1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

Duvall just signed for the same $3M as Pillar too.  Woof.

Now I am sure he'd rather play for the Braves than the Sox, but even the minor moves just don't look good at all.  

Willing to let this thing play out a bit before jumping to major conclusions, but its just ugly. 

Duvall hits for power….that’s a no-no under this regime 

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Never. You're not salvaging value with him as a reliever. 

Run him into the ground. 

If he comes out as a reliever, picks up an extra few mph, and gets comfortable by the deadline, perhaps he could still be movable by then?

I can't get bent out of shape about this with how he's looked in the spring, it looks like nothing has changed. 

3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Maybe, but none of them can. The sox are starting fedde on opening day. He was the worst starter on a near 100 loss nats team a couple years ago. I struggle to see how a move to the bullpen fixes his issues. He doesn't even have an elite put out secondary at this point. 

I struggle to see how him getting his ass kicked for 3.1 innings every 5 days does anything either.

5 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Duvall just signed for the same $3M as Pillar too.  Woof.

Now I am sure he'd rather play for the Braves than the Sox, but even the minor moves just don't look good at all.  

Willing to let this thing play out a bit before jumping to major conclusions, but it’s just ugly. 

So awful.  Duvall is so much better than Pillar.

Don’t forget Randall Grichuk for $2 million.

Also, Amed Rosario for $1.5 million, while Nicky Lopez is being paid $4.3 million.

Edited March 14, 20242 yr by WhiteSox2023

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

I struggle to see how him getting his ass kicked for 3.1 innings every 5 days does anything either.

Give him a shot at least, and then move him to reliever in May if it’s going bad.  If he can be a solid reliever, plenty of time to build some trade value.

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

I struggle to see how him getting his ass kicked for 3.1 innings every 5 days does anything either.

Because while he doesn't have an elite secondary he does have a decent 3 pitch mix and it's just as likely, imo, that he figures it out as a starter as he does as a reliever.

Maybe the move helps the guy although I seriously doubt it. 

Just now, fathom said:

Give him a shot at least, and then move him to reliever in May if it’s going bad.  If he can be a solid reliever, plenty of time to build some trade value.

He's had shot after shot after shot.

Just now, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Because while he doesn't have an elite secondary he does have a decent 3 pitch mix and it's just as likely, imo, that he figures it out as a starter as he does as a reliever.

He does a lot of things wrong that make me think he will be a terrible reliever.   Bad command and not being able to hold runners is a bad combo for a reliever.

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

He's had shot after shot after shot.

With Bannister overseeing him?  As someone said earlier, Bannister literally said he was his biggest area of focus.

Just now, fathom said:

With Bannister overseeing him?  As someone said earlier, Bannister literally said he was his biggest area of focus.

And yet here we are.  Reading between the lines and completely guessing?  They have been telling Kopech what to do for years and he doesn't.  This happened last year, and already in a months time under new eyes it happened again.  There is more to this than we know.  Knowing Kopechs history and mixing that in makes this add up pretty clearly.

Kopech has always been his own worst enemy. Why make this move now? Because he has sucked this spring after sucking last year and can't mentally handle being a starter. Perhaps he gains some confidence in the pen. Probably not. But they want to seemingly award guys this spring for being competitive and if that's true then they can't let him continue to be a starter.

At some point you have to have some pride and make the guy earn a spot in the starting rotation. I'm cool with this.

1 minute ago, Bonerko4Konerko said:

Kopech has always been his own worst enemy. Why make this move now? Because he has sucked this spring after sucking last year and can't mentally handle being a starter. Perhaps he gains some confidence in the pen. Probably not. But they want to seemingly award guys this spring for being competitive and if that's true then they can't let him continue to be a starter.

How many sox fans are gonna parrot that laughable competition talking point?

This isn't college. As much as the sox want to make this about effort in spring, the game is about talent. Only people with no talent tie their identities to this narrative of competing for a spot.

Well, he said today he’s still trying to get fully recovered and comfortable from offseason leg surgery.  It’s always something with him.

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

How many sox fans are gonna parrot that laughable competition talking point?

This isn't college. As much as the sox want to make this about effort in spring, the game is about talent. Only people with no talent tie their identities to this narrative of competing for a spot.

Yeah, the game is about talent and Kopech does not have the talent to be a starter. Also, I said seemingly about the competition aspect.

Clevenger signing makes perfect sense.  We need innings.  He will provide fine innings and maybe if he is good you can deal him for a flier. 

35 minutes ago, fathom said:

Not so fast my friend 

 

This has to be leverage with Lorenzen.  Why bring back a douche who you were unable to trade last year despite pitching well?  My guess is Lorenzen is signed in the next 24 hours.

Just now, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Clevenger signing makes perfect sense.  We need innings.  He will provide fine innings and maybe if he is good you can deal him for a flier. 

We couldn’t deal him last year though

12 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Never. You're not salvaging value with him as a reliever. 

Run him into the ground. 

Big league bullpens are full of guys who failed as starters who became closers. Just off the top of my head of Sox / ex-Sox guys, I can think of ReyLo, Hendriks, Jenks, Colome.

Kopech has shown he can't be counted on to be a starter. He's got talent (read: "stuff"), and it seems like he'd be able to be an effective bullpen arm.

Just now, Chicago White Sox said:

We couldn’t deal him last year though

He had a 4million buy out. So someone trading for him would have to take his remaining contract for the final 3 months AND the 4 million option. He wasn't THAT good to take that on.

Edited March 14, 20242 yr by Squirmin' for Yermin

Kopech's FIP last year was more than a point higher than that of Touki Toussaint, Jose Urena, Jesse Scholtens, and Lance Lynn.

In short he was awful, and must have been in competition for the worst starting pitcher in all of baseball.

4 minutes ago, Bonerko4Konerko said:

Yeah, the game is about talent and Kopech does not have the talent to be a starter. Also, I said seemingly about the competition aspect.

Oh he has the talent.  I believe the phrase is million dollar arm, ten cent head.

I wonder if the Sox have just had enough of Kopech. They've given him every opportunity to right the ship and he refuses to attack hitters.

25 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

It's about what I expected. Making changes just to say you did. This team should be trying to maximize tail outcomes to get some unexpected value. Kopech being a closer adds no value to this team and not much value, if any, in a trade.

While I’d certainly prefer giving Kopech one last chance as a starter, he has enormous value as a closer if he can replicate his 2021 season.