Arlington Heights making stadium pitch to White Sox?

[soulfly]

On 5/18/2025 at 9:03 AM, WBWSF said:

The White Sox stadium is 2 different parks. There is nothing bad about the lower deck.(It's great) There is nothing good about the upper deck. Most of  it is horrible.

First 6 or 8 rows first base side right around bag are really nice in my opinion. 

[nrockway]

Just now, WBWSF said:

1) This talk of a new Bears stadium is all over the Chicago media. Nothing is being said about a new White Sox stadium. JR has said nothing. I know enough about JR to know he has some kind of game plan in regards  to a new stadium. From what I can see he's waiting for the Bears  to officially announce what they are going to do with their new stadium. Perhaps then he will come to some kind of an agreement with the City in regards to a new stadium in the South Loop. If the Bears go to the suburbs I would like to think the City wouldn't want to lose both the Bears and the White Sox.  2) I realize it isn't going to happen but wouldn't you love to see the team have a Soxfest like they had before and have a seminar with JR taking questions from the fans. It would be close to a riot.

 

Just now, Lip Man 1 said:

Some interesting comments in today's Sun-Times story:

 

“But it’s become apparent for them that no one has got any money for them, and the only way they get any break is from local school districts and municipalities”

Gov. JB Pritzker, Illinois House Speaker Emanuel “Chris” Welch and state Senate President Don Harmon have all consistently thrown cold water on the idea of giving any help to the team.

“The best thing that could happen for them is someone comes along and gives them a billion dollars, or the NFL steps up with more money. They’re getting zero from the city of Chicago, and they’re getting zero from the state. The money is not coming from here.”

https://chicago.suntimes.com/bears-stadium/2025/05/19/bears-stadium-arlington-heights-chicago-brandon-johnson

This is an outdated political take from the governor IMO. It's pandering to Democrats, right, but this is the exact sort of ecosystem the laissez-faire types want: no governmental oversight over their projects and retain all the profits.

The governor will end up harming the South Side of Chicago with his logic and produce another sea of vacant lots that will never be built upon. And no plan on what to do with the land. If they planted a bunch of trees there, I'd be all for it. That won't happen, it'll be useless concrete because of its 'development potential' that likely will never again be realized.

The present location is great and the city/state could 'invest' like they 'invest' in countless other giant projects that are less meaningful to the residents of the city and state (and with less revenue-producing opportunity to boot). The City alone invested over $500mil in Lightfoot's "Invest South/West" program, and what gains have been realized? There's plenty of money for a ballpark, and the city/state should be thinking about how the people can benefit from it.

[Lip Man 1]

2 hours ago, nrockway said:

 

This is an outdated political take from the governor IMO. It's pandering to Democrats, right, but this is the exact sort of ecosystem the laissez-faire types want: no governmental oversight over their projects and retain all the profits.

The governor will end up harming the South Side of Chicago with his logic and produce another sea of vacant lots that will never be built upon. And no plan on what to do with the land. If they planted a bunch of trees there, I'd be all for it. That won't happen, it'll be useless concrete because of its 'development potential' that likely will never again be realized.

The present location is great and the city/state could 'invest' like they 'invest' in countless other giant projects that are less meaningful to the residents of the city and state (and with less revenue-producing opportunity to boot). The City alone invested over $500mil in Lightfoot's "Invest South/West" program, and what gains have been realized? There's plenty of money for a ballpark, and the city/state should be thinking about how the people can benefit from it.

Your post is well thought out, please allow me to play Devil's Advocate:

Given the chaos and uncertainty from Washington who knows how much if any Federal funds will be available moving forward for Chicago or the state of Illinois.

It would be a very big political risk under these circumstances for any politician to say they are in favor of giving millions and millions of dollars to a billionaire.

Said billionaire who already got one stadium built on the public dole without spending one thin dime of his own money. That would probably be political suicide for that politician.

Pulitzer prize winning author John Heylar in his book “The Lords of the Realm” said the lease agreement JR got for the original stadium, to site one example was the best “sweetheart lease” agreement in baseball.

JR can’t claim the city/state didn’t bend over backwards to help him once already.

