21 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

That's exactly right. Even though the area is safer than it's ever been. The easiest stadium for the masses to get to in the city, JR can't admit the reason people dont show up is his fault. Nope, it's the neighborhood.

This must be why teams across MLB are falling all over themselves to follow the Sox successful stadium model - lots of parking lots and right off an expressway. Perfect. They're all jealous of the White Sox juggernaut.

The area is safe, but it doesn't matter - people just aren't interesting in going to Bridgeport unless its for a Sox game. In the last 30 years, the Sox have been in the top half in MLB attendance only once (2006). That is it, even when they were fielding pretty good teams they were bottom half of the league. Anecdotal examples from individual fans doesn't change that reality.

17 minutes ago, 77 Hitmen said:

This must be why teams across MLB are falling all over themselves to follow the Sox successful stadium model - lots of parking lots and right off an expressway. Perfect. They're all jealous of the White Sox juggernaut.

The area is safe, but it doesn't matter - people just aren't interesting in going to Bridgeport unless its for a Sox game. In the last 30 years, the Sox have been in the top half in MLB attendance only once (2006). That is it, even when they were fielding pretty good teams they were bottom half of the league. Anecdotal examples from individual fans doesn't change that reality.

The reason people don't come isn't because it's Bridgeport. It's because JR doesn't know how to build a team that is supposed to win. A successful team with endless parking lots draws a ton of people 90 miles away. Ever been to Milwaukee?

39 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

The reason people don't come isn't because it's Bridgeport. It's because JR doesn't know how to build a team that is supposed to win. A successful team with endless parking lots draws a ton of people 90 miles away. Ever been to Milwaukee?

It can be both. It's JR's mishandling of the team and the location. If the Sox built the perfect stadium at the best location....but still ran the team Jerry's way, I totally agree that they'll have trouble drawing fans after a new ballpark "bounce" wears off. But 15th or worse in the league in attendance every year since 1995 except for the 1 time they were reigning WS champs - those are the numbers and they weren't losing 100 games all of those 30 years. Argue all you want, but those numbers are what they are. That includes all the Thomas, Konerko, Buehrle, AJ, Thome years when the team had players with lots name recognition and were pretty decent on the field.

Yep, I've been to Milwaukee. I mentioned them above. They obviously succeed in drawing fans at a ballpark with nothing around it. They're also an outlier in MLB in making that work. Maybe someone here from Wisconsin can explain that because I can't. But the last thing I want the next Sox owners to do is look for single outliers and conclude that it obviously will work here.....even though it hasn't for 30+ years.

At the risk of annoying people, I'd like to try steering things into talk about ideas. For a moment, let's just presume as a given that the next location for the stadium will be at the 78 or directly across the river from it (where the rail yard/landswap deal is happening). Set aside personal opinions/feelings about that, or alternative location ideas, or why the current site is or is not good.

Just start at this point: a new White Sox Stadium at the 78/across from the 78 opening in the year 203x. If it helps, assume that you can park easily in a multilevel garage or take public transportation right to the location.

What would you want to have surrounding the stadium? What features would make you happy to have inside of it? How would you want the seating? What about different food? Party areas? There's always going to be suites. Would you have clubs? How many kinds? Etc. Etc.

1 hour ago, Dick Allen said:

The reason people don't come isn't because it's Bridgeport. It's because JR doesn't know how to build a team that is supposed to win. A successful team with endless parking lots draws a ton of people 90 miles away. Ever been to Milwaukee?

Jerry's Boys are doing pretty well so far this year.

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

And Jerry has already started the same process on the west side near the UC. This is OBVIOUSLY something they want, and something they feel won't work in Bridgeport, for whatever reason. It is also hard to argue with the fact that they have been there for 125 years, and nothing is currently there to any extent around the park.

And the whole, "walk five blocks and find this bar" thing isn't what I am talking about.

The most successful model is of a sports arena as an anchor tenant in a mall of entertainment. With the White Sox dead last in MLB in revenue, of course they are looking at ways to expand that number appreciably in the future.

