Passan address current challenges with TB/A's stadium situations, cites Sox and Royals predicaments

[Capn12]

I would say, it must suck to have ownership like that, as a fan......but....

 

[WBWSF]

On 3/11/2025 at 9:41 PM, Lip Man 1 said:

DeBartolo said he would move to Chicago and spend 20% of his time and business interests there.

He was turned down for bogus reasons, the fact that he owned race tracks (i.e. so did Steinbrenner but that didn't seem to be an issue) and because he "supposedly" had connections with some Italian "families" (nudge, nudge, wink, wink SAY no more!)

A big reason he was turned down was because he was going to spend big money on the franchise and the other owners were horrified at that prospect. He had already given Veeck money to sign LeFlore and Essian. 

He also would have built a stadium for the team with his own money.

[Lip Man 1]

58 minutes ago, WBWSF said:

He also would have built a stadium for the team with his own money.

I've never seen that anywhere before either in print or broadcast but anything is possible. 

[caulfield12]

https://apnews.com/article/rays-steinbrenner-field-makeover-a843685deca2a9023e3fcb4a02c83217

120 hours to transform new Rays' home field

[ewokpelts]

On 3/8/2025 at 10:46 PM, soxfan18 said:

The issue is the lease is ending, and the current deal is horrible for the state, so they're not going to be too keen on simply extending the team-friendly agreement. 

It’s been extended TWICE. 

[ewokpelts]

On 3/8/2025 at 11:19 PM, caulfield12 said:

There's going to be a taxpayer-funded subsidy flowing to JR this year if attendance somehow drops below 800,000 though...

It just means he doesn’t pay the rent. 

[caulfield12]

13 minutes ago, ewokpelts said:

It just means he doesn’t pay the rent. 

There's a IFSA ticket subsidy if attendance falls below 800,000...just like there was a small tax charged to the Sox for every ticket sold above 1.93 million.

 

The management agreement between ISFA and the White Sox “requires the team to pay a base rent per season, plus net ticket fees if paid attendance exceeds 1.93 million tickets," with that "excluding 'comp' tickets." The team “hasn’t paid ticket fees since 2010,” when it drew nearly 2.2 million fans. Last year, the franchise brought in their highest attendance since then, 1.92 million fans -- “just missing the threshold needed to pay ISFA.” While ISFA does "not heavily rely on revenue from ticket fees to meet its bond obligations,” the “glaring issue is the White Sox’s ability to bring in fans”

https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Articles/2023/09/14/chicago-white-sox-ticket-sales-no-fee-payments-isfa/

Edited March 26 by caulfield12

[ewokpelts]

On 3/11/2025 at 9:38 PM, Lip Man 1 said:

He had a very small percentage. Said selling out his share to JR was one of the biggest mistakes he ever made. 

In an alternate universe, the bulls owned by wirtz/hunt/steinbrenner don't win 6 championships over 8 years. 

[pcq]

Three teams who are not qualified or have no need for a major league park. Three weak sisters of your American League. Next. 

[southsider2k5]

54 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

There's a IFSA ticket subsidy if attendance falls below 800,000...just like there was a small tax charged to the Sox for every ticket sold above 1.93 million.

 

The management agreement between ISFA and the White Sox “requires the team to pay a base rent per season, plus net ticket fees if paid attendance exceeds 1.93 million tickets," with that "excluding 'comp' tickets." The team “hasn’t paid ticket fees since 2010,” when it drew nearly 2.2 million fans. Last year, the franchise brought in their highest attendance since then, 1.92 million fans -- “just missing the threshold needed to pay ISFA.” While ISFA does "not heavily rely on revenue from ticket fees to meet its bond obligations,” the “glaring issue is the White Sox’s ability to bring in fans”

https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Articles/2023/09/14/chicago-white-sox-ticket-sales-no-fee-payments-isfa/

Pretty sure it was said they got rid of the state ever paying anything last time around.

[soxfan18]

1 hour ago, ewokpelts said:

It’s been extended TWICE. 

And? Times have changed. 

[ewokpelts]

16 minutes ago, soxfan18 said:

And? Times have changed. 

The soldier field/sox park refinanced bonds expire in 2023. After that the state would “make money” with any lease extension, even at the current terms. 

[soxfan18]

1 hour ago, ewokpelts said:

The soldier field/sox park refinanced bonds expire in 2023. After that the state would “make money” with any lease extension, even at the current terms. 

They still lose money since they collect no rent when the team doesn't draw. The agreement also guarantees the state will pay for upgrades if they fall into the bottom 3rd of baseball in something, that's why the state had to pay for a new videoboard. It's a shitty deal for the state, that's not debatable.  

[ewokpelts]

On 3/26/2025 at 11:34 AM, soxfan18 said:

They still lose money since they collect no rent when the team doesn't draw. The agreement also guarantees the state will pay for upgrades if they fall into the bottom 3rd of baseball in something, that's why the state had to pay for a new videoboard. It's a shitty deal for the state, that's not debatable.  

that's assuming they renew the lease as-is. And even then, the agency has those costs budgeted. Nor are you factoring in the naming rights $ goes to the state. Any possible extension would almost have a naming rights change, as Rate's deal ends in 2030.

[Texsox]

On 3/8/2025 at 10:16 PM, caulfield12 said:

35 years old...three stadiums in Arlington/Texas during that same timeframe.

And the same number of World Series wins

[caulfield12]

57 minutes ago, Texsox said:

And the same number of World Series wins

By that measure, the Marlins are a model franchise due to 1997 and 2003.

