Sox fire Katz and Thames

[WestEddy]

53 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Heard from a source this morning on the firings. Didn't reach out to them on this so I was a little surprised. They provided some insight into the situation to help clarify.

Take it for what you think it is worth:

"For all my criticism of the White Sox, I applaud the firing of their coaches today. 

 

Good riddance to Ethan Katz. One of my Giants sources referred to him three years ago as “High School Harry,” said he milked his distinction as HS pitching coach for Flaherty, Giolito and Fried. Was told by a Sox source in the middle of 2023 that Grifol wanted his own pitching coach but was denied. My sense is that the hiring of Brian Bannister, who worked with Katz in KC, saved his bacon for a while. Katz was viewed as the anti-Don Cooper, so he got a long runway from James Fegan, the Comcast/CHSN groupies and radio clowns.

After the firings of Grifol and his buddy Mike Tosar, Mike Gellinger was promoted to his spot. After the season when Venable came on board, Thames felt somewhat threatened by Gellinger’s presence, so Gelly went back to his former role as minor league hitting coach. Gellinger was Konerko’s guy. Last winter Cleveland asked and was granted permission to talk to Gelly, but they found out Gelly makes a lot of money. 

Never understood the love for Katz, now they need to get rid of Gene Watson. Losing 511 games in five years is no reason to be employed.

 

Here’s his losses over the last five years:

 

Year Team Losses

2021 Angels  85

2022 KC  97

2023 KC 106

2024 CWS 121

2025 CWS  102

 

“Has one of the worst reputations in baseball.” - Former MLB executive"

 

 

Thanks for the background, but this sounds like the grousing of somebody who just didn't like Katz. The only negative detail provided on Katz was that he had a nickname. Also, is "Former MLB executive" Rick Hahn?

Edited September 30 by WestEddy

[Dick Allen]

2 hours ago, SCCWS said:

I assume JR will be calling La Russa to see if he has a place in the organization next spring................................

I'm starting to question if LaRussa is around and has much pull anymore. You would think if he was, Schriffen would be slurping him.

[Lip Man 1]

16 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Thanks for the background, but this sounds like somebody who just didn't like Katz grousing. The only negative detail provided on Katz was that he had a nickname. Also, is "Former MLB executive" Rick Hahn?

Have no idea.

[Jake]

My main reaction to this is it seems to largely be cleaning house of Grifol era guys. Fine, but why did that wait until now? I worry that this is a sign that Venable wasn't given the chance to pick his own staff when he was hired. On the other hand, I thought he was a hot enough commodity that he wouldn't have taken a job with so little autonomy.

[Lip Man 1]

4 minutes ago, Jake said:

My main reaction to this is it seems to largely be cleaning house of Grifol era guys. Fine, but why did that wait until now? I worry that this is a sign that Venable wasn't given the chance to pick his own staff when he was hired. On the other hand, I thought he was a hot enough commodity that he wouldn't have taken a job with so little autonomy.

For years Sox managers have been told they have to keep certain members of previous staffs on their own. As far as taking the job with little autonomy, a big check and the chance to get that position trumps all. 

I mean look at Rick Hahn and Chris Getz.

[southsider2k5]

7 minutes ago, Jake said:

My main reaction to this is it seems to largely be cleaning house of Grifol era guys. Fine, but why did that wait until now? I worry that this is a sign that Venable wasn't given the chance to pick his own staff when he was hired. On the other hand, I thought he was a hot enough commodity that he wouldn't have taken a job with so little autonomy.

And it probably means Getz doesn't have nearly the amount of control that we have been told either.  Neither has been able to make changes as needed, and instead we get this.

[Harry Chappas]

3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

And it probably means Getz doesn't have nearly the amount of control that we have been told either.  Neither has been able to make changes as needed, and instead we get this.

My assumption is that Getz and Venable were given limited control to begin with and you are seeing now that they are cutting bait as the contracts expire.  Both knew there was nothing positive happening in the short term so Thames and Katz were run out and now we look anew.

Oddly players being called up seemed prepared for the majors and there was growth of younger players so the firings seems odd compared to prior years of young player results.

Katz bullpen work seemed sketchy at best over the yeas but I was never certain if it was he or the talent.

[southsider2k5]

53 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Heard from a source this morning on the firings. Didn't reach out to them on this so I was a little surprised. They provided some insight into the situation to help clarify.

Take it for what you think it is worth:

"For all my criticism of the White Sox, I applaud the firing of their coaches today. 

 

Good riddance to Ethan Katz. One of my Giants sources referred to him three years ago as “High School Harry,” said he milked his distinction as HS pitching coach for Flaherty, Giolito and Fried. Was told by a Sox source in the middle of 2023 that Grifol wanted his own pitching coach but was denied. My sense is that the hiring of Brian Bannister, who worked with Katz in KC, saved his bacon for a while. Katz was viewed as the anti-Don Cooper, so he got a long runway from James Fegan, the Comcast/CHSN groupies and radio clowns.

