Resilient White Sox/AL Central Attendance, somehow up 1.8% YoY for first 21 home dates

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Winning solves a lot of problems. 

Denver MSA just feels so much bigger than Pittsburgh...but that doesn't translate in the same way to Steelers vs. Broncos crowds.

Of course only talking 10 or whatever home games vs. 81 there.

You'd think if the White Sox had Skenes instead of the Pirates...would they at least be 24th or 25th in attendance the last couple of seasons instead of 27th?

Or if you switched stadiums with Pitt and GRF?

[77 Hitmen]

4 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Denver MSA just feels so much bigger than Pittsburgh...but that doesn't translate in the same way to Steelers vs. Broncos crowds.

Of course only talking 10 or whatever home games vs. 81 there.

You'd think if the White Sox had Skenes instead of the Pirates...would they at least be 24th or 25th in attendance the last couple of seasons instead of 27th?

Or if you switched stadiums with Pitt and GRF?

Well, we all know that Jerry likes to run this franchise like we're the Pittsburgh Pirates.

Pittsburgh's MSA is about 1/4th of Chicago's (2.4M people vs. 9.6M people) and the Pirates arguably have been the worst MLB franchise over the last 30 years.

I did some quick numbers crunching.  In the 24 seasons since PNC Park opened, the Pirates have finished higher than 4th place only four times compared to 15 times for the Sox during that span including a WS title.  The Pirates per game attendance was higher than the Sox in 10 of those 24 seasons.  In another 2 of those seasons, the Sox average attendance was barely ahead of the Pirates (less than 1k per game). 

These aren't attendance numbers I'd like to toot my horn about as a Sox fan.  

Edited September 10 by 77 Hitmen

[77 Hitmen]

22 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

https://www.espn.com/mlb/attendance
 

Still up 145 fans per game over 2024…9 home games left to go

These numbers highlight MLB's competitive balance problem.  All the rich, big market teams are packing them in and the bottom of the list is almost all small market teams and the White Sox and those teams are struggling to get people into the seats.  

There are a couple of outliers:  San Diego is 3rd in attendance and perhaps a medium market?  Milwaukee is averaging 32k/game and that's better than their small market status, but they're also the best team in baseball.

Edited September 10 by 77 Hitmen

[caulfield12]

4 hours ago, 77 Hitmen said:

These numbers highlight MLB's competitive balance problem.  All the rich, big market teams are packing them in and the bottom of the list is almost all small market teams and the White Sox and those teams are struggling to get people into the seats.  

There are a couple of outliers:  San Diego is 3rd in attendance and perhaps a medium market?  Milwaukee is averaging 32k/game and that's better than their small market status, but they're also the best team in baseball.

SD small market for media and somewhere in between medium and small (Albeit wealthier) for population base.  Hence losing the Clippers and Chargers...

You have the weather and stadium/environment going for them, as well as 4/6 playoff appearances.

 

Cardinals are the biggest drop...were always the best-attended of small to medium markets.

Milwaukee has pretty much replaced them as fans in StL have grown disenchanted by perceived penny pinching on payroll.

Also note how low Baltimore is coming off two consecutive but terribly disappointing playoff appearances.

Edited September 11 by caulfield12

[77 Hitmen]

21 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

There just is not a lot to do in Denver proper in summer. It's a very sleepy town from what I saw. Chicagoans have a multitude of things and have a competing franchise obviously. I don't think it's hardcore Rockies fans as much as just the reality of entertainment options in the Denver summer season.

According to AI, here are the reasons why the Rockies draw well despite the terrible team.  

Reasons for Good Attendance

• Loyal Fanbase:

  The Rockies boast a dedicated fanbase that continues to support the team, even during a period of historically bad performance. 

   
• Attractive Stadium and Location:

  Coors Field is in a vibrant part of Denver and offers a unique fan experience that draws people to the ballpark. 

   
• Affordable Tickets:

  Low ticket prices, particularly for outfield seats, make attending games accessible for many fans. 

   
• Favorable Environment:

  The ballpark's weather and general atmosphere also contribute to bringing in large crowds. 

