15 minutes ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

No the issue is his control, which from my understanding isn't normally an issue. Seems like nerves.

his last start, he gave up three hits which were all fastballs (two 4-seam, one cutter). The four-seams were in the same place, right down the middle, crushed for doubles, whereas the cutter was below the zone and just a nice hit. 

looking at his statcast chart for this start, four of the six hits he gave up were 4 seam fastballs in the zone. half his pitches were 4 seamers for some reason and he only generated one swing and miss.

very different than his last start where he relied on his changeup, so yes control was clearly an issue (5 walks). but it seems to me that if he can't control his changeup, he's totally useless. even if he can, if I'm a hitter facing him, I'm only sitting on a fastball (and striking out because I'm terrible but you get the point). 

3 minutes ago, Timmy U said:

I feel for Kuhl and his wife, but he was never particularly good. What the Sox were thinking when they added him to the 40 man, I do not know. He'll probably have to wear it today, which is unfortunate.

Why dude is getting a MLB paycheck that he never would have gotten with another team.

 

4 minutes ago, nrockway said:

his last start, he gave up three hits which were all fastballs (two 4-seam, one cutter). The four-seams were in the same place, right down the middle, crushed for doubles, whereas the cutter was below the zone and just a nice hit. 

looking at his statcast chart for this start, four of the six hits he gave up were 4 seam fastballs in the zone. half his pitches were 4 seamers for some reason and he only generated one swing and miss.

very different than his last start where he relied on his changeup, so yes control was clearly an issue (5 walks). but it seems to me that if he can't control his changeup, he's totally useless. even if he can, if I'm a hitter facing him, I'm only sitting on a fastball (and striking out because I'm terrible but you get the point). 

If he's sitting 92-93 I think it can work, at 90-91 I'm not sure and leaning toward no. 

4 minutes ago, nrockway said:

his last start, he gave up three hits which were all fastballs (two 4-seam, one cutter). The four-seams were in the same place, right down the middle, crushed for doubles, whereas the cutter was below the zone and just a nice hit. 

looking at his statcast chart for this start, four of the six hits he gave up were 4 seam fastballs in the zone. half his pitches were 4 seamers for some reason and he only generated one swing and miss.

very different than his last start where he relied on his changeup, so yes control was clearly an issue (5 walks). but it seems to me that if he can't control his changeup, he's totally useless. even if he can, if I'm a hitter facing him, I'm only sitting on a fastball (and striking out because I'm terrible but you get the point). 

He has to be pinpoint.  It isn't about velocity,  it about control. 

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

He has to be pinpoint.  It isn't about velocity,  it about control. 

It's about both. Hitters can crush a 90 mph fastball anywhere in the zone. I've seen Crochet throw a perfectly placed 98 mph fastball and it still went out of the park. 

These are MLB hitters. They can hit any strike out of the park. 

Edited June 16, 20241 yr by baseball_gal_aly

29 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

He did throw some good ones that had movement in his first start.  But yeah, it seems like his fastball is in the 91-93 range but he far too often throws a 91/92 MPH straight-as-an-arrow meatball right over the cock of the plate, which is absolute meat to MLB hitters.

I’m really falling behind on all this new baseball lingo.

2 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

It's about both. Hitters can crush a 90 mph fastball anywhere in the zone. I've seen Crochet throw a perfectly placed 98 mph fastball and it still went out of the park. 

These are MLB hitters. They can hit any strike out of the park. 

That's the point.  He can't mess around in the zone. Plenty of other pitchers have done with without throwing 98.  You can be successful without throwing hard.

Just now, southsider2k5 said:

That's the point.  He can't mess around in the zone. Plenty of other pitchers have done with without throwing 98.  You can be successful without throwing hard.

I think that MLB hitters are so used to velocity now that that's no longer the case. Everyone throws hard, when 90 mph comes up there it looks like a beach ball. 

5 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

I think that MLB hitters are so used to velocity now that that's no longer the case. Everyone throws hard, when 90 mph comes up there it looks like a beach ball. 