In the same book Helyar quoted JR directly when he was asked at one point how he became successful.

JR’s answer was, “O.P.M.” Other people’s money.

There’s an old saying, “Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me…”

JR wants to play the same game again in a totally different set of circumstances. Situations that are not in his favor this time around.

He could try to do two things in my opinion that might, repeat might sway some votes although I don’t think even these would move the needle much.

He could call a press conference and announce the White Sox are agreeing to spend X amount of dollars towards the project.

He could also tell Getz this off season that he’s tired of being a laughingstock and allow him to spend whatever it takes to make the team competitive in 2026.

Fact: Since the start of the 2007 season the White Sox have had only five winning seasons. They have been one of the worst franchises in MLB since that time.

It's one thing to ask for millions of dollars if your franchise is competitive on a regular basis. it's quite another to ask for it when the franchise is basically a running joke in the sport. 

Yes there may wind up being only “useless concrete” but useless concrete doesn’t cost millions and millions of tax payer dollars does it?

I just don’t see how under the current situation this gets done. JR is basically S.O.L.

 

 

Edited May 29 by Lip Man 1

[nrockway]

Just now, Lip Man 1 said:

Your post is well thought out, please allow me to play Devil's Advocate:

Given the chaos and uncertainty from Washington who knows how much if any Federal funds will be available moving forward for Chicago or the state of Illinois.

It would be a very big political risk under these circumstances for any politician to say they are in favor of giving millions and millions of dollars to a billionaire.

Said billionaire who already got one stadium built on the public dole without spending one thin dime of his own money. That would probably be political suicide for that politician.

Pulitzer prize winning author John Heylar in his book “The Lords of the Realm” said the lease agreement JR got for the original stadium, to site one example was the best “sweetheart lease” agreement in baseball.

JR can’t claim the city/state didn’t bend over backwards to help him once already.

In the same book Helyar quoted JR directly when he was asked at one point how he became successful.

JR’s answer was, “O.P.M.” Other people’s money.

There’s an old saying, “Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me…”

JR wants to play the same game again in a totally different set of circumstances. Situations that are not in his favor this time around.

He could try to do two things in my opinion that might, repeat might sway some votes although I don’t think even these would move the needle much.

He could call a press conference and announce the White Sox are agreeing to spend X amount of dollars towards the project.

He could also tell Getz this off season that he’s tired of being a laughingstock and allow him to spend whatever it takes to make the team competitive in 2026.

Fact: Since the start of the 2007 season the White Sox have had only five winning seasons. They have been one of the worst franchises in MLB since that time.

Yes there may wind up being only “useless concrete” but useless concrete doesn’t cost millions and millions of tax payer dollars does it?

I just don’t see how under the current situation this gets done. JR is basically S.O.L.

 

 

Thanks for the thoughtful post as usual and I appreciate your perspective!

I don't know if it's Devil's Advocate, because I agree with everything you wrote. I personally don't agree with 'corporate handouts', but for instance the City of Chicago offered Amazon (allegedly) $2bil worth of tax breaks if they set up shop here. Ostensibly there might have been some economic surplus for the city which factors into this decision-making I'm sure (I'm skeptical but one sees the logic), but the logic is wholly different when it comes to sport teams due to, I think, the failure of the previous generation of arenas to produce revenue. Of course, there are tons of cash cow arenas now. I just read an interesting article about a hockey arena in Edmonton or Alberta or somewhere on the Canadian periphery producing a bunch of tax revenue for the municipality. There's things to read about the impact of new minor league stadiums, even...clearly there's potential, some singular company has been buying every single minor league team, right Even if you look at the Braves or Rangers, dubiously successful developments, you see something the city of Chicago could learn from and try to implement with a private sector partner. I'm very "pro-public sector" and am skeptical about any "private-public-partnership", but sport seems like an environment where it makes a lot of sense. The team means more to Chicago than simple tax revenue or jobs it's part of our spirit -- even if spirit doesn't show up in quarterly reports,  that it's a source of funding, it should be considered.

