The Mighty Mite Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 14 minutes ago, Highland said: I could care less about the Cubs. The Sox have no direction. This rebuild is going nowhere. During the two plus years, the Sox are around 140 games under .500. That is not rebuilding. That is tanking and calling it a rebuild. What are they going to do next off season? Sign a bunch of over-the-hill veterans and cut them before spring training ends? I've never seen this team this bad, and I've been around for a time. I don't care if they got swept by the Cubs. They can get swept by anyone. And get swept often. I’m with you, this is not a rebuild. I’ve been a fan since the early 50s and never have I seen an organization and team this bad and I have no clue what the game plan is. Sometimes I feel like this tanking is being done on purpose to shrink the fan base even more and no one would care if JR sold to someone in another city and the Chicago White Sox were no more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WBWSF Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 1) The White Sox outfield and DH positions have to have the worse batting averages in MLB. This should have been addressed this off season. Of course JR doesn't care about improving the team. 2) Losing 8 games in a row to the Cubs is another low for the franchise. This Cubs team is a good team but it isn't the 1927 Yankees. Obviously this doesn't bother the management team. But it bothers White Sox fans like myself. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WBWSF Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 9 minutes ago, The Mighty Mite said: I’m with you, this is not a rebuild. I’ve been a fan since the early 50s and never have I seen an organization and team this bad and I have no clue what the game plan is. Sometimes I feel like this tanking is being done on purpose to shrink the fan base even more and no one would care if JR sold to someone in another city and the Chicago White Sox were no more. The new owners will be Mat and Justin Ishbia. Needless to say I'm hoping they take over sooner rather than later. I don't think they will move the team out of Chicago. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highland Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 14 minutes ago, WBWSF said: The new owners will be Mat and Justin Ishbia. Needless to say I'm hoping they take over sooner rather than later. I don't think they will move the team out of Chicago. I agree. The Sox are not going anywhere. What we don't know is when they will be competitive again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WBWSF Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 9 minutes ago, Highland said: I agree. The Sox are not going anywhere. What we don't know is when they will be competitive again. If the Ishbia brothers took over this off season they would sign some free agents which would help the young players the team has now. If they sign 2 outfielders who can hit and a good relief pitcher this would be a much better team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Mite Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 9 minutes ago, WBWSF said: The new owners will be Mat and Justin Ishbia. Needless to say I'm hoping they take over sooner rather than later. I don't think they will move the team out of Chicago. I hope you are right but I’ve seen a lot in the last 73 years, I saw the beloved Brooklyn Dodgers move to LA along with Willie Mays and the NY Giants to San Francisco. The Colts pack up and move in the middle of the night from Baltimore to Indianapolis, the Cleveland Browns, one of the greatest NFL franchises ever move to Baltimore. The Rams leaving Los Angeles but then returning. The original A’s now moving to their 4th city, the Boston Braves now in their 3rd city. The White Sox are no better than any of those franchises and Chicago isn’t the place it once was, by 2030 both Houston and Dallas will overtake Chicago in population. Like I said, I hope you are right but we are dealing with one of the biggest scumbags in pro sports with Reinsdorf and I trust him as far as I can throw him. Bottom line it would break my heart if the Sox left Chicago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 8 minutes ago, WBWSF said: If the Ishbia brothers took over this off season they would sign some free agents which would help the young players the team has now. If they sign 2 outfielders who can hit and a good relief pitcher this would be a much better team. They could have brought in Soto and Alonso this winter and would still be significantly under .500. This team is closer to 20 players away vs 2. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 50 minutes ago, Highland said: I could care less about the Cubs. The Sox have no direction. This rebuild is going nowhere. During the two plus years, the Sox are around 140 games under .500. That is not rebuilding. That is tanking and calling it a rebuild. What are they going to do next off season? Sign a bunch of over-the-hill veterans and cut them before spring training ends? I've never seen this team this bad, and I've been around for a time. I don't care if they got swept by the Cubs. They can get swept by anyone. And get swept often. This is an interesting question. With the almost certainty that the owners are going to lock out the players as soon as the 2026 season ends and with a very good chance at least, at least, a good part of the 2027 season is wiped out, JR may not do anything after this year but order the payroll cut even more knowing that not as many games are going to be played in 2027. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 (edited) 1 hour ago, TheBooneLoganEra said: I dont understand folks in the fanbase who are okay with horrid, horrid baseball because rebuild. Sox have long been awful at talent evaluation and Getz is a large part of that. Do you think it's Jerry's idea that year after year we run with no closer at all? Then when the team has 30 blown saves we watch them scratch their heads then do the same thing next season. Jerry being a cheap prick? Big reason why they're terrible. Getz constructed an awful roster and spending that little money in awful ways? Also large part of the blame. Not like the minors are bursting at the seams with talent. Our former #1 prospect is batting .174 in aaa and we have approximately 1 potential stud looking offensive player. Getz is a giant, whopping failure. I got no answers for you. You're not making any specific charges. It's just generalizing and putting everything in a barrel. It's not something to be happy about but losing comes with rebuilding only now Reinsdorf is estate planning his eventual demise. It's worse than just rebuilding. Complaining about no closer during a rebuild is ridiculous. I complain about things going on too however. What I don't do is complain about Palacios , Amaya,Eisert or Rojas , Tauchman ,Slater , Jankowski or any of the other bums and blame Getz for his talent evaluation. They were bums before they got here. They were hired to continue being bums just not the worst of the worst bums but some injuries and you're playing a lot of your minor league AAAA types a lot more. Trading deadline there's more talent gone. I don't like giving up $500K in Intl bonus pool money for a guy like Castro. It sucks to see it happening again and again over the years. I hated the decision to resign Vaughn but I understand why I guess. I hated the Fedde trade too because it seemed a player light and Vargas had some hitting tools that hadn't translated to MLB in his time with the Dodgers and very hard to know much about the 2 minor league players they got . Immediate instant reaction isn't always correct . Hell even 8 months later it still looked bad. Now for a month it's looked much better but you still can't say for certain the final outcome. Reinsdorf ignored scouting and development and stuck his nose into the amateur drafting domestically and internationally for a very long time especially his policies in the DR where he decided he didn't want to do things the way a lot of other teams were doing it. Yet it was his or KW guys who got busted for skimming money. When you don't pay those people like people from other organizations do, you get the bottom of the barrel scouts and executives too. Or you recycle TLR, another example of Reinsdorf sticking his nose in because he's the one paying for it all. KW 1st time GM, Hahn 1st time GM, Getz 1st time GM . Notice a pattern ? Edited May 18 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wegner Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 47 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Look I'm not going to talk about Getz being good to a pissed off bunch of Sox fans who just lost 3 straight to the Cubs. That's a losing battle. That's a losing battle even trying to do it without losing 3 games to the Cubs. Not going to die on that hill. I will say judging baseball talent is not easy when picking young players that are supposed to be the best in the world in the draft. So how are you supposed to judge talent with any accuracy when choosing from some of the worst but once promising talent over 25 years old ? You try picking from a 200+ player pool of guys who have been up and down from AAA to MLB a few times with 1 or 2 options left and that's who you're stocking your MLB team and AAA team with . Or some ML vets down on their luck or recovering from bad seasons or injury getting signed for $1-3M . How many times were there people screaming about Vargas who didn't even know about Jeral Perez ? Now Vargas is hitting and playing a decent 3rd base. That trade is looking better now that 2 of the 3 in that trade are performing better. The Crochet trade looking great so far. Cease trade so far not so good but I don't think he was getting very good offers. These are things most fans don't consider. I still think the worst thing Getz did was not trading Robert after 2023. You see another person saying that now around here. He is just copying me because I said it 1st . I'm just trying to look at everything as much as possible. Reinsdorf hired Getz didn't he. If it wasn't Getz it wouldn't have been anyone any better. It would have been another eager young man 1st time GM working under the same restrictions. There's a reason why the Sox have never drafted and developed a star player from the Dominican Republic when it develops the most MLB players than any country besides the US and his name is Jerry Reinsdorf. Anyone who talks about Getz more than Reinsdorf is not looking at the big picture . Reinsdorf is obviously the biggest problem. I am just not going to defend a guy who was head of player development who never developed any talent. Watching someone fail upwards is very frustrating for me. You think Getz is decent at his job with the limitations of having JR as his owner...I just disagree. 