3 hours ago, Eminor3rd said:

The only way those revenue figures are accurate is if they are counting all concession/merchandise revenue 1:1, which is only true for teams that run their own concessions operation. Most don’t, using legends or Aramark or Delaware north or whatever, and those deals are profit sharing models. There are also a very wide range of parking arrangements, which are very lucrative because they are high margin. It’s not safe to assume the team sees all of that revenue, or even any in some cases if they share or utilize facilities controlled by the city.

2024 was also the final year before most of the RSN deals imploded. Knock 30-60M off those numbers and the percentages increase quite a bit.

 

Hardly any of the smaller market teams were getting $60 million under their RSN deals...

From all the SD local reporting, they were at $15-18 million under the 24-25 restructured mlb carriage deals.

$20-30 million off is probably closer to the average for the bottom 12-15 teams.

That said, with the Sox April CHSN chaos ... changing to a for pay structure, advertising buys getting comped due to low ratings…easy to imagine the White Sox were down roughly $50-million.

But that should start going back in the other direction the more teams are added to ESPN+/Disney.

2 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Hardly any of the smaller market teams were getting $60 million under their RSN deals...

From all the SD local reporting, they were at $15-18 million under the 24-25 restructured mlb carriage deals.

$20-30 million off is probably closer to the average for the bottom 12-15 teams.

That said, with the Sox April CHSN chaos ... changing to a for pay structure, advertising buys getting comped due to low ratings…easy to imagine the White Sox were down roughly $50-million.

But that should start going back in the other direction the more teams are added to ESPN+/Disney.

The Twins apparently went from ~$55M in RSN revenue to ~$5M.  Meanwhile, the Dodgers are getting over $300M annually from their RSN deal.  

The Cardinals have gone from $75M in TV revenue to $20M:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ijf4lkGd98&t=138s

 

4 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Hardly any of the smaller market teams were getting $60 million under their RSN deals...

From all the SD local reporting, they were at $15-18 million under the 24-25 restructured mlb carriage deals.

$20-30 million off is probably closer to the average for the bottom 12-15 teams.

That said, with the Sox April CHSN chaos ... changing to a for pay structure, advertising buys getting comped due to low ratings…easy to imagine the White Sox were down roughly $50-million.

But that should start going back in the other direction the more teams are added to ESPN+/Disney.

Right. I’ve been careful to keep saying “average” team. Outliers on both ends. 

https://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/article/mlb-viewership-up-44-percent-across-national-games-in-2026-the-leagues-best-showing-in-nearly-a-decade-170824713.html

mlb viewership up 44% across various platforms

On 7/16/2025 at 3:02 PM, 77 Hitmen said:

Maybe if I had a shred of hope of the Sox being good again in the next 3 or 4 years (we already have a 6 page thread about that), I'd actually share in this "ominous" feeling.  As it stands, I'm not going to lose sleep over it because IMO, my favorite team has been unwatchable for going on 3 years now with no end in sight by 2027.

 

They have been unwatchable since 2021, when Tony LaRussa was brought back to manage our team. I am regaining some optimism, but Jerry needs to turn over the managing partner title to Ishiba sooner rather than later.

On 7/18/2025 at 9:55 AM, southsider2k5 said:

-It is universally thought of as one of the most underwhelming facilities in baseball,  typically residing in the bottom three.

-There is no aesthetic or beauty to the park.

-There is only game day revenue from inside the park, as there is literally zero to do besides a game in the area.

-They absolutely did nothing to take advantage of their location within Chicago to emphasize the view or skyline.

-The commonly held belief is that the area it is isn't safe, despite the neighborhood around Wrigley having a higher crime rate.

Location, location, location.

Edited Wednesday at 07:49 PM3 days by DoUEvenShift

I love that the players are getting their stuff out there this time around.

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

I love that the players are getting their stuff out there this time around.

Story in the Athletic today that was really intertesting.

Crux of it was the owners really don't want a salary cap because of the league supposedly being at a competitive disadvantage where only some clubs can win but because the overall value of their franchises hasn't increased at the level that franchises have in the NBA and NFL which do have a cap.

Why am I not surprised at this from the owners?

Wonder what happens if the owners say they want a salary cap and then lockout the players for the entire 2027 season. Then when 2028 comes around they tell the players the same thing. I wonder if the players union would break after looking at another baseball season not being played.

9 minutes ago, WBWSF said:

Wonder what happens if the owners say they want a salary cap and then lockout the players for the entire 2027 season. Then when 2028 comes around they tell the players the same thing. I wonder if the players union would break after looking at another baseball season not being played.

The MLBPA is the strongest union in the world tempered and hardened by decades of not bowing to owners BS.

In your scenario I suspect they literally would go out and form their own league, plenty of mid sized cities would be glad to have them as opposed to giving in. Or guys would go off and play in the other leagues around the world.

