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Two often repeated statements/ arguments on this board that now seem silly:


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1 hour ago, T R U said:

I’m not hating on anyone, once again you’re beating your chest over a team that’s going to win 60 or less games. Get a life dude, don’t drag me into your troll routine. 

Once again, records don’t matter.  Getz has a grace period of like 4 seasons before he is supposed to try to win.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Once again, records don’t matter.  Getz has a grace period of like 4 seasons before he is supposed to try to win.

All GMs do when starting a rebuild. I know you like to look things up, how many GMs have been fired in 3 years or under in any sport?

 

Edit: the great theo epstein in first 3 years with the Cubs. 101, 96 and 89 losses.

Edited by ptatc
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Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, ptatc said:

All GMs do when starting a rebuild. I know you like to look things up, how many GMs have been fired in 3 years or under in any sport?

 

Edit: the great theo epstein in first 3 years with the Cubs. 101, 96 and 89 losses.

So where is our Jon Lester cornerstone signing to indicate seriousness of intent?

And what was their record in Years 4-6 of the rebuild?

 

Edited by caulfield12
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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

So where is our Jon Lester cornerstone signing to indicate seriousness of intent?

And what was their record in Years 4-6 of the rebuild?

 

He conveniently left that out.  I also did say 4 years for Getz, not 3.  It’s obvious he’s going to already have two bad seasons under his belt.  And anyone that wouldn’t trade Getz for Epstein is insane.

Edited by WhiteSox2023
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10 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Once upon a time we had Steele Walker, Call, Fisher, Luis Gonzalez, Rutherford, Adolfo, Cespedes...none of those guys made it, except Call eventually with Wash.

Now there's only Zavala and Wolkow behind Braden...both those guys are becoming longshots, same with Veras at AA.

Wolkow just might get the benefit for now on age....but the profile is a bit of mess right now.

This seems to be the never ending problem even before Getz.

So every stud pitcher in the farm system I just look at as trade pieces to fill the never ending hole of position players.

Success will never be long term unless the spend money. There is no guarantee of that even in 2029.  They also seem to whiff even in the FA market.  

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1 hour ago, ptatc said:

All GMs do when starting a rebuild. I know you like to look things up, how many GMs have been fired in 3 years or under in any sport?

 

Edit: the great theo epstein in first 3 years with the Cubs. 101, 96 and 89 losses.

I wonder how many have been promoted to GM after being in charge of a bad farm system?

It still bothers me they have yet to draft a stud position player.  I just wish for once they would hit on a franchise player. 

If they ever did I have this fear of Reinsdorf's plan of fans can never have nice things.  Tony will probably mumble some bad idea, Reinsdorf buys it, Getz has to do it.

 

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10 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Will the GM's of the White Sox, Marlins, Rockies or Pirates ever get another baseball job at that level or higher in the future?

Seems highly highly unlikely...

If they succeed they probably leave.  

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14 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

I wonder how many have been promoted to GM after being in charge of a bad farm system?

It still bothers me they have yet to draft a stud position player.  I just wish for once they would hit on a franchise player. 

If they ever did I have this fear of Reinsdorf's plan of fans can never have nice things.  Tony will probably mumble some bad idea, Reinsdorf buys it, Getz has to do it.

 

I agree. However instead of dwelling on the past, I'm willing to give him a chance. And a chance doesn't expire 2 years into a rebuild.

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10 minutes ago, ptatc said:

I agree. However instead of dwelling on the past, I'm willing to give him a chance. And a chance doesn't expire 2 years into a rebuild.

I believe you mean “dwelling on much of the history of the franchise” under Jerry.  🤣

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8 minutes ago, ptatc said:

I agree. However instead of dwelling on the past, I'm willing to give him a chance. And a chance doesn't expire 2 years into a rebuild.

As long as Reinsdoef is around it will be a rebuild of a rebuild rebuild.

Those don't guarantee success.

What does it really mean (not using the White Sox yardstick) of being competitive again.  I guess there are always hopes the Sox get better while the other teams in their division get worse.  

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34 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

I wonder how many have been promoted to GM after being in charge of a bad farm system?

It still bothers me they have yet to draft a stud position player.  I just wish for once they would hit on a franchise player. 