   

  Also, I asked a slightly different way and got this:

   

  Cultural Factors

  • Transplant City:

    Denver is a city with a large population of people who have moved from other places. Many of these transplants remain loyal to their original home teams, outnumbering Rockies fans and showing up to support other teams when they play in Denver. 

     
  • Social Hub:

    Coors Field, the Rockies' stadium, is situated in Denver's vibrant downtown area and is often described as the "best bar in Denver" due to its high attendance even when the team performs poorly. 

     

  Ballpark & Experience

  • Coors Field Experience:

    The stadium itself offers a unique experience, contributing to a fun and social outing. The high altitude at Coors Field also makes it a "home run friendly" ballpark, which can enhance the fan experience. 

     
  • Atmosphere:

    Even with a struggling team, the overall game-day experience and atmosphere at Coors Field remain enjoyable. 

     

  Financial Incentives 

   

  • Lower Ticket Prices: The Rockies have relatively lower ticket prices compared to other major professional sports teams in the city, making it more affordable for fans to attend games, regardless of the team's on-field performance.

  These factors create a situation where a strong game-day experience and loyal fanbase, along with affordability, can keep attendance high even when the on-field team is historically bad. 

[77 Hitmen]

On 9/10/2025 at 7:16 PM, caulfield12 said:

SD small market for media and somewhere in between medium and small (Albeit wealthier) for population base.  Hence losing the Clippers and Chargers...

You have the weather and stadium/environment going for them, as well as 4/6 playoff appearances.

 

Cardinals are the biggest drop...were always the best-attended of small to medium markets.

Milwaukee has pretty much replaced them as fans in StL have grown disenchanted by perceived penny pinching on payroll.

Also note how low Baltimore is coming off two consecutive but terribly disappointing playoff appearances.

San Diego is also the only MLB city that has no other major sports franchise.  They didn't even have an MLS team until this year.

Baltimore took a huge hit by losing half of their market when the Nats arrived in DC.   They did draw well when the team played well between 2012-2016 and actually won some postseason games in that time.     

[champagne030]

On 9/10/2025 at 3:00 PM, 77 Hitmen said:

These numbers highlight MLB's competitive balance problem.  All the rich, big market teams are packing them in and the bottom of the list is almost all small market teams and the White Sox and those teams are struggling to get people into the seats.  

There are a couple of outliers:  San Diego is 3rd in attendance and perhaps a medium market?  Milwaukee is averaging 32k/game and that's better than their small market status, but they're also the best team in baseball.

I heard a clip on MLB Radio this morning that the Pirates have had 4 above .500 seasons in the last 33 years (I didn't fact check it).  Jerry see's all the year over year profits that they get and that's what he wants.  I think it's going to be a long lockout.  The spenders don't want to share with teams/owners that don't care about winning and the non-spenders don't want to cutoff the pipeline of profits.

[southsider2k5]

10 minutes ago, champagne030 said:

I heard a clip on MLB Radio this morning that the Pirates have had 4 above .500 seasons in the last 33 years (I didn't fact check it).  Jerry see's all the year over year profits that they get and that's what he wants.  I think it's going to be a long lockout.  The spenders don't want to share with teams/owners that don't care about winning and the non-spenders don't want to cutoff the pipeline of profits.

And this is the team our attendance is on par with.  Look, this is EXACTLY why Jerry wants to leave Bridgeport for the 78.

[nrockway]

I lived for a year about a mile away from Coors Field. That whole area is popping off, it's a lot like Wrigleyville plus a bunch of homeless shelters, Salvation Army, drug rehab facilities. The YUPs and CO's junior senator (real estate developer) are trying to get rid of all that other stuff. 

The ballpark is really incredible. Great views. Lots of things to do before and after. Denver is also quite small and all of its 'touristy'/business things are concentrated around this area along with the 'neighborhood' kind of vibe. Very easy to access by commuter rail and highway...the yuppies can just walk over and it's a nice day out. If you're in Denver on business, it's probably walking distance to your hotel. It's a cheap day out for families.

I think that ChatGPT post got it pretty much right. The transplants (ie me) are a big factor too. I think the high octane offense draws people. Nobody cares if the home team is any good.

