2 hours ago, SonofaRoache said:

It's sad, but at this point none of this matters. We don't trade for high impact proven talent and won't spend even 100 million on a quality free agent. Feels like there is no hope to be a consistent winner and like we are wasting our time on this organization. 

Well duh ! ?

3 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Yup, read this and wanted to yell "2023 happened".

You're getting a guy who was an innings-eating mid rotation starter in 2023 and was a Cy Young caliber starter in 2022 hoping you can get him back to the earlier level. 

Not the same thing at all.

?????????????

2 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

He's really dying on the hill. 

Arguing with him is futile.  Cease had a down season and therefore is broken forever and will never rebound. Almighty Balta has spoken.

Emojis and reaction .GIFs are all his Cease diatribes deserve. 

2 hours ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

Cease and Eloy to Reds for:

Jonathan India, Edwin Arroyo, Connor Phillips, Chase Petty, Sal Stewart, and Ricardo Cabrera 

 

Reds keep Marte and Lowder but give up 1/2 of their top 10 for the Sox “haul”

 

Also frees up $ for the Sox to take shots in free agency on guys to flip later for more prospects later.

f*** NO

59 minutes ago, Snowy Demon said:

Any "reasonable" person will trade Santander and Hays over Kjerstad and Cowser.  They have truly blocked prospects such as Norby and to a less degree Ortiz.  I am sure the Orioles will make a trade or two.  Keep in mind that they do not have to make a trade with the White Sox. 

Except neither of those guys are going to bring back anything that fixes their pitching woes. 

59 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I mean, don't get me wrong, there is a fair share of trash.  But a lot of it has been recently acquired.  I think we're pretty much down to Deivi Garcia, Sammy Peralta, Lane Ramsey, Carlos Perez, and  Zach Remillard as legitimate DFA candidates.  I just listed of 5 guys - but its not very hard to squint and see each of those guys playing a role on the 2024 club - especially the relivers, and even Perez as the third catcher. Guessing Peralta and Remillard are next on the chopping block.  

I’d personally have 0 problem adding another 3-4 guys, but that’s a whole different discussion. 
 

But to answer your original question…only 2 of those 6 would need to be on the 40, India and Phillips. None of Arroyo, Petty, Stewart, or Cabrera were drafted/signed before 2021.

9 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

f*** NO

Why would you be so against taking a shot on a change of scenery scenario for India? Crazier things have happened. He doesn’t cost anything salary wise and is far from the highlight of the deal. Just a throw in gamble. 

12 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

Arguing with him is futile.  Cease had a down season and therefore is broken forever and will never rebound. Almighty Balta has spoken.

Emojis and reaction .GIFs are all his Cease diatribes deserve. 

The number of times I say "I would need to see Cease get back to his 2022 form before I'd trade for him" while people ignore it and insist I've said he will never rebound still is amazing to me. But go ahead, continue to make it personal. 

13 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

f*** NO

With all the other names in there, he doesn't look like a main piece to be honest. Subtract him from that offer and it looks like the kind of offer you might receive. I would take him if all 5 of those other pieces were coming with.

5 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

Except neither of those guys are going to bring back anything that fixes their pitching woes. 

Couldn't one of those guys for Bieber be a matchup that works for both teams? Cleveland definitely needs the offensive help.

1 minute ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

Why would you be so against taking a shot on a change of scenery scenario for India? Crazier things have happened. He doesn’t cost anything salary wise and is far from the highlight of the deal. Just a throw in gamble. 

It doesn't accomplish dick for us. 

CIN isn't going to allow him to just be a throw in. They will use that to lower the prospect price and we don't need another average right handed player that will make no meaningful difference in the coming two year dumpster fire in 24 and 25. 

The Mods should block out the phrase Jonathan India since it's arguably worse than a four letter word. 

I was watching MLBN the other day and they were discussing Cease. One of the guys was talking to someone with one of the teams interested. They told him that Cease had the same stuff, but they said they saw a flaw, he wasn’t finishing his pitches. That can mean a million things. They were confident he was easily fixable

20 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

f*** NO

For the f*** of it, that would give you:

Edwin Arroyo: #57 MLBT100, Reds #3

Connor Phillips: 68, 4

Chase Petty: UR, 6

Sal Stewart: UR, 7

Ricardo Cabrera: UR, 8.

