Balta1701 Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 19 minutes ago, cuban_sammiches said: Nobody is saying that. But if Vizquel was not exposed he would be working in MLB in some capacity. Based on the article, that is what he wants to do. And it also appears that he has been completely ostracized. That’s correct, but it’s only worth anything to Vizquel. Does he have an army of PR people helping him? I doubt that. Who actually wants this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 One price of our freedom of speech is allowing folks that we don't like or believe deserve a voice to have a voice. It's the only way to assure that every person who should have a voice, does. I read the article, I don't believe him. Hopefully he had some savings after the confidential settlement so he's not on public aid. I'm glad he's not in a position to abuse anyone and banished from baseball. Media personalities, journalists, etc interview all sorts of undesirable humans. Perhaps it will encourage others who have been, or are currently being, abused to step forward and report the crime. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 2 hours ago, Texsox said: One price of our freedom of speech is allowing folks that we don't like or believe deserve a voice to have a voice. It's the only way to assure that every person who should have a voice, does. I read the article, I don't believe him. Hopefully he had some savings after the confidential settlement so he's not on public aid. I'm glad he's not in a position to abuse anyone and banished from baseball. Media personalities, journalists, etc interview all sorts of undesirable humans. Perhaps it will encourage others who have been, or are currently being, abused to step forward and report the crime. Still has a pretty considerable pension/retirement plan from all his years accrued in MLB one would have to imagine. They haven't stripped that, although they could be garnishing it for the settlement... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 26 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Still has a pretty considerable pension/retirement plan from all his years accrued in MLB one would have to imagine. They haven't stripped that, although they could be garnishing it for the settlement... It's not too me to decide if the settlement was fair, but I'd be happy if he was broke and hungry all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 3 hours ago, Texsox said: One price of our freedom of speech is allowing folks that we don't like or believe deserve a voice to have a voice. It's the only way to assure that every person who should have a voice, does. I read the article, I don't believe him. Hopefully he had some savings after the confidential settlement so he's not on public aid. I'm glad he's not in a position to abuse anyone and banished from baseball. Media personalities, journalists, etc interview all sorts of undesirable humans. Perhaps it will encourage others who have been, or are currently being, abused to step forward and report the crime. Freedom of speech entitles everyone to a profile in USA Today? I want to read yours, when does it come out? 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 2 hours ago, Texsox said: It's not too me to decide if the settlement was fair, but I'd be happy if he was broke and hungry all the time. Certainly a precarious situation in Venezuela if he was to try to earn a living there...would still be more of a crime target due to his fame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 1 minute ago, caulfield12 said: Certainly a precarious situation in Venezuela if he was to try to earn a living there Baseball-Reference shows Vizquel having made $63 million in his career. Is he crying poor, now? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 1 hour ago, WestEddy said: Baseball-Reference shows Vizquel having made $63 million in his career. Is he crying poor, now? No idea...it seems it's more about being considered an outcast from MLB or pariah than anything. Loss of prestige...like Matt Lauer went through. And how to fill up his schedule for the remainder of his lifetime. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 9 hours ago, Balta1701 said: Freedom of speech entitles everyone to a profile in USA Today? I want to read yours, when does it come out? Of course not, but you already know that. I never was the subject of a negative piece on a platform that well distributed. But you did learn something in Texas. Marginalizing voices you don't like by regulating them to obscure platforms does effectively silence them. Let's take people and events we don't like and remove them from textbooks for example. They are still available in other places so that's ok. Let's take those books out of school libraries because they are still available other places. Since my book isn't in that library, their book shouldn't be either. It's a slippery slope you are advocating for. One I'd rather not be a part of. 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 25 minutes ago, Texsox said: Of course not, but you already know that. I never was the subject of a negative piece on a platform that well distributed. But you did learn something in Texas. Marginalizing voices you don't like by regulating them to obscure platforms does effectively silence them. Let's take people and events we don't like and remove them from textbooks for example. They are still available in other places so that's ok. Let's take those books out of school libraries because they are still available other places. Since my book isn't in that library, their book shouldn't be either. It's a slippery slope you are advocating for. One I'd rather not be a part of. I don’t think it’s a slippery slope to silence someone credibly accused of sexual assault by a disabled minor, domestic abuse by his ex, and blackballed by the very league that made him famous. in fact I think that’s totally fine. I don’t need to know about Omar Vizquel for the rest of my life actually 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cuban_sammiches Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 51 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said: I don’t think it’s a slippery slope to silence someone credibly accused of sexual assault by a disabled minor, domestic abuse by his ex, and blackballed by the very league that made him famous. in fact I think that’s totally fine. I don’t need to know about Omar Vizquel for the rest of my life actually Then don't read it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 5 minutes ago, cuban_sammiches said: Then don't read it. Oh don’t you worry about that 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 (edited) 9 hours ago, caulfield12 said: No idea...it seems it's more about being considered an outcast from MLB or pariah than anything. Well, Vizquel being an enduring part of baseball and getting into the HOF would have probably been huge for Venezuelan baseball culture, and an extension of Aparicio, and all that. And the White Sox were certainly trying to help him get to that place. Too bad Vizquel had to be a clown. Vizquel messed all that up, and took himself out an historical place in Venezuelan baseball lore. I don't know how he comes back from that. Nightengale sure ain't the path. And tagging on...He was audacious enough to ask Aparicio to wear #11 with the White Sox, and both Aparicio and the White Sox assented. He had been anointed. Jose Abreu wasn't that presumptuous to ask Miñoso if he could wear #9. Edited January 3 by WestEddy 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 (edited) On 1/1/2024 at 1:08 AM, Balta1701 said: Worth millions to who? Who is this giant Omar Vizquel loving market that is being poorly served right now? It was worth millions to Vizquel on the HOF circuit. The price of his signature just plummeted. (I know, big whoop.) Vizquel was being groomed as an ambassador for the game. He was on some inside managerial track, and would have had lifetime positions with the Guardians or White Sox (most probably the White Sox), doing the glad-handing in the Venezuelan market that Miñoso was called in to do with Cubans. Looking at B-R, it looks like Aparicio is the only Venezuelan in the HOF. Vizquel would have been #2, and Miggy #3. I think that Aparicio and the White Sox letting Vizquel wear #11, with the White Sox on top of that, was a huge anointment. Edited January 3 by WestEddy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREEDY Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 I lived in Lake Point Tower and I'm like 99.9999% certain Omar had a long term side piece posted up down the hall, and this was before any major connections to the Sox and likely to Chicago. So who knows how many homes he was covering the rent for? But this article is complete trash. Jerry is obsessed with the legends of the game and sent Bob down there to write a puff piece and make sure it reported the charges were dropped against his club. Then evidently someone decided that everything Omar said over the course of two hours couldn't be included. So, instead of shelving the article, because there was literally nothing to say, Boob still published... because the main reason for it in the first place was a reminder that the Sox were cleared. Too bad Omar can't tell his story, I'd like to hear it because odds are whatever he did doesn't deserve a life sentence. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 9 hours ago, Kyyle23 said: I don’t think it’s a slippery slope to silence someone credibly accused of sexual assault by a disabled minor, domestic abuse by his ex, and blackballed by the very league that made him famous. in fact I think that’s totally fine. I don’t need to know about Omar Vizquel for the rest of my life actually I don't really need to know anything more as well and certainly is someone who I wouldn't defend. My point is if he has a voice I'm confident that everyone who should have a voice does. I think it also confirms that victims will be listened to and perpetrators punished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 1 hour ago, Texsox said: I don't really need to know anything more as well and certainly is someone who I wouldn't defend. My point is if he has a voice I'm confident that everyone who should have a voice does. I think it also confirms that victims will be listened to and perpetrators punished. I am unimpressed by any punishment that includes friendly profiles in USA Today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 50 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: I am unimpressed by any punishment that includes friendly profiles in USA Today. That seems like two different issues. I object to what seemed like a poorly written, one sided, article. I don't object to there being an article. I'm unimpressed if we consider any article to be the punishment. I think he deserves something far now severe than a nasty article. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 23 minutes ago, Texsox said: That seems like two different issues. I object to what seemed like a poorly written, one sided, article. I don't object to there being an article. I'm unimpressed if we consider any article to be the punishment. I think he deserves something far now severe than a nasty article. You said earlier that this pleasant rehab article confirms “perpetrators will be punished.” That sure seems to disagree with your statement here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 22 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: You said earlier that this pleasant rehab article confirms “perpetrators will be punished.” That sure seems to disagree with your statement here. Not at all. Jail time, fines, banned from baseball are punishments. And I agree it is a poorly written article. It certainly isn't balanced. I don't believe the negative articles that were written should be considered part of his punishment. He deserved a lot more punishment than a negative article. Anyone reading the article can see his life was ruined by what he did. He didn't get away with it like happened for most of history. If Nightingale turned this into a book, you would be at the university wanting it banned from the library, I'd be advocating for not banning. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 39 minutes ago, Texsox said: Not at all. Jail time, fines, banned from baseball are punishments. And I agree it is a poorly written article. It certainly isn't balanced. I don't believe the negative articles that were written should be considered part of his punishment. He deserved a lot more punishment than a negative article. Anyone reading the article can see his life was ruined by what he did. He didn't get away with it like happened for most of history. If Nightingale turned this into a book, you would be at the university wanting it banned from the library, I'd be advocating for not banning. His life was ruined - so he’s bankrupt, the $68 million someone said he earned is gone? From the opening of this article he has a nice house in a tree lined community and multiple PR reps working for him other than just Nightengale. Calling that a ruined life seems like a big exaggeration. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 To summarize 1. The abuser is the type of human I loathe. He used his power and fame to abuse people. I hope there is a special place in hell for people like that. 2. The article is poorly written as an independent journalistic work. It is horribly one sided and annoying and frustrating to read based on #1. Further it is crap like this article that will lead the AI evolution in developing content. 3. I believe adults should have the choice in what they read or don't read and do not support censorship. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 I’m not sure what is censoring Omar? Has he been censored? Seems like the opposite happened. He had his day in court and he settled. Then the league said bye. I don’t know why he is entitled to print his side of the story in that rag mag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 The good thing about free speech is Bob Nightengale is allowed to present a clearly unneeded, one-sided story from Omar’s corrupt perspective while at the same time we can call out Bob for being morally bankrupt for publishing in the first place. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 This thread really devolved into worrying that an abuser is being silenced? Really? What The f*** Also, Freedom of Speech is a protection from the government silencing individuals, not a protection from the consequences of one’s own actions. Nor from society or an industry shunning an abuser. Visquel deserves to be buried in obscurity, never to work in baseball again. If you’re concerned that an abuser is being silenced or censored, that says way more about you than it is any sort of indictment of society. If that is you, maybe stop worrying about a former baseball player failing from grace and get to work on yourself. For fucks sake. /rant 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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