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBooneLoganEra Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 31 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: They could have brought in Soto and Alonso this winter and would still be significantly under .500. This team is closer to 20 players away vs 2. Quality veteran ballplayers make everyone around them better. Something not measured in WAR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 22 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said: This is an interesting question. With the almost certainty that the owners are going to lock out the players as soon as the 2026 season ends and with a very good chance at least, at least, a good part of the 2027 season is wiped out, JR may not do anything after this year but order the payroll cut even more knowing that not as many games are going to be played in 2027. Exactly and I've brought that up too. It's Jerry making sure the Sox are sold after his death with nothing on the books, no long term debt . For the strike no guaranteed contracts to pay. He'll lose less money during the strike than anyone. Again I talk about it being a rebuild but I have also call it JR estate planning. This is the cheapest of the cheap Reinsdorf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 (edited) 22 minutes ago, wegner said: Reinsdorf is obviously the biggest problem. I am just not going to defend a guy who was head of player development who never developed any talent. Watching someone fail upwards is very frustrating for me. You think Getz is decent at his job with the limitations of having JR as his owner...I just disagree. And I'm just not going to blame a puppet hired to be bad or with no GMing experience. I don't care who you are . You will not succeed under those circumstances. It's like asking a firemen to put out a roaring 5 story building fire to extinguish it with a garden hose and 5 foot ladder. Edited May 18 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 29 minutes ago, TheBooneLoganEra said: Quality veteran ballplayers make everyone around them better. Something not measured in WAR. We went through the stars and failures era. It didn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 24 minutes ago, TheBooneLoganEra said: Quality veteran ballplayers make everyone around them better. Something not measured in WAR. No they don't make everyone around them better . They just push the bottom people off the MLB roster. You could still have 10 other people who suck or a bunch of injuries and win 65 games. And they cost money Jerry wasn't going to pay for. Do you honestly think Getz could've signed 5 players for $10M each ? Or even 1 $10M player ? If that $10M guy is the closer he pitches less than any other pitcher on the roster because there's not a lot of games to close and maybe you get a good prospect at the TDL . Or maybe he's not exactly the best closer around for only $10M and he flops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wegner Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 36 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: And I'm just not going to blame a puppet hired to be bad or with no GMing experience. I don't care who you are . You will not succeed under those circumstances. It's like asking a firemen to put out a roaring 5 story building fire to extinguish it with a garden hose and 5 foot ladder. Don't get me started on incompetent firemen!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBooneLoganEra Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 35 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: No they don't make everyone around them better . They just push the bottom people off the MLB roster. You could still have 10 other people who suck or a bunch of injuries and win 65 games. And they cost money Jerry wasn't going to pay for. Do you honestly think Getz could've signed 5 players for $10M each ? Or even 1 $10M player ? If that $10M guy is the closer he pitches less than any other pitcher on the roster because there's not a lot of games to close and maybe you get a good prospect at the TDL . Or maybe he's not exactly the best closer around for only $10M and he flops. No. I didn't imply or suggest that. And yes, if for instance Soto was batting behind Luis Robert, Luis Robert would get better pitches to hit, and potentially would perform better. Maybe not. But there's probably. Then the hitter in front of him and so on. I feel like this is really basic and fairly obvious, but I digress. I'm not arguing Jerry isn't largely responsible, he is. But random dude on the street could've done a better job the Getz since he took over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrockway Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 imagine spending 3 hours being annoyed and then