This is reality of today's economics in sports. Could the Sox do this at the current location.....build some sort of "Comiskeyville" entertainment district at 35th and Shields where businesses could thrive the 250 days a year the Sox aren't playing a home game? Like you said, they (JR and Ishbia) apparently feel that won't work there.

Edited Monday at 04:22 PM3 days by 77 Hitmen

17 minutes ago, h. jones said:

At the risk of annoying people, I'd like to try steering things into talk about ideas. For a moment, let's just presume as a given that the next location for the stadium will be at the 78 or directly across the river from it (where the rail yard/landswap deal is happening). Set aside personal opinions/feelings about that, or alternative location ideas, or why the current site is or is not good.

Just start at this point: a new White Sox Stadium at the 78/across from the 78 opening in the year 203x. If it helps, assume that you can park easily in a multilevel garage or take public transportation right to the location.

What would you want to have surrounding the stadium? What features would make you happy to have inside of it? How would you want the seating? What about different food? Party areas? There's always going to be suites. Would you have clubs? How many kinds? Etc. Etc.

A ballpark village like they have in St. Louis would be awesome. Restaurants, bars, activities, fan shops. Inside, just make it unique and functional. Don't have a huge upper level that will never fill up. A club level with more rows would be nice, maybe 10 instead of 6. A cool section in the outfield like the Miller Landing but with more seats and less SRO. A lower outfield section where balls could exit the stadium, maybe into the river, would be perfect. I haven't been to a lot of stadiums, but something like PNC Park with a ballpark village like St. Louis would be ideal. Sightlines with the city behind the outfield.

As far as concessions, the Sox do a pretty good job with food and drinks. Don't sacrifice that for anything else. And make sure there are plenty of options for buying souvenirs and gear.

22 minutes ago, tray said:

Jerry's Boys are doing pretty well so far this year.

They need to get to .500 before we can declare this.

27 minutes ago, tray said:

Jerry's Boys are doing pretty well so far this year.

And are currently 25th in attendance.

54 minutes ago, h. jones said:

At the risk of annoying people, I'd like to try steering things into talk about ideas. For a moment, let's just presume as a given that the next location for the stadium will be at the 78 or directly across the river from it (where the rail yard/landswap deal is happening). Set aside personal opinions/feelings about that, or alternative location ideas, or why the current site is or is not good.

Just start at this point: a new White Sox Stadium at the 78/across from the 78 opening in the year 203x. If it helps, assume that you can park easily in a multilevel garage or take public transportation right to the location.

What would you want to have surrounding the stadium? What features would make you happy to have inside of it? How would you want the seating? What about different food? Party areas? There's always going to be suites. Would you have clubs? How many kinds? Etc. Etc.

Great question!

Surrounding the ballpark:

• A ballpark village like @hogan873 described.

• Parking that is well distributed between both sides of the river so that drivers can come in from all directions to spread out the traffic.

• A decent amount of green space. With the total acreage of the 78 and the Amtrak yard being 62+47, there should be enough room to accommodate more than just the 2 stadiums, "ballpark village" retail, and parking garages.

• A pedestrian bridge somewhere connecting the two sites - not just the sidewalk on Roosevelt.

• Lower the grade of the Rock Island Metra tracks to open up access from Clark St.

• Game-day Metra stops for the Rock Island line to the east and the BNSF and SWS lines to the west (though proximity to Union and LaSalle St stations might not make that necessary)

• New Red Line stop at 15th & Clark

....and my dream list for a new Sox ballpark itself:

• Again, many of @hogan873 's suggestions

• Exterior brickwork that harkens back to Old Comiskey

• Keep the lower box rows at 8 seats across like at Rate Field. This might not be realistic since that cuts into the number of prime seats in the lower level, but it is one of the great things about the lower box area now.

• Seats down the line that angle toward the infield.

• Entrance to the lower concourse at street level. Avoid the long ramps/escalator ride like now just to get to the lower deck.