After the firings of Grifol and his buddy Mike Tosar, Mike Gellinger was promoted to his spot. After the season when Venable came on board, Thames felt somewhat threatened by Gellinger’s presence, so Gelly went back to his former role as minor league hitting coach. Gellinger was Konerko’s guy. Last winter Cleveland asked and was granted permission to talk to Gelly, but they found out Gelly makes a lot of money. 

Never understood the love for Katz, now they need to get rid of Gene Watson. Losing 511 games in five years is no reason to be employed.

 

Here’s his losses over the last five years:

 

Year Team Losses

2021 Angels  85

2022 KC  97

2023 KC 106

2024 CWS 121

2025 CWS  102

 

“Has one of the worst reputations in baseball.” - Former MLB executive"

 

 

Leave it to White Sox people to continue to s%*# on their own.  I wish I knew why we continue to operate like classless buffoons.

[southsider2k5]

3 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said:

My assumption is that Getz and Venable were given limited control to begin with and you are seeing now that they are cutting bait as the contracts expire.  Both knew there was nothing positive happening in the short term so Thames and Katz were run out and now we look anew.

Oddly players being called up seemed prepared for the majors and there was growth of younger players so the firings seems odd compared to prior years of young player results.

Katz bullpen work seemed sketchy at best over the yeas but I was never certain if it was he or the talent.

He seemed to have success with guys who didn't suck, and got success out of guys who hadn't always shown it.  Talent was definitely an issue during his time here, as I don't care who the Pitching Coach was, most of the pitchers on the roster were going to suck.  No one is turning guys like Cannon into a front line starter.

[chitownsportsfan]

No offense to Lip who was just relaying but what a cowardly way to talk about folks on their way out. Put your name on that. At least the "radio clowns" do. Speaks to the disfunction and tribes within this s%*# org.

[WestEddy]

6 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

No offense to Lip who was just relaying but what a cowardly way to talk about folks on their way out. Put your name on that. At least the "radio clowns" do. Speaks to the disfunction and tribes within this s%*# org.

But the only thing that seems to come from inside was that Thames felt threatened by Gellinger's presence. The fact that Venable had to step in and redirect the greater hitting focus after the All-Star break is indictment enough of Thames for me. Every manager's going to want to bring in their own guys, and the White Sox have picked their coaches independent from the manager's preference. Looks like Getz is changing that. 

[caulfield12]

7 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

But the only thing that seems to come from inside was that Thames felt threatened by Gellinger's presence. The fact that Venable had to step in and redirect the greater hitting focus after the All-Star break is indictment enough of Thames for me. Every manager's going to want to bring in their own guys, and the White Sox have picked their coaches independent from the manager's preference. Looks like Getz is changing that. 

Gellinger has been around at least twenty years in a variety of White Sox roles.

Seemingly, he would represent a sort of JR or front office spy to Venable, the new kid on the block.

If not for major health problems that almost forced him out...he might have even more authority.

[Chicago White Sox]

39 minutes ago, Jake said:

My main reaction to this is it seems to largely be cleaning house of Grifol era guys. Fine, but why did that wait until now? I worry that this is a sign that Venable wasn't given the chance to pick his own staff when he was hired. On the other hand, I thought he was a hot enough commodity that he wouldn't have taken a job with so little autonomy.

An under-looked aspect here is Venable was a first time manager and wasn’t really able to bring a bunch of coaches with him from previous spots.  If you look at other hires from last year, I believe many of them had a lot of carry-overs as well.  I don’t it’s all that crazy to keep some guys around a year, evaluate them while also buying some time to identify other better options.  Now, if this was about Jerry saving a buck, it wouldn’t be a totally different matter.

[wegner]

Physician Heal Thyself....

[Dick Allen]

39 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

No offense to Lip who was just relaying but what a cowardly way to talk about folks on their way out. Put your name on that. At least the "radio clowns" do. Speaks to the disfunction and tribes within this s%*# org.

It's been the White Sox way for decades.

[Tnetennba]

1 hour ago, wegner said:

Physician Heal Thyself....

Essential oil peddler feels more apt. 

[Stinky Stanky]

14 hours ago, nrockway said:

nothing about this post makes any sense to me. starting with the lemon cookie, to 'tampering' to the implication that the sox are constantly tampering. is it a black sox reference?

why a lemon cookie? is that even something people say? i don't think that's an expression. 

I don’t imply anything. It’s all on you. Lemon cookie is my expression. What part of I think they have people in mind is troubling you? Thanks for asking and have a nice day. 

[toasty]

Surprised by Santos, but that's about it. Last half of the season was what, 10 games under .500, first half much worse. Couple that with holdover status from Grifol/TLR era, it makes sense. Having had at least a little bit of consistency for Venables first year does, too to an extent. I hate to even think that it was a financial decision, but can't discount it completely. 

[WhiteSox2023]

49 minutes ago, Stinky Stanky said:

I don’t imply anything. It’s all on you. Lemon cookie is my expression. What part of I think they have people in mind is troubling you? Thanks for asking and have a nice day. 

Jerry definitely did this with TLR.  