just" a decent RF his value goes down a couple WAR.

1 minute ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

His signing was prior to the international signing bonus limits

Ok that still doesn't eliminate scouting reports on him from after they passed on him. I'm sure they didn't have unlimited funds to spend on Intl. players and targeted other priorities. As i said Preller identified middle of the diamond players like SS and CF way before the Sox did. It was just a goodG.M and good scouting organization taking advantage of a backwards organization. One advantage the Sox had was Paddy and they have never used him to his full capabilities trading away Itnl. money, signing older guys, pretty much ignoring the Dominican Republic. That's all on Jerry.

54 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

This isn't true. Nobody with the Sox really even saw Tatis playing in games. He was in DSL and on back fields in Arizona mostly. Paddy liked him but he was never projected to be anything close to this. He was like the 28th ranked international prospect in his class. 

I respect you, and you know way more about the Sox minor leagues than I ever will, however, this is not entirely correct. Keith Law wrote a piece when the trade was rumored in which scouts from other organizations opined that, were he draft eligible, Tatis Jr. would be 1-1 and they compared him to A-Rod and Griffey.  Somebody knew he was going to be good.  And if the Sox didn't, well, that's even more damning.

10 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Ok that still doesn't eliminate scouting reports on him from after they passed on him. I'm sure they didn't have unlimited funds to spend on Intl. players and targeted other priorities. As i said Preller identified middle of the diamond players like SS and CF way before the Sox did. It was just a goodG.M and good scouting organization taking advantage of a backwards organization. One advantage the Sox had was Paddy and they have never used him to his full capabilities trading away Itnl. money, signing older guys, pretty much ignoring the Dominican Republic. That's all on Jerry.

My point is it was more luck than skill on the Padres’ part. Regardless, they’re now on the hook for the 4th largest contract in MLB for a player that can’t stay on the field so I guess the joke’s on them.

9 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

My point is it was more luck than skill on the Padres’ part. Regardless, they’re now on the hook for the 4th largest contract in MLB for a player that can’t stay on the field so I guess the joke’s on them.

Tell yourself whatever lets you sleep better at night Rick

22 minutes ago, Timmy U said:

I respect you, and you know way more about the Sox minor leagues than I ever will, however, this is not entirely correct. Keith Law wrote a piece when the trade was rumored in which scouts from other organizations opined that, were he draft eligible, Tatis Jr. would be 1-1 and they compared him to A-Rod and Griffey.  Somebody knew he was going to be good.  And if the Sox didn't, well, that's even more damning.

I thought all the Keith law stuff came after the trade

46 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

All acquisitions are run through all the top brass with either verbal or written inputs from scouts and analytics if they even analyze that far down (hopefully). I don't know if Jimmy is privy to who insisted on Shields more but he's certainly talking like he knows that and taking the heat off Hahn.

I've said it the past but it's very possible that he's operating with one hand tied behind his back. But the buck has to stop somewhere and he's the one with the G.M title next to his name.

He shouldn’t be let off the hook. He did it. Making win now moves with a bad system for a very flawed quasi-contender constantly gets you in trouble though.