Snopek Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 31 minutes ago, Chimpton said: Would it be a comedy or a horror book? Yes 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 50 minutes ago, Quin said: In retrospect I feel like I (and others) owe Ricky so many apologies. That really feels like the point of no return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 52 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said: And you have to look at the reason why they were extended early, the Sox were trying to save money in the long run by locking guys in before they hit arbitration and eventually free agency. Many teams do this, It works if the organization is worth being part of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 59 minutes ago, almagest said: It's wild that the 2020 AL manager of the year runner up got fired. I remember loving how hard that team played. They should've beaten Oakland, though that was more of a .500 team that got hot for a bit during the short season than it was an actual contender. Surprised Rick hasn't gotten any other jobs though. Wonder why. Tatis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 1 hour ago, bmags said: Yes things are difficult here but still surprising the degree of their drop. Not talking about being stars to just then being normie ball players. But Robert isn't hitting .700-.720 ops. We are talking almost a year and a half of an OPS+ in the 70s. Like, Leury garcia at age 27, just like robert, was 20% better offensively. And he sucked! Eloy Jimenez went from a 140 wRC+ at 25 to out of the league at 28. Vaughn was just an underwhelming 1B who suddenly was hitting worse than if you cut Leury Garcia's age 27 offensive season in half. Out of the league in AAA. Moncada ... well he seems like he's generally the same just injured. A more normal person who just prioritizes looking hot in music videos over baseball strength. Anderson I think is the MOST explainable. Him and Schoop were near carbon copies of one another offensively. Both were putting great offensive numbers up, and both fell off a cliff at age 30. Their approach just wasn't built to last. White sox players being underwhelming is built in for me. I'm used to a Brent Morel coming up and actually being ass. But this crop of dudes actually showing up as top players only to regress to out of the league just as quick is WILD. No shortage of that happening Late June we start to get giddy over trading for prospects only for the same result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloydBannister1983 Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 2 hours ago, ptatc said: Better play through chemistry? That is one of the best explanations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 40 minutes ago, oldsox said: Tatis. I meant Renteria. Tatis is just the tip of the iceberg with Hahn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 2 hours ago, oldsox said: Does this thread end if Robert gets traded? Never, then the complaints about the players acquired in the trade starts. It will be referred to in perpetuity as an example of how bad the trade was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 11 minutes ago, ptatc said: Never, then the complaints about the players acquired in the trade starts. It will be referred to in perpetuity as an example of how bad the trade was. They long since missed the window for trading Luis Robert. if the revisionist history really is true that Getz knew this was a major rebuild all along because Rick Hahn burned this franchise to the ground and this was going to be the worst season in baseball history, he 100% missed his window not trading him after 2023. If that was all a media lie, his blew it by not kicking in cash this off season to pick up two of the Reds top prospects per the winter reports. I have long since given up on a nice return for Robert. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 (edited) 22 minutes ago, ptatc said: Never, then the complaints about the players acquired in the trade starts. It will be referred to in perpetuity as an example of how bad the trade was. To be fair, with the way he’s played the last year+, it’s not likely even look like a good return off the bat. I think most here just want to move on regardless of return at this point (take best offer and move on. Edited June 23 by Bob Sacamano 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighurt574 Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 4 hours ago, bmags said: it is so astounding that this guy became one of the worst players in baseball while entering his prime. I'm sure some blame goes to him, but man. Every single one of that 2021 core became non mlb players by the time they hit 28. It makes no sense. It's quite astounding, and they all continued to suck at their new teams too (apart from maybe Moncada this year before he got hurt, again). I don't know that there's one answer. Eloy, Robert, and TA all turned into pumpkins. I'm sure injuries contributed. Madrigal and Vaughn were just terrible for having top 3-4 picks two years in a row. And it's not like the Sox were alone in highly valuing those guys either. Seems like obviously misevals in retrospect. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 30 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: To be fair, with the way he’s played the last year+, it’s not likely even look like a good return off the bat. I think most here just want to move on regardless of return at this point (take best offer and move on. I agree. He isn't worth much right now so they won't get much. That is a value deal. Not much for not much. However,there are going to be people complaining that they should have gotten more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 31 minutes ago, bighurt574 said: It's quite astounding, and they all continued to suck at their new teams too (apart from maybe Moncada this year before he got hurt, again). I don't know that there's one answer. Eloy, Robert, and TA all turned into pumpkins. I'm sure injuries contributed. Madrigal and Vaughn were just terrible for having top 3-4 picks two years in a row. And it's not like the Sox were alone in highly valuing those guys either. Seems like obviously misevals in retrospect. TA was physically broken by the time he left. I think playing through injuries did him in. It's possible Eloy and Yoan have similar issues as their explosion never came back. Robert has looked healthy, but just lost. Like he is hearing about being selective and trying, but he just ends up overthinking and in between. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said: They long since missed the window for trading Luis Robert. if the revisionist history really is true that Getz knew this was a major rebuild all along because Rick Hahn burned this franchise to the ground and this was going to be the worst season in baseball history, he 100% missed his window not trading him after 2023. If that was all a media lie, his blew it by not kicking in cash this off season to pick up two of the Reds top prospects per the winter reports. I have long since given up on a nice return for Robert. This. The last known interest was over the winter with the Reds being the interested team. Should have taken whatever single top prospect (perhaps two?) they were offering and kicked in cash. It probably didn’t happen because either Getz wanted more or he couldn’t get Jerry to throw in cash. Either way, it was an utter fail of a strategy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poppysox Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 3 hours ago, T R U said: Too bad we can't see the alternate timeline where they never fire Renteria and TLR never returns to the Sox. TLR is the gift that keeps on giving. By far, the biggest mistake in JR's ownership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 1 hour ago, ptatc said: Never, then the complaints about the players acquired in the trade starts. It will be referred to in perpetuity as an example of how bad the trade was. Nobody with a grip on reality should complain about the eventual return for him. The complaints should be about not unloading him when they decided to nuke the roster like they should have. I think we all know the return is going to be very disappointing as it should be given his play and contract. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 3 hours ago, T R U said: Too bad we can't see the alternate timeline where they never fire Renteria and TLR never returns to the Sox. Or better yet, where the GM actually gets to hire his own manager (AJ Hinch) instead of Jerry's drinking buddy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 (edited) 23 minutes ago, T R U said: Nobody with a grip on reality should complain about the eventual return for him. The complaints should be about not unloading him when they decided to nuke the roster like they should have. I think we all know the return is going to be very disappointing as it should be given his play and contract. I agree. But I dont think disappointingis the word. Disappointing maybe compared to if they traded him in 2023 but they would have crucified for that. No one should be disappointed in what they get right not for his value right now. Edited June 23 by ptatc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 12 minutes ago, ptatc said: I agree. But I dont think disappointingis the word. Disappointing maybe compared to if they traded him in 2023 but they would have crucified for that. No one should be disappointed in what they get right not for his value right now. Then Chris Getz should quit his job if he is too scared to do it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 (edited) 32 minutes ago, T R U said: Nobody with a grip on reality should complain about the eventual return for him. The complaints should be about not unloading him when they decided to nuke the roster like they should have. I think we all know the return is going to be very disappointing as it should be given his play and contract. ^this. I’d be more mad about the timing. I wouldn’t have gambled on him this year and moved him. Edited June 23 by Bob Sacamano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloydBannister1983 Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 50 minutes ago, poppysox said: TLR is the gift that keeps on giving. By far, the biggest mistake in JR's ownership. No. The Harper and Clemens failures were bigger mistakes. They were face of the organization stars and would have lent credibility to the organization. AJ Hinch or Renteria would not have kept the ship sailing in the right direction. Maybe they wouldn’t have been as embarrassing as LaRussa, sure, but these young guys with extensions would have still injured themselves under different managers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloydBannister1983 Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 47 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Or better yet, where the GM actually gets to hire his own manager (AJ Hinch) instead of Jerry's drinking buddy. I thought AJ was the right hire at the time but I don’t see how he prevents these too guys from being out of shape and getting hurt. They rewarded these guys too early. Whoever pointed that out was right. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloydBannister1983 Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 39 minutes ago, ptatc said: I agree. But I dont think disappointingis the word. Disappointing maybe compared to if they traded him in 2023 but they would have crucified for that. No one should be disappointed in what they get right not for his value right now. They would have crucified him more than they did for a 121 loss season? At least he would have had a “rebuilding” excuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 10 minutes ago, FloydBannister1983 said: They would have crucified him more than they did for a 121 loss season? At least he would have had a “rebuilding” excuse. This too. Look, if Getz really knew how bad things were, and just lied to everyone about competing soon, he had to know that Robert was always at least a huge injury risk, and the mere act of running him out to play again was a huge gamble. Taking a bit less at his peak was always better than him being hurt and regression. And if he is so worried about how everyone else feels, he should find another job. He should know better than everyone else. As Stacey said, if you're scared, get a dog. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted June 23 Share Posted June 23 somewhere there's going to be a "please read my blog" author coming up with another rumor that some GM was going to make a great trade for Robert too many hindsight experts habitual losing organizations (and fans) trade players at what they perceive will be peak value for their rebuild of the rebuild rebuild. It never creates consistent winning. It tells fans they can't have nice things. Take some of the best players in the game and if they were on the Sox the above would apply. While the future looks sorta bright the Sox don't have that impact player and who is to say some of those will still be on the team if the good Montgomery makes it to the majors. If PCA were a White Sox he would be shopped around because he is looking for a contract. Despite all of this nonsense I posted JR is a curse like some other owners are. Even with him out of the picture how long will it take for that rebuild of the rebuild rebuild. I don't know if I will exist long enough to know that. I forgot what is was like for the trade frenzy discussions on improving the team on the field instead of making Birmingham better. Do ya think they are like that on the North Side? I don't hate the Cubs but I'm sure jealous of them. Welcome to baseball hell. It has to be beyond miserable for Sox fan- Cub haters. It's baseball hell for veteran and dumpster dive players since their hopes are getting traded to play some meaningful baseball. All we get out of it is ooh we gotta stocked farm - whatever that means. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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