2 in the Top 100 and 5 in the top 10 of their prospects. And then Jonathan India.

Edited December 22, 20232 yr by Bob Sacamano

3 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

It doesn't accomplish dick for us. 

CIN isn't going to allow him to just be a throw in. They will use that to lower the prospect price and we don't need another average right handed player that will make no meaningful difference in the coming two year dumpster fire in 24 and 25. 

The Mods should block out the phrase Jonathan India since it's arguably worse than a four letter word. 

I tried to get the word filter to swap Tatis for Voldermort, so don't get your hopes up.

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

I was watching MLBN the other day and they were discussing Cease. One of the guys was talking to someone with one of the teams interested. They told him that Cease had the same stuff, but they said they saw a flaw, he wasn’t finishing his pitches. That can mean a million things. They were confident he was easily fixable

Then where's the Fire Ethan Katz thread? Because fixing things that are easily fixable over a full year seems like a reasonable job for a pitching coach. 

Just now, Balta1701 said:

Then where's the Fire Ethan Katz thread? Because fixing things that are easily fixable over a full year seems like a reasonable job for a pitching coach. 

Maybe he did. He was pretty good his last several starts.

13 minutes ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

Why would you be so against taking a shot on a change of scenery scenario for India? Crazier things have happened. He doesn’t cost anything salary wise and is far from the highlight of the deal. Just a throw in gamble. 

India is just a guy. I fear the Reds would demand more than he's worth and Getz would be dumb enough to take him as a headliner based off his ROY season. There's a large enough sample size since which says his rookie year was the outlier.

6 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Maybe he did. He was pretty good his last several starts.

Then if you believe that, hold onto Cease for a couple months and let him prove it. If he's top 3 in the Cy Young race at the deadline, or even in June, you're going to get the type of bidding war and elite returns people are angry that we're not getting now. Take away the reason for Baltimore's GM to hesitate.

9 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

For the f*** of it, that would give you:

Edwin Arroyo: #57 MLBT100, Reds #3

Connor Phillips: 68, 4

Chase Petty: UR, 6

Sal Stewart: UR, 7

Ricardo Cabrera: UR, 8.

2 in the Top 100 and 5 in the top 10 of their prospects. And then Jonathan India.

If India is a throw in and not seen as a headliner, then I'd do that package. But I doubt Cincy would present any deal where he isn't the headliner, despite all of the evidence that points to him just being a guy.

14 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Couldn't one of those guys for Bieber be a matchup that works for both teams? Cleveland definitely needs the offensive help.

A broken down Bieber is not Dylan Cease.

Just now, Tnetennba said:

India is just a guy. I fear the Reds would demand more than he's worth and Getz would be dumb enough to take him as a headliner based off his ROY season. There's a large enough sample size since which says his rookie year was the outlier.

I’m not arguing any of that. I listed him 1st only because he was the only major leaguer in the deal. The hypothetical deal I posted was 5 of the Reds top 10 prospects….plus India thrown in as a roll of the dice gamble that he could figure it out with a change of scenery. If the Reds value India too much then take him out of the deal, no problem. 

21 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

The number of times I say "I would need to see Cease get back to his 2022 form before I'd trade for him" while people ignore it and insist I've said he will never rebound still is amazing to me. But go ahead, continue to make it personal. 

Which again suggests your valuation process is FY = PY x 1

19 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

The number of times I say "I would need to see Cease get back to his 2022 form before I'd trade for him" while people ignore it and insist I've said he will never rebound still is amazing to me. But go ahead, continue to make it personal. 

You're the one that regularly chimes in with the same "Cease isn't worth that" line of thinking. You've stated your opinion so much that we all know it's a hill you will die on. It isn't personal, but it is your reputation as a poster. Believe me, if I could put you on ignore as to not re-read the same diatribes, I would.

The arguing in this thread has gotten so repetitive. We just need a trade to happen.

17 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I was watching MLBN the other day and they were discussing Cease. One of the guys was talking to someone with one of the teams interested. They told him that Cease had the same stuff, but they said they saw a flaw, he wasn’t finishing his pitches. That can mean a million things. They were confident he was easily fixable

Just because one person said there is a flaw doesn't mean there is. With the varied philosophies of mechanics there are probably 19 others who would disagree with said flaw.