[77 Hitmen]

On the subject of new stadiums, Washington DC and the Commanders have agreed to a new NFL stadium at the site of the old RFK Stadium.  The city will be contributing $1.1B for the project, though part of that money is for developing the area around the stadium.   

https://apnews.com/article/washington-commanders-stadium-3bda9804a246219f28e9a2d2206bb492

[tray]

On 3/26/2025 at 9:42 AM, ewokpelts said:

The soldier field/sox park refinanced bonds expire in 2023. After that the state would “make money” with any lease extension, even at the current terms. 

A lease extension with the ISFA would provide long term stability to the franchise and shut down the kind of speculation and uncertainty that the Bears are dealing with.

[caulfield12]

“The economics of baseball have completely changed,” with top ballplayers signing contracts worth as much as $700 million (which he got dinged for saying he wouldn't have any interest in Ohtani by the Commissioner's Office, btw), Reinsdorf said. “At the location we’re at now, we cannot generate the revenue needed to pay those salaries,” he said, referring to the team’s heavily residential Bridgeport home. A new space in a livelier downtown area with shops, bars and other entertainment venues within walking distance should do better, he contends.

Reinsdorf denied that the real problem is poor performance by his team. Even after winning the World Series in 2005, “we didn’t crack the 3 million (attendance) mark,” something that Series winners routinely accomplish.

 

(It now occurs to me that baseball owners had to love Shohei Ohtani signing a $700 million contract with the Dodgers, because even though the deferred payments knock down the net present value to $460 million, they can use the far larger figure for a bigger pity party.)

 

But Reinsdorf's sentimentality extends only so far. Business is still business. So in 1983, claiming the old Comiskey Park was "disintegrating," and "if we didn't get a new ballpark we'd go broke," Reinsdorf again played hardball. Threatening to move the Sox to St. Petersburg, Florida, if Illinois legislators didn't fund a new stadium, he now explained, "a savvy negotiator creates leverage. People had to think we were going to leave Chicago." Those machinations angered St. Petersburg city administrator Rick Dodge. Realizing Reinsdorf was simultaneously negotiating with him and Illinois officials, he told his attorneys, "He was playing us off against each other. I'm not going to sit here and get chewed up like this."

https://soxmachine.com/2024/02/jerry-reinsdorf-white-sox-relocation-threats

 

[ewokpelts]

On 3/26/2025 at 11:34 AM, soxfan18 said:

They still lose money since they collect no rent when the team doesn't draw. The agreement also guarantees the state will pay for upgrades if they fall into the bottom 3rd of baseball in something, that's why the state had to pay for a new videoboard. It's a shitty deal for the state, that's not debatable.  

Soldier field hosts events beyond the bears. AC/DC and beyonce literally played multiple shows last week there. 
the facility rental, and taxes collected from admissions, concessions, and march is not insignificant. And then there’s the parking on city owned lots. 

Soldier field is not getting torn down after the last bears game there. 
 

yes there would be no “rent” but also the bonds would be paid off. So the largest cost is gone. 
 

 

[ewokpelts]

On 4/28/2025 at 10:45 PM, tray said:

A lease extension with the ISFA would provide long term stability to the franchise and shut down the kind of speculation and uncertainty that the Bears are dealing with.

It’s really the best thing for the club. No matter who owns it. 
a 15 year extension benefits both sides. Gives them time to plan the next park properly and figure out how to pay for it. 

[caulfield12]

28 minutes ago, ewokpelts said:

It’s really the best thing for the club. No matter who owns it. 
a 15 year extension benefits both sides. Gives them time to plan the next park properly and figure out how to pay for it. 

The Ishbias wouldn't have gotten involved with the White Sox if it meant waiting until 2035 for the pre planning stages of a new stadium.

The fanbase can't survive that long waiting with the fifth or sixth oldest stadium, either.

[caulfield12]

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/45411203/dodgers-place-protective-netting-concrete-slab-hits-fan

Dodger Stadium, Fenway, Wrigley, Anaheim, Rogers Center/Skydome, Kauffman already has a replacement plan.

 

Interestingly, Toronto recently built a 50,000 seat stadium for concerts ONLY.

"On Thursday (Sept. 26), Live Nation and Northcrest Developments announced Rogers Stadium, the new 50,000 capacity outdoor venue in Toronto opening in June 2025. The venue will instantly become one of the biggest in Canada, with a slightly higher capacity than Toronto's other stadium, Rogers Centre (home of the Toronto Blue Jays baseball team). It's also one of the world's few venues of the size that isn't also home to a sports team."

Edited June 1 by caulfield12

[tray]

Live Nation Entertainment owns Credit Union 1 Amphitheater in Tinley Park.  That would be a great location near the center of Sox Nation if the Sox ever move from their historic home.

[The Mighty Mite]

On 3/26/2025 at 9:23 AM, caulfield12 said:

There's a IFSA ticket subsidy if attendance falls below 800,000...just like there was a small tax charged to the Sox for every ticket sold above 1.93 million.

 

The management agreement between ISFA and the White Sox “requires the team to pay a base rent per season, plus net ticket fees if paid attendance exceeds 1.93 million tickets," with that "excluding 'comp' tickets." The team “hasn’t paid ticket fees since 2010,” when it drew nearly 2.2 million fans. Last year, the franchise brought in their highest attendance since then, 1.92 million fans -- “just missing the threshold needed to pay ISFA.” While ISFA does "not heavily rely on revenue from ticket fees to meet its bond obligations,” the “glaring issue is the White Sox’s ability to bring in fans”

https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Articles/2023/09/14/chicago-white-sox-ticket-sales-no-fee-payments-isfa/

The Sox drew 2,009,000 in 2022.