Edited Monday at 05:50 PM3 days by 77 Hitmen

1 hour ago, Quin said:

They need to get to .500 before we can declare this.

They were .500 in April. The first month they have been at least .500 since June of 2023.

57 minutes ago, 77 Hitmen said:

Great question!

Surrounding the ballpark:

• A ballpark village like @hogan873 described.

• Parking that is well distributed between both sides of the river so that drivers can come in from all directions to spread out the traffic.

• A decent amount of green space. With the total acreage of the 78 and the Amtrak yard being 62+47, there should be enough room to accommodate more than just the 2 stadiums, "ballpark village" retail, and parking garages.

• A pedestrian bridge somewhere connecting the two sites - not just the sidewalk on Roosevelt.

• Lower the grade of the Rock Island Metra tracks to open up access from Clark St.

• Game-day Metra stops for the Rock Island line to the east and the BNSF and SWS lines to the west (though proximity to Union and LaSalle St stations might not make that necessary)

• New Red Line stop at 15th & Clark

Green space is an interesting suggestion...I LOVE Petco Park for a ton of reasons. One of them is the "look" of a park beyond CF. That said...if you are looking for an urban feel (not saying you are) I wonder how much green space can be created and still max out on what the developers will be looking for (profits).

I enjoy thinking about a future ballpark and I enjoy looking at past ballparks and what makes them unique. Good topic of conversation!

1 hour ago, 77 Hitmen said:

• Keep the lower box rows at 8 seats across like at Rate Field. This might not be realistic since that cuts into the number of prime seats in the lower level, but it is one of the great things about the lower box area now.

This is a great example of a nuance/quirk of the stadium design, and something that I hadn't noticed about Rate Field.

Edited Monday at 07:18 PM3 days by h. jones

Urban greenspace could be achieved by having a convertible stadium-adjacent ballyard that is slightly larger than the Fundamentals deck.

On game days it gets gated off for paid admission only.

On non-game days, it is an open greenspace that can complement neighboring / adjacent cafes and restaurants.

7 hours ago, 77 Hitmen said:

This must be why teams across MLB are falling all over themselves to follow the Sox successful stadium model - lots of parking lots and right off an expressway. Perfect. They're all jealous of the White Sox juggernaut.

The area is safe, but it doesn't matter - people just aren't interesting in going to Bridgeport unless its for a Sox game. In the last 30 years, the Sox have been in the top half in MLB attendance only once (2006). That is it, even when they were fielding pretty good teams they were bottom half of the league. Anecdotal examples from individual fans doesn't change that reality

Comiskey, Rate and the previously proposed Armor Park are in a South side neighborhood that fans have been going to for over 100 years. Placing the stadium in a considerably less accessible, less convenient location could very well result in fewer fans attending games, not more. And unlike many North side Cub fans who use trains/mass transit, White Sox fans, especially families, are probably not going to take a train from far SW suburbs to get there for various reasons, one of which is that most White Sox games are at night.

There is no "entertainment area" within walking distance of the 78 or the Amtrak site. I suggested an alternative at 18th and Canal which might have possibilities, but Ishbia doesn't own that.

Finally, let's not be so quick to characterize Reinsdorfs as being "cheap" a meme that is doubly terrible considering his ethnicity. Everyone knows that Reinsdorf has made many baseball related decisions that have been wrong. However, in most cases , as Chairman, he relied on GMs and Managers. I am not a judge of character, but it seems that JR has been pretty fair to players and employees over the past 40+ years. He and his late wife have also used their status and their money to support philanthropic causes, engage the South side community (i.e., the Ace program) and reach out to handicapped and underprivileged kids. If people who have a lot of time left in their lives choose to hate him, go ahead and wait to see what comes next

Unlike Ishbia, no one can accuse Jerry of conspicuous consumption and greed. Not so for the owner(s) of the Phoenix Suns. I guess lessons from Private Equity were learned about milking corporations. Beware Michael.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/48223856/suns-ownership-dispute-settled-mediation

Edited Monday at 10:17 PM3 days by tray

21 minutes ago, tray said:

Comiskey, Rate and the previously proposed Armor Park are in a South side neighborhood that fans have been going to for over 100 years. Placing the stadium in a considerably less accessible, less convenient location could very well result in fewer fans attending games, not more. And unlike many North side Cub fans who use trains/mass transit, White Sox fans, especially families, are probably not going to take a train from far SW suburbs to get there for various reasons, one of which is that most White Sox games are at night.