spending another 3 hours talking about how those 3 hours annoyed you 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoUEvenShift Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 16 minutes ago, nrockway said: imagine spending 3 hours being annoyed and then spending another 3 hours talking about how those 3 hours annoyed you Welcome to SoxTalk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tray Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 So let's say ishbia or some conglomerate like Live Nation owned the Sox in 2024. What do you think they could have done to elevate the Sox line-up, rotation and bullpen ...not just incrementally, but enough to compete with the Cubs? Two or three FA signings? Uh no. Did you watch any of the 3 games ? The Cubs line-up is stacked ...8 deep now and likely will add a hitter to bolster it further. Maybe not far from the '27 Yankees. Look, the Sox were the worst team in baseball last season and they just faced one of the best teams. It is what it is. The WSox are not going to build a line-up like the cubs have for a long, ,long time. Star FAs will become available in the future but most will sign elsewhere, including with the cubs. As for now, to paraphrase Dennis Green, the cubs are who we thought they were. Crown their ass and grab some bench. I know, it hurts, but it is what it is. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, and sometimes you just get your ass kicked. Ouch. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 (edited) 13 minutes ago, tray said: So let's say ishbia or some conglomerate like Live Nation owned the Sox in 2024. What do you think they could have done to elevate the Sox line-up, rotation and bullpen ...not just incrementally, but enough to compete with the Cubs? Two or three FA signings? Uh no. Did you watch any of the 3 games ? The Cubs line-up is stacked ...8 deep now and likely will add a hitter to bolster it further. Maybe not far from the '27 Yankees. Look, the Sox were the worst team in baseball last season and they just faced one of the best teams. It is what it is. The WSox are not going to build a line-up like the cubs have for a long, ,long time. Star FAs will become available in the future but most will sign elsewhere, including with the cubs. As for now, to paraphrase Dennis Green, the cubs are who we thought they were. Crown their ass and grab some bench. I know, it hurts, but it is what it is. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, and sometimes you just get your ass kicked. Ouch. And what happens when they don't pay up $500-600 million for Kyle Tucker at the end of the season? Their rotation is still thin...Steele won't be back until mid season next year and their closing situation is far from a sure thing with Hodge now. Beating up on the White Sox is one thing. The Cubs looked they were starstruck by the Dodgers that first series in Tokyo. And the Cardinals are right on their heels now. And Carson Kelly won't be the best or second best hitting catchers in baseball months from now. Edited May 19 by caulfield12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgrittenburg Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 6 hours ago, Soxfest said: Robert makes the catch all the time, yet against Cubs not today that's a ridiculous statement he was nowhere close to the ball, if anything, he was playing to shallow to begin with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 1 hour ago, wegner said: Don't get me started on incompetent firemen!!! In this scenario I think we are recruiting retired plumbers to fight fires, because they have experience with water. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 36 minutes ago, nrockway said: imagine spending 3 hours being annoyed and then spending another 3 hours talking about how those 3 hours annoyed you As opposed to needing to read everything about those who are annoyed, and then telling them how annoyed you are that they are annoyed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 19 minutes ago, tray said: So let's say ishbia or some conglomerate like Live Nation owned the Sox in 2024. What do you think they could have done to elevate the Sox line-up, rotation and bullpen ...not just incrementally, but enough to compete with the Cubs? Two or three FA signings? Uh no. Did you watch any of the 3 games ? The Cubs line-up is stacked ...8 deep now and likely will add a hitter to bolster it further. Maybe not far from the '27 Yankees. Look, the Sox were the worst team in baseball last season and they just faced one of the best teams. It is what it is. The WSox are not going to build a line-up like the cubs have for a long, ,long time. Star FAs will become available in the future but most will sign elsewhere, including with the cubs. As for now, to paraphrase Dennis Green, the cubs are who we thought they were. Crown their ass and grab some bench. I know, it hurts, but it is what it is. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, and sometimes you just get your ass kicked. Ouch. If they were owners in 2019, we don't come in 2nd place for Machado and/or Harper, I know that much from their work in Pho 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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