And instead of the union breaking you may want to consider the owners falling apart first, after all history shows they have done this every...single...time.

6 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

The MLBPA is the strongest union in the world tempered and hardened by decades of not bowing to owners BS.

In your scenario I suspect they literally would go out and form their own league, plenty of mid sized cities would be glad to have them as opposed to giving in. Or guys would go off and play in the other leagues around the world.

And instead of the union breaking you may want to consider the owners falling apart first, after all history shows they have done this every...single...time.

I will preface my statement by saying I strongly support the players. That being said, I think the union is very weak right now. They have been getting rolled for the last several CBA negotiations and I am not optimistic that they have gained any resolve. If they actually end up backing Meyer, that will be a positive sign. But I feel like there's a lot of guys who will be willing to give up a lot in the name of some concessions to minor leaguers and fringey players. And frankly they need so much from the owners I don't know how they'll get it. Besides staving off the salary cap, they badly need a shorter timeline to free agency. In the last negotiations, owners wouldn't even talk to them about that subject. Of course, they also need to work on another subject that the owners have declared taboo, which is revenue sharing.

I do think you're right that the owners are not going to be quite as united of a front on all the particulars of the salary cap and other agenda items. The opening salvo will be a salary cap that is very low with a floor that is really, really low. Something assures every rich owner that he can have cost control for life and every tightass owner that he doesn't have to spend any additional money while he still gets to have cost control for life. If they got into a more serious discussion about a salary cap system that would use numbers more like the other major sports leagues, you'd see some owners who would absolutely balk at the kind of payrolls that would require. That is, unless they got revenue sharing like the other leagues do...in which case another set of owners would be putting up massive resistance. That's why I say you can't stick it to the players with a salary cap, let the owners work out their own problems if they don't like the revenue disparities.

All that said, my gut feeling is the end of this will look bad for the players and I don't think they will withstand much pressure from ownership in the form of missed paychecks and such. I know the PA has a war chest to keep the bills paid for their guys, but the rank and file will know that only lasts so long and they will want to get back on the field. Hope I'm wrong both about how much pressure the owners apply and how the union would respond.

Also the year of parity.

Only the Yankees and recently Dodgers are playing pretty well.

https://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/article/are-the-san-francisco-giants-this-seasons-most-disappointing-mlb-team-211953794.html

SFG Philly Cubs NYM Toronto Seattle have all disappointed.

Not sure where you put ATL...9-12. Not a true big market.

Milwaukee Pitt Minnesota StL CLE TB Oakland Sox and Cleveland battling for the mid market/lower revenue teams.

Edited Thursday at 01:40 AM3 days by caulfield12

Also the year of parity.

Only the Yankees and recently Dodgers are playing pretty well.

https://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/article/are-the-san-francisco-giants-this-seasons-most-disappointing-mlb-team-211953794.html

SFG Philly Cubs NYM Toronto Seattle have all disappointed.

Not sure where you put ATL...9-12. Not a true big market.

Pitt Minnesota StL CLE TB Oakland Sox and Cleveland battling for the mid market/lower revenue teams.

Also the year of parity.

Only the Yankees and recently Dodgers are playing pretty well.

https://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/article/are-the-san-francisco-giants-this-seasons-most-disappointing-mlb-team-211953794.html

SFG Philly Cubs NYM Toronto Seattle have all disappointed.

Not sure where you put ATL...9-12. Not a true big market.

Pitt Minnesota StL CLE TB Oakland Sox and Cleveland battling for the mid market/lower revenue teams.

Also the year of parity.

Only the Yankees and recently Dodgers are playing pretty well.

https://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/article/are-the-san-francisco-giants-this-seasons-most-disappointing-mlb-team-211953794.html

SFG Philly Cubs NYM Toronto Seattle have all disappointed.

Not sure where you put ATL...9-12. Not a true big market.

Pitt Minnesota StL CLE TB Oakland Sox and Cleveland battling for the mid market/lower revenue teams.

On 5/9/2026 at 7:28 AM, The Mighty Mite said:

On 7/18/2025 at 8:55 AM, southsider2k5 said:

-It is universally thought of as one of the most underwhelming facilities in baseball,  typically residing in the bottom three.

-There is no aesthetic or beauty to the park.

-There is only game day revenue from inside the park, as there is literally zero to do besides a game in the area.

-They absolutely did nothing to take advantage of their location within Chicago to emphasize the view or skyline.

-The commonly held belief is that the area it is isn't safe, despite the neighborhood around Wrigley having a higher crime rate.

See my post in the 78 thread explaining how Ricketts expanded his revenue stream while the ISFA stood pat leaving acres of undeveloped parking lots for decades.

It is not too late build at Armor Park and develop the surrounding property, like they should have done many years ago.

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

Also the year of parity.