I'm pretty annoyed by the new Bridgeport alderman's "whatever, man, the related company has it figured out" take on the whole thing. I'd be very disappointed if a South Side institution moved to the Loop. It would call into question my fandom.  I would wonder how that scar on the landscape could be filled, if not by the Chicago Fire.

Not sure if you have been in the vicinity of 35th and Shields recently, but the area is quite nice and gentrifying. I will always be pro-public housing and argue in favor of what was destroyed, but the logic of the area is simply different than it was 20 years ago. This is now a place you could build an "entertainment district" (I'd go there off-season. closer than up north, potentially more 'lively' than hyde park) that would be well-used and JR would make money hand over fist, especially because (I'm pretty sure) he owns all the vacant land. If the City is serious about its strategy to invest money on the south and west sides, this is a real opportunity. Play hard ball and get real concessions out of it that might benefit the people of the city. My bias is toward more free sport-related, literature and science-adjacent opportunities for kids and there's definitely available land nearby the ballpark to build such a facility. The Sox do an OK job of this already, but an arena in a 'liberal' city could be a good opportunity for a PPP that makes the team some money and benefits our kids at the same time. I think if we had a better team, it would be an easier sell. I tend to think no movement will happen on a new SoxPark any time soon, and why should it, the ballpark is already great. Very underappreciated piece of architecture and I love that I can spend 10 bucks and sit pretty much wherever I want. 

 

oh also: on the useless concrete bit, that's why I wrote trees specifically because you might be able to measure the economic/ecological impact of such things and it costs basically nothing. Planting more trees is generally a good idea if you can find space for it and it's easy to do and (reasonably) easy to maintain (though there's definitely a cost)...and to allude to a previous point, I don't think you can ignore the positive impact of living around a forest, a natural space, etc...I can't prove it, but Chicago is very good about this generally. Milwaukee is even better. Some fantasy I have for future ballparks is something of an eco-arena, well-situated in its natural habitat but is forward-thinking in its energy use. It's occasionally a fun story when hawks decide to nest at SoxPark, why not create an environment for them specifically?

[Sleepy Harold]

 

[WBWSF]

13 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Your post is well thought out, please allow me to play Devil's Advocate:

Given the chaos and uncertainty from Washington who knows how much if any Federal funds will be available moving forward for Chicago or the state of Illinois.

It would be a very big political risk under these circumstances for any politician to say they are in favor of giving millions and millions of dollars to a billionaire.

Said billionaire who already got one stadium built on the public dole without spending one thin dime of his own money. That would probably be political suicide for that politician.

Pulitzer prize winning author John Heylar in his book “The Lords of the Realm” said the lease agreement JR got for the original stadium, to site one example was the best “sweetheart lease” agreement in baseball.

JR can’t claim the city/state didn’t bend over backwards to help him once already.

In the same book Helyar quoted JR directly when he was asked at one point how he became successful.

JR’s answer was, “O.P.M.” Other people’s money.

There’s an old saying, “Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me…”

JR wants to play the same game again in a totally different set of circumstances. Situations that are not in his favor this time around.

He could try to do two things in my opinion that might, repeat might sway some votes although I don’t think even these would move the needle much.

He could call a press conference and announce the White Sox are agreeing to spend X amount of dollars towards the project.

He could also tell Getz this off season that he’s tired of being a laughingstock and allow him to spend whatever it takes to make the team competitive in 2026.

Fact: Since the start of the 2007 season the White Sox have had only five winning seasons. They have been one of the worst franchises in MLB since that time.

It's one thing to ask for millions of dollars if your franchise is competitive on a regular basis. it's quite another to ask for it when the franchise is basically a running joke in the sport. 

Yes there may wind up being only “useless concrete” but useless concrete doesn’t cost millions and millions of tax payer dollars does it?

I just don’t see how under the current situation this gets done. JR is basically S.O.L.

 

 

From what I know the Ishbia brothers now own half of the White Sox stock. I take it  that they are going to be the next White Sox owners someday. You mention how JR  uses O.P.M.  (other peoples money).  I would think the only way JR would put money into a new stadium is with money from the Ishbia brothers.(O.P.M.) JR won't put a cent of his own money towards a new stadium. If the Ishbia brothers put money towards a new stadium, hopefully they will take over the team also.