[77 Hitmen]

1 hour ago, champagne030 said:

I heard a clip on MLB Radio this morning that the Pirates have had 4 above .500 seasons in the last 33 years (I didn't fact check it).  Jerry see's all the year over year profits that they get and that's what he wants.  I think it's going to be a long lockout.  The spenders don't want to share with teams/owners that don't care about winning and the non-spenders don't want to cutoff the pipeline of profits.

And in those 4 above .500 seasons, the Pirates were averaging between 27.7k and 30.8k people per game.  The only seasons the Sox have averaged at least that in the last 30 years were 2005-2009.

At the conclusion of this season, the Pirates' current pennant drought will SURPASS the one the Sox had from 1959 to 2005, which at the time was an American League record.  Wow!  The only team with a longer current drought are the Mariners, who have never won a pennant since they joined MLB as an expansion team in 1977.    

[ewokpelts]

On 9/10/2025 at 2:52 PM, 77 Hitmen said:

Well, we all know that Jerry likes to run this franchise like we're the Pittsburgh Pirates.

Pittsburgh's MSA is about 1/4th of Chicago's (2.4M people vs. 9.6M people) and the Pirates arguably have been the worst MLB franchise over the last 30 years.

I did some quick numbers crunching.  In the 24 seasons since PNC Park opened, the Pirates have finished higher than 4th place only four times compared to 15 times for the Sox during that span including a WS title.  The Pirates per game attendance was higher than the Sox in 10 of those 24 seasons.  In another 2 of those seasons, the Sox average attendance was barely ahead of the Pirates (less than 1k per game). 

These aren't attendance numbers I'd like to toot my horn about as a Sox fan.  

The pirates were actually good from 2012-2017ish

[77 Hitmen]

4 hours ago, ewokpelts said:

The pirates were actually good from 2012-2017ish

94 wins in 2013 and 98 wins in 2015...wow, I forgot that they were actually that good for a few years.

It looks like their attendance bottomed out in 2018 and 2019 and has been a little higher post-Covid.  But then again, it looks like MLB overall attendance also bottomed out in 2018-19 and has rebounded post-Covid.  

https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/majors/misc.shtml

This year's league-wide average has ticked down a little from last year so far, but 2 teams are playing in minor league stadiums.

Edited September 14 by 77 Hitmen

[ewokpelts]

9 hours ago, 77 Hitmen said:

94 wins in 2013 and 98 wins in 2015...wow, I forgot that they were actually that good for a few years.

It looks like their attendance bottomed out in 2018 and 2019 and has been a little higher post-Covid.  But then again, it looks like MLB overall attendance also bottomed out in 2018-19 and has rebounded post-Covid.  

https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/majors/misc.shtml

This year's league-wide average has ticked down a little from last year so far, but 2 teams are playing in minor league stadiums.

That was their playoff window. The NL central had the three best teams in baseball in 2015. 
 They lost to the 97 win cubs that year in the wild card game.

[77 Hitmen]

Sox final attendance numbers for the season are 1,445,738.  That's up by about 60,000 fans total over 2024 but it's still the second lowest season total since 1999.

https://www.mlb.com/news/white-sox-lose-final-home-game-of-2025-to-padres

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, 77 Hitmen said:

Sox final attendance numbers for the season are 1,445,738.  That's up by about 60,000 fans total over 2024 but it's still the second lowest season total since 1999.

https://www.mlb.com/news/white-sox-lose-final-home-game-of-2025-to-padres

Expectations game...

Still pretty pitiful, but the promotions over the year were as good as ever.

That said, Boyer is also responsible for Schiffren's ongoing presence, too.

17 Detroit

21 Cleveland

24 Minnesota

25 KC

27th (again) White Sox

 

Mike Monaco was the best choice two years ago.

 

Also TB barely leading the A's in attendance going into the final week...the two minor league facilities have been much livelier this year.

Edited September 22 by caulfield12

[nrockway]

Think I really would've really enjoyed going to a game in Sacramento this year. Laying out on a towel on the lawn having a picnic watching MLB players is a pretty rare experience. Little bit different than the Kane County Cougars. Watched some A's game recently where Kurtz hit a foul ball, like, 105mph off the bat directly into some couple just tanning, chilling out...they were like "whoa wtf" (I imagine). Then he hit a grand slam 500 feet dead center to nobody. 