There is no "entertainment area" within walking distance of the 78 or the Amtrak site. I suggested an alternative at 18th and Canal which might have possibilities, but Ishbia doesn't own that.

Finally, let's not be so quick to characterize Reinsdorfs as being "cheap" a meme that is doubly terrible considering his ethnicity. Everyone knows that Reinsdorf has made many baseball related decisions that have been wrong. However, in most cases , as Chairman, he relied on GMs and Managers. I am not a judge of character, but it seems that JR has been pretty fair to players and employees over the past 40+ years. He and his late wife have also used their status and their money to support philanthropic causes, engage the South side community (i.e., the Ace program) and reach out to handicapped and underprivileged kids. If people who have a lot of time left in their lives choose to hate him, go ahead and wait to see what comes next

Unlike Ishbia, no one can accuse Jerry of conspicuous consumption and greed. Not so for the owner(s) of the Phoenix Suns. I guess lessons from Private Equity were learned about milking corporations. Beware Michael.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/48223856/suns-ownership-dispute-settled-mediation

People qualifying Jerry as cheap has been wholly owned by his actions as Bulls ans Sox owner and has nothing to do with yet another trope you are hung up on.

42 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

People qualifying Jerry as cheap has been wholly owned by his actions as Bulls ans Sox owner and has nothing to do with yet another trope you are hung up on.

You always choose the easiest possible route issuing personal attacks including. in this case, a strange, untruthful, and unsupported accusation of antisemitism. You have a lot of nerve but sitting behind the keyboard that doesn't take much. I could say more, but I respect the forum rules so I'll leave it at that. Never enough for you though. Keeps stalking my posts.

15 minutes ago, tray said:

You always choose the easiest possible route issuing personal attacks including. in this case, a strange, untruthful, and unsupported accusation of antisemitism. You have a lot of nerve but sitting behind the keyboard that doesn't take much. I could say more, but I respect the forum rules so I'll leave it at that. Never enough for you though. Keeps stalking my posts.

No, you don't get you make unfounded lies and pretend otherwise. Repeatedly posting racist tropes is literally the easiest possible argument on the planet. If you want to ACTUALLY follow forum rules you will drop the racist garbage.

Your stalking my posts with hate laughs, plus the veiled tropes just go to show you accuse of what you practice.

Jerry is the owner of the single MLB team left that has never given out a $100+ million dollar contract to a player. $75 million was the highest as we know. I don’t think it’s anti-semitic to say that Jerry is risk-averse and frugal at the very least and more harshly flat-out cheap when it comes to handing out large guaranteed player contracts.

Edited Tuesday at 12:14 AM3 days by WhiteSox2023

15 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Jerry is the owner of the single MLB team left that has never given out a $100+ million dollar contract to a player. $75 million was the highest as we know. I don’t think it’s anti-semitic to say that Jerry is risk-averse and frugal at the very least and more harshly flat-out cheap when it comes to handing out large guaranteed player contracts.

Some well known facts.

-The Sox are well known for having one of the smallest front offices in baseball.

-The Sox have one of the smallest scouting staffs in baseball.

-The Sox have zero far east staff.

-Even with the new clinic in Latin America, the Sox are way under invested there, both in scouts and staff.

-The Sox are the only team in MLB who haven't give out a nine figure deal.

-If it weren't for Chris begging Jerry for Murakami, the Sox would be dead last in MLB in payroll despite being a major market team.