If they ever did I have this fear of Reinsdorf's plan of fans can never have nice things.  Tony will probably mumble some bad idea, Reinsdorf buys it, Getz has to do it.

 

We might never know how Getz qualified for his job. 

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24 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

I believe you mean “dwelling on much of the history of the franchise” under Jerry.  🤣

Not what I meant but you can choose to read it any way you wish.

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26 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

As long as Reinsdoef is around it will be a rebuild of a rebuild rebuild.

Those don't guarantee success.

What does it really mean (not using the White Sox yardstick) of being competitive again.  I guess there are always hopes the Sox get better while the other teams in their division get worse.  

Imagine being gaslit for believing in what you have seen for 45 years isn't going to change.

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8 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Imagine being gaslit for believing in what you have seen for 45 years isn't going to change.

 In some ways it seems JR fooled us.  I remember to this day his first year as owner watching the opening day game with Fisk and Luzinsky.  Then there was the strike year when the talk in baseball was a  Sox-Braves WS.  Then the white flag trade which probably wouldn't happen now with expanded playoffs.  Then the TLR failure.

 Some of us are conditioned that we can't have nice things. Sox fans are not alone in this.  There's more than enough owners who are into cheap labor.  That idea of a salary cap wont fix that.  They will still suck but brag how much they are under the cap. 

  

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If this was 2016/17 all over again, that would be one thing.

We've already watched this show play out.

Now we're watching it with even fewer young potential superstars and one of the lowest payrolls in the majors as the base (after Robert is traded/dumped), they'll be below the Marlins even (ofc Miami is trying hard to dump their own big contract in Alcantara despite his sky-high ERA).

And then the stadium's another decade older as well...although that's FAR from the biggest issue at present, despite the numerous threads on the subject.

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10 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

If this was 2016/17 all over again, that would be one thing.

We've already watched this show play out.

Now we're watching it with even fewer young potential superstars and one of the lowest payrolls in the majors as the base (after Robert is traded/dumped), they'll be below the Marlins even (ofc Miami is trying hard to dump their own big contract in Alcantara despite his sky-high ERA).

And then the stadium's another decade older as well...although that's FAR from the biggest issue at present, despite the numerous threads on the subject.

The Marlins are another baseball hell. 

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https://champsorchumps.us/team/mlb/chicago-white-sox/worst-seasons

What seems even sillier is "celebrating" now being on a 54-108 pace, which would be the FOURTH worst season all-time in White Sox history.

 

Six of these seasons were direct fallout from the Black Sox scandal in 1919.

Six of these seasons were associated with the Hahn/Getz Era.

Three of these seasons with the post World War II Era.

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17 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I'm so confused by the chest pumping. The Sox have twice as many losses as wins and the worst record in the AL.

It’s your classic “lower the bar as far as you can so when you slightly raise it at the lowest point possible, we can call it progress!” 

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17 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I'm so confused by the chest pumping. The Sox have twice as many losses as wins and the worst record in the AL.

Who is chest pumping. I believe the sentiment is, they are showing improvement.

This goes back to all of the discussions. As soon as someone utters anything not negative, people start saying why do people think this team is good or why is anyone proud of this record.

Everyone realizes this team is bad. However, very few teams go from bad to playoffs in one season. It can happen but not often. 

Stating that they are showing progress does not mean someone thinks they are going to the playoffs or even good.

As I've stated many times, it is not dichotomous. They don't have to be world series champions or worst team of all time only. They can show improvement on the continuum.

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8 minutes ago, Tony said:

It’s your classic “lower the bar as far as you can so when you slightly raise it at the lowest point possible, we can call it progress!” 

Or that people have no concept of what progress means. 

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8 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Who is chest pumping. I believe the sentiment is, they are showing improvement.

This goes back to all of the discussions. As soon as someone utters anything not negative, people start saying why do people think this team is good or why is anyone proud of this record.

Everyone realizes this team is bad. However, very few teams go from bad to playoffs in one season. It can happen but not often. 

Stating that they are showing progress does not mean someone thinks they are going to the playoffs or even good.

As I've stated many times, it is not dichotomous. They don't have to be world series champions or worst team of all time only. They can show improvement on the continuum.

Ptac, who was here saying they were going to break their how record? Obviously they weren't going to be as bad as last year, but they're still absolutely awful. Certainly not worthy of gloating or I told you soing anyone. 

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