[ptatc]

1 hour ago, Sleepy Harold said:

 

Inserting how someone with close ties to pritzger now hired by the bears is able to work with both parties and the increase the state involvement once the bears decided to leave chicago.

[Harry Chappas]

The red line expansion is an epic waste of taxpayer money.  Zero need for that project but it makes everyone feel good. Is a stadium anything more a promo piece for the city, nope but it is better advertising than the  El to nowhere.

[Lip Man 1]

2 hours ago, Sleepy Harold said:

 

Very interesting story but as the report concludes:

It remains to be seen whether the Bears’ new hire or the Pritzker administration’s work with an outside adviser will lead to any major movement in Springfield on legislation to help the team with its stadium plans.

But with the legislature facing a shaky budget picture and other major challenges ahead of its scheduled Saturday adjournment, winning support for such a plan — which is sure to be met with stiff opposition from Chicago lawmakers — is no guarantee.

[pcq]

Imagine an owner who basically hates the fans in line for a second new stadium. 

[WBWSF]

4 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Very interesting story but as the report concludes:

It remains to be seen whether the Bears’ new hire or the Pritzker administration’s work with an outside adviser will lead to any major movement in Springfield on legislation to help the team with its stadium plans.

But with the legislature facing a shaky budget picture and other major challenges ahead of its scheduled Saturday adjournment, winning support for such a plan — which is sure to be met with stiff opposition from Chicago lawmakers — is no guarantee.

If the Governor of Illinois wants to help out the Bears financially it will be done.The Democrats have a  super majority in this state. I'm convinced that the Governor of Illinois will help the Bears with money for the new stadium. I don't think there is anyway the Bears will pay $5 billion dollars for a stadium. How this will affect the White Sox proposed new stadium, I don't know.

[tray]

9 hours ago, WBWSF said:

If the Governor of Illinois wants to help out the Bears financially it will be done.The Democrats have a  super majority in this state. I'm convinced that the Governor of Illinois will help the Bears with money for the new stadium. I don't think there is anyway the Bears will pay $5 billion dollars for a stadium. How this will affect the White Sox proposed new stadium, I don't know.

I saw the Bears play at Wrigley which was no big deal back then. Imagine a game there now with all the hype surrounding that place. 

Edited May 30 by tray

[The Mighty Mite]

6 hours ago, tray said:

 . 
 

I loved watching the Bears at Wrigley, you were right on top of the action as they put up that temporary grandstand in right field. Old Papa Bear Halas could squeeze 46,000 in there and at that time Wrigley’s capacity for baseball was only 37,000.

 

Edited May 30 by The Mighty Mite

[ptatc]

50 minutes ago, The Mighty Mite said:

 

It was fun to watch them there.

[Falstaff]

My uncle had Bears season tickets in the early 60's.  I seem to recall he said the 1963 season tickets were either $28 or $35. He did go to the Championship game against NY but had standing only tickets. 

[The Mighty Mite]

4 hours ago, Falstaff said:

My uncle had Bears season tickets in the early 60's.  I seem to recall he said the 1963 season tickets were either $28 or $35. He did go to the Championship game against NY but had standing only tickets. 

Believe it not but the Championship game was blacked out in Chicago, my favorite uncle got us tickets to watch the game on closed circuit TV at McCormick Place.

Edited May 30 by The Mighty Mite

[ptatc]

6 hours ago, Falstaff said:

My uncle had Bears season tickets in the early 60's.  I seem to recall he said the 1963 season tickets were either $28 or $35. He did go to the Championship game against NY but had standing only tickets. 

Sounds right. My family has had the tickets since the early 60's as well.

[The Mighty Mite]

17 hours ago, ptatc said:

Sounds right. My family has had the tickets since the early 60's as well.

Box seats at that time were 5 bucks and they had 6 home games which came out to 30 bucks for the season.