[Lip Man 1]

From the Sun-Times:

Cue the attendance jokes

The Sox’ final homestand of the season last weekend put their 2025 home attendance total at 1,445,738.

That’s an increase of almost 5% from their historically bad 2024 season, when they drew 1,380,733 to 35th and Shields, the lowest total since 1999.

But this year’s modest increase in Rate Field crowds still marks their second-lowest non-COVID season attendance this century, and promises to keep them among MLB’s cellar dwellers.

The Sox last cracked 2 million paying customers — a decent barometer for the American League average — in 2022.

[WBWSF]

I never thought the White Sox would draw what they did this season.I remember  the seasons 1966-1971 when the team couldn't draw over one milion fans  a year. I would like to think with a better team next year the attendance will start to go back up again.

[77 Hitmen]

9 hours ago, WBWSF said:

I never thought the White Sox would draw what they did this season.I remember  the seasons 1966-1971 when the team couldn't draw over one milion fans  a year. I would like to think with a better team next year the attendance will start to go back up again.

The good news is that the Sox seem to have a better attendance FLOOR than a few other teams.  I'm thinking of the two Florida teams and the A's in Oakland.  Though, I don't know if the Sox numbers are much different than the Tigers when they lost 119 games. 

I wouldn't go by any attendance numbers from before 1990 and certainly not from the late 60s/early 70s.  MLB average attendance was much lower back then - the league-wide average was around 15k/game in the late 1960s, which is about half of the average per game attendance in the last quarter century. 
https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/majors/misc.shtml

[chitownsportsfan]

4 minutes ago, 77 Hitmen said:

The good news is that the Sox seem to have a better attendance FLOOR than a few other teams.  I'm thinking of the two Florida teams and the A's in Oakland.  Though, I don't know if the Sox numbers are much different than the Tigers when they lost 119 games. 

I wouldn't go by any attendance numbers from before 1990 and certainly not from the late 60s/early 70s.  MLB average attendance was much lower back then - the league-wide average was around 15k/game in the late 1960s, which is about half of the average per game attendance in the last quarter century. 
https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/majors/misc.shtml

I'd imagine the floor is almost entirely due to corporate seats and packages that Oakland and Florida teams do not have. With Citadel moving out of Chicago I know there was some concern of an exodus of similar shops. See what happens.

[caulfield12]

26 minutes ago, 77 Hitmen said:

The good news is that the Sox seem to have a better attendance FLOOR than a few other teams.  I'm thinking of the two Florida teams and the A's in Oakland.  Though, I don't know if the Sox numbers are much different than the Tigers when they lost 119 games. 

I wouldn't go by any attendance numbers from before 1990 and certainly not from the late 60s/early 70s.  MLB average attendance was much lower back then - the league-wide average was around 15k/game in the late 1960s, which is about half of the average per game attendance in the last quarter century. 
https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/majors/misc.shtml

Detroit was around 1.5 million that year.

Ranked 25th, White Sox 23rd in their key rebuild year before 2020.

[WBWSF]

The Cleveland-Detroit playoff game in Cleveland yesterday only drew 26,000. There were 8,000 empty seats. I realize that the game was played during the week and during the afternoon. Still,I would think MLB can't be too happy with thar low amount of attendance.

[caulfield12]

3 minutes ago, WBWSF said:

The Cleveland-Detroit playoff game in Cleveland yesterday only drew 26,000. There were 8,000 empty seats. I realize that the game was played during the week and during the afternoon. Still,I would think MLB can't be too happy with thar low amount of attendance.

Jacobs Field had the longest consecutive sellout mark in the 90s, yes?

4-5 full rebuilds later...here they still are, but fans must be getting sick of it all.

First trading Naylor and Bieber, next will be Kwan.

[southsider2k5]

51 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Jacobs Field had the longest consecutive sellout mark in the 90s, yes?

4-5 full rebuilds later...here they still are, but fans must be getting sick of it all.

First trading Naylor and Bieber, next will be Kwan.

Their fanbase is burnt to the ground.  It may never come back.

[Kyyle23]

I wouldn’t call it 4-5 rebuilds.  They have been consistently graduating prospects and flipping them when it’s time to pay them for a long time.  The only one that has been safe is Jose Ramirez and he is VASTLY underpaid