-The Sox are behind all of MLB in their advanced stats work, and instead of developing their own proprietary data, they are hiring interns to interpret data.

And I haven't even touched the Bulls yet.

13 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Some well known facts.

-The Sox are well known for having one of the smallest front offices in baseball.

-The Sox have one of the smallest scouting staffs in baseball.

-The Sox have zero far east staff.

-Even with the new clinic in Latin America, the Sox are way under invested there, both in scouts and staff.

-The Sox are the only team in MLB who haven't give out a nine figure deal.

-If it weren't for Chris begging Jerry for Murakami, the Sox would be dead last in MLB in payroll despite being a major market team.

-The Sox are behind all of MLB in their advanced stats work, and instead of developing their own proprietary data, they are hiring interns to interpret data.

And I haven't even touched the Bulls yet.

They added ONE Asian region scout, a Japanese former player/coach.

And they have Takatsu and Iguchi, lol.

4 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Jerry is the owner of the single MLB team left that has never given out a $100+ million dollar contract to a player. $75 million was the highest as we know. I don’t think it’s anti-semitic to say that Jerry is risk-averse and frugal at the very least and more harshly flat-out cheap when it comes to handing out large guaranteed player contracts.

Since the mid 80's JR's philosophy has been to be "fiscally responsible" (his words.) He simply will not take any major risks. That simply is not his way.

And his stance on MLB player salaries is well known.

22 hours ago, hogan873 said:

A ballpark village like they have in St. Louis would be awesome. Restaurants, bars, activities, fan shops. Inside, just make it unique and functional. Don't have a huge upper level that will never fill up. A club level with more rows would be nice, maybe 10 instead of 6. A cool section in the outfield like the Miller Landing but with more seats and less SRO. A lower outfield section where balls could exit the stadium, maybe into the river, would be perfect. I haven't been to a lot of stadiums, but something like PNC Park with a ballpark village like St. Louis would be ideal. Sightlines with the city behind the outfield.

As far as concessions, the Sox do a pretty good job with food and drinks. Don't sacrifice that for anything else. And make sure there are plenty of options for buying souvenirs and gear.

I'm going to go against the grain here.

The White Sox do NOT do a good job with food and drinks. They do good marketing with food and drinks, but their concessions (imo) are horribly run.

I don't go to tons of games at other stadiums, but I have to say it is rare to lose a full inning to waiting in concession lines. The white sox staff the bare minimum every day. It's actually easier to get food on a packed day than a slow one. Sitting in a light section? Sorry yr walkin halfway around to home plate to be in a massive, slow moving line.

Part of this is the food choice. They put stuff on there that cannot be served fast enough, that their part time emps aren't trained in.

Everything is just WAY too slow by how they staff it or their food. Give a 'gameday classics' stand that just has a bunch of hot dogs that are equal to the ones in the stands, and sling em out fast and I'll eat that trash before waiting for nachozilla or whatever the f*** they add each year that takes 4 innings to get.

1 hour ago, bmags said:

I'm going to go against the grain here.

The White Sox do NOT do a good job with food and drinks. They do good marketing with food and drinks, but their concessions (imo) are horribly run.

I don't go to tons of games at other stadiums, but I have to say it is rare to lose a full inning to waiting in concession lines. The white sox staff the bare minimum every day. It's actually easier to get food on a packed day than a slow one. Sitting in a light section? Sorry yr walkin halfway around to home plate to be in a massive, slow moving line.

Part of this is the food choice. They put stuff on there that cannot be served fast enough, that their part time emps aren't trained in.

Everything is just WAY too slow by how they staff it or their food. Give a 'gameday classics' stand that just has a bunch of hot dogs that are equal to the ones in the stands, and sling em out fast and I'll eat that trash before waiting for nachozilla or whatever the f*** they add each year that takes 4 innings to get.

Concessions are run by Levy, not the White Sox, and I went when it was empty this year and it was a good experience.

I definitely think the food is better than typical ball park food, but like anything at a stadium it can be a bit hit or miss.