Edited May 31 by The Mighty Mite

[WBWSF]

The Illinois legislature came up with their budget bill yesterday. Nothing was done about the stadium situation for either the Bears or White Sox. What happens now, if anything?   I can't see the Bears paying $5 billion dollars for a new stadium. They're not exactly known for  spending money. Unless the Ishbia family pays for a new  White Sox stadium I certainly can"t see JR paying for a new  stadium. Maybe both teams will just stay at their present stadiums.

[Lip Man 1]

2 hours ago, WBWSF said:

The Illinois legislature came up with their budget bill yesterday. Nothing was done about the stadium situation for either the Bears or White Sox. What happens now, if anything?   I can't see the Bears paying $5 billion dollars for a new stadium. They're not exactly known for  spending money. Unless the Ishbia family pays for a new  White Sox stadium I certainly can"t see JR paying for a new  stadium. Maybe both teams will just stay at their present stadiums.

That's certainly possible.

I think both sides realize although they won't admit it publicly, that their chances of getting sizable funds from either the state and/or the City of Chicago are pretty slim. 

They'll have to contribute a LOT of their own money to even get discussions off the ground in a real sense and even that may not work given the financial situation overall for the state and city.

I know some of this was out of their control but both the Bears and Sox picked a pretty bad time to try to extort money from entities. 

 

[Jake]

Jerry surely wants some certainty about the stadium situation, but it's been such a low point for the Sox that biding his time for a while before sticking his hand out might not be the worst idea.

[Lip Man 1]

1 hour ago, Jake said:

Jerry surely wants some certainty about the stadium situation, but it's been such a low point for the Sox that biding his time for a while before sticking his hand out might not be the worst idea.

Except he already has stuck his hand out...remember his visit to Springfield?

[pcq]

Sox deserve a new stadium every five years or move to Peoria. 

[Lip Man 1]

“Regardless of all that, when we’re talking about a tough budget year and the fact that we still had a billion dollars worth of transit to figure out, I think tax breaks and property tax certainty and money for stadium development is not high on the list for the people of Illinois,” State Rep Kam Buckner said.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/bears-stadium/2025/06/01/bears-stadium-bill-springfield

[77 Hitmen]

On 5/18/2025 at 7:53 AM, The Mighty Mite said:

So what has to be done to make a baseball park not dull?

Is Wrigley Field a great park, no, back in the day it was just another ballpark. Same with Fenway, what both ball parks have going for them is that they are old and in neighborhoods with lots of restaurants and bars, those things have never done a thing for me. What makes Dodger Stadium so good? The stadium itself, absolutely nothing. It is in a great setting with the hills in the background but as a ballpark and watching a game it is no better than Rate Field, and guess what, it’s surrounded by parking lots with no restaurants or bars anywhere close to it. Royals Stadium gets pretty good reviews but again it’s no better than Rate Field, again another park surrounded by parking lots and no restaurants or bars nearby.

I will say this about our ballpark, when first built it was an ugly monstrosity but much to my chagrin I have to give kudos to JR and company for turning the park into a very nice place to watch a game.

Bottom line, if a ballpark is considered dull, that problem could be rectified very easily with a winning team.

 

On 5/18/2025 at 9:03 AM, WBWSF said:

The White Sox stadium is 2 different parks. There is nothing bad about the lower deck.(It's great) There is nothing good about the upper deck. Most of  it is horrible.

Search for MLB ballpark rankings and you'll find that Rate Field ranks at or near the bottom in almost every review - especially if you discount the A's and Rays stadium debacles.   We Sox fans can keep repeating how the current park is "just fine" all we want.....but hardly anyone outside of hard core Sox fans believes this.

They did a great job in renovating the park 20 years ago and I agree with the difference between the lower deck experience (pretty good) and upper deck experience (not so great).  But, at the end of the day, it's an unremarkable ballpark in an unremarkable neighborhood.   The Sox could probably get away with this mediocrity if they didn't share a city with a team that plays in a ballpark that most people outside of the Sox fan base consider a must-see baseball experience.  

Here's another recent review.  Sox fans aren't going to like which park is ranked dead last (after Sacramento and Tropicana Field) and which park is ranked #1.  But this is the world we live in.  

 

Edited June 3 by 77 Hitmen