Only the Yankees and recently Dodgers are playing pretty well.

https://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/article/are-the-san-francisco-giants-this-seasons-most-disappointing-mlb-team-211953794.html

SFG Philly Cubs NYM Toronto Seattle have all disappointed.

Not sure where you put ATL...9-12. Not a true big market.

Pitt Minnesota StL CLE TB Oakland Sox and Cleveland battling for the mid market/lower revenue teams.

Those May pennants fly forever.

Atlanta is absolutely a true big market team in MLB. Their territory is basically the entire deep South outside of Florida and, like the Cubs, they built a massive national following in the 80s and 90s thanks to having their games broadcast nationwide on a superstation. Even without those factors weighing heavily in their favor, Atlanta is the #6 metro area by population. Oh, and of course the Braves are making money hand over fist with The Battery stadium district. It is no wonder other teams, including the Sox, are very serious about developing their own stadium districts.

9 hours ago, 77 Hitmen said:

Those May pennants fly forever.

Atlanta is absolutely a true big market team in MLB. Their territory is basically the entire deep South outside of Florida and, like the Cubs, they built a massive national following in the 80s and 90s thanks to having their games broadcast nationwide on a superstation. Even without those factors weighing heavily in their favor, Atlanta is the #6 metro area by population. Oh, and of course the Braves are making money hand over fist with The Battery stadium district. It is no wonder other teams, including the Sox, are very serious about developing their own stadium districts.

The only thing that goes against the Braves is corporate ownership, like Toronto...but certainly that's only adding to the efficiency of profit taking exploitation-ability.

"The service time needed for free agency, which is currently six years, would drop to five years for players at least 30 years old. However, teams could keep such players for a sixth year by offering them a contract with a salary that averages out the 125 highest-paid players in the league, which is the same calculus for the current qualifying offer. (Passan relayed those details in a subsequent post.)"

Also raising minimum salary by almost double....revenue sharing etc.

Owners' response tomorrow?

MLB Trade Rumors

MLBPA Releases Details Of Collective Bargaining Proposal

The formal talks have begun.

Edited Thursday at 12:58 PM3 days by caulfield12

Dodgers, Padres, Mets, Yankees, Red Sox, Phillies, Braves, Blue Jays would be over this cap

Edited Thursday at 06:55 PM2 days by Autumn Dreamin

2 hours ago, Autumn Dreamin said:

Dodgers, Padres, Mets, Yankees, Red Sox, Phillies, Braves, Blue Jays would be over this cap

If the owners remain focused on having a salary cap it's going to be a long, winter spring and possibly summer next year.

Because a salary cap is a no-go with the MLBPA, especially with the Athletic story out a few days ago on the real reason the owners want a cap.

39 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

If the owners remain focused on having a salary cap it's going to be a long, winter spring and possibly summer next year.

Because a salary cap is a no-go with the MLBPA, especially with the Athletic story out a few days ago on the real reason the owners want a cap.

With that high floor, a hard cap should be on the table.

Counting the bs deferred money, had this proposal been in place on OD, the players would have roughly $60M in extra pay this season.

They both are at risk of over stating fan interest in a game where seven guys stand around waiting to touch the ball. I would call the player's bluff and lock up the ballparks for a week or three. Life will go on.

Twelve teams would be required to increase payroll by a total of $617 million based on 2026 numbers: Miami ($81.8 million), Cleveland ($95.7 million), Tampa Bay ($108.2 million), the White Sox ($108.6 million), St. Louis ($114.4 million), Washington ($119.1 million), Pittsburgh ($122.6 million), Minnesota ($125.6 million), Milwaukee ($130.9 million), the Athletics ($139.2 million), Colorado ($142.2 million) and Cincinnati ($148.8 million).

Union interim executive director Bruce Meyer, in a post on the social media platform X, criticized the owners’ proposal:

“For generations, our members have fought against cap systems because they harm players at all levels, erode or eliminate contractual guarantees, pit player against player, lead to more work stoppages, not less, and get worse for players over time. Caps don’t lower ticket prices for fans, eliminate tanking or ensure teams are run with equal competence. They suffocate competition by offering owners an all-purpose excuse for inaction and mediocrity.”

https://chicago.suntimes.com/mlb/2026/05/28/mlb-proposes-salary-cap-for-the-first-time-since-1994-95-players-strike

1 hour ago, mmmmmbeeer said:

With that high floor, a hard cap should be on the table.

Counting the bs deferred money, had this proposal been in place on OD, the players would have roughly $60M in extra pay this season.

60 million divided by how many MLB players is literally peanuts.

Players are not going to agree to have their earning potential capped, you wouldn't in your profession...why should they be any different?

And as the Athletic pointed out this isn't about competitive balance it's about owners wanting the value of their franchises to increase to the level of the NBA and NFL.