Nah, pintpoint control is always a thing.  You can throw as hard as you want if hitters know where it is going to be.  A guy like this has to make sure where it is going to be.  Thorpe didn't mess around in the zone last time around, this time he did.  It's not like his velocity changed from start 1 to start 2, but his location did.

7 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Nah, pintpoint control is always a thing.  You can throw as hard as you want if hitters know where it is going to be.  A guy like this has to make sure where it is going to be.  Thorpe didn't mess around in the zone last time around, this time he did.  It's not like his velocity changed from start 1 to start 2, but his location did.

He averaged 91.8 mph in his first start and 90.6 mph today. That's a huge difference. 

Combine that with s%*# control, and you get 7 ER in 3.1 innings. 

Edited June 16, 20241 yr by baseball_gal_aly

Was hoping Thorpe would of had a better start.

Well at least Vaughn found something. 

15 minutes ago, Soxfest said:

Was hoping Thorpe would have had a better start.

Not saying he will always be this hit or miss but I think it’s pretty obvious why he has been traded twice already.  Teams don’t view him as a true ace without that high velocity fastball.  Made him a tradable asset rather than being viewed as untouchable.

45 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

He has to be pinpoint.  It isn't about velocity,  it about control. 

it is sort of about velocity because apparently he has to have perfect command every outing in order to not give up 7 runs. if the fastball is in the zone, it's getting crushed, it's that simple. that needs to change. does that mean adding an extra MPH or two? maybe, but I lean more toward "stop throwing a 4 seam fastball". does a sinker play off the changeup in the same way? I have no clue, but what I do have a clue about is that his fastball is in fact a problem and it was a problem when he had a great debut.

Edited June 16, 20241 yr by nrockway

US Open >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> White Sox baseball.

7 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

US Open >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> White Sox baseball.

Hell yeah! Disappointed for Rory but DeChambeau is no joke. Too bad he took the blood money.

17 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

US Open >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> White Sox baseball.

? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> White Sox baseball.

Let the kid take his lumps and learn with the Sox as long as it doesn't get to him mentally.

50 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

He averaged 91.8 mph in his first start and 90.6 mph today. That's a huge difference. 

Combine that with s%*# control, and you get 7 ER in 3.1 innings. 

It's not really though.  Unless you have data to back it up, just looking up Erick Fedde he has had a difference of 1.6 MPH on his fastball between his best and worst starts.  Garett Crochet has put up a difference of 2.2mph as well.

27 minutes ago, nrockway said:

it is sort of about velocity because apparently he has to have perfect command every outing in order to not give up 7 runs. if the fastball is in the zone, it's getting crushed, it's that simple. that needs to change. does that mean adding an extra MPH or two? maybe, but I lean more toward "stop throwing a 4 seam fastball". does a sinker play off the changeup in the same way? I have no clue, but what I do have a clue about is that his fastball is in fact a problem and it was a problem when he had a great debut.

He has to throw a regular fastball to get guys off of his change up.  If guys know it is going to be change, they just don't swing and let it fall out of the zone.

26 minutes ago, cuban_sammiches said:

Hell yeah! Disappointed for Rory but DeChambeau is no joke. Too bad he took the blood money.

He’s a traitor, Rory choked with bogeys on 3 of the last 4 holes.

Can we put Thorpe and Kopech in the laboratory and create Thorpech! A pitcher with a great change up who hits triple digits with his fastball.

2 hours ago, nrockway said:

very different than his last start where he relied on his changeup, so yes control was clearly an issue (5 walks). but it seems to me that if he can't control his changeup, he's totally useless. even if he can, if I'm a hitter facing him, I'm only sitting on a fastball (and striking out because I'm terrible but you get the point). 

Apparently he is known in part to have stellar control so this start was an aberration. Also, from what I’ve seen, hitters can’t sit fastball or change with him because they both have the same arm action and tunnel.

Best case is he’s a right handed Mark B or a Maddax type pitcher. Worst case is he’s a gas can.

I don’t see Thorpe as someone with a high floor. He’s either going to be a special and unique pitcher or he’s going to be an absolute gas can.

Just my take and what the f*** do I know?

1 hour ago, Soxfest said:

Was hoping Thorpe would have had a better start.

Gee, what a novel idea that I’m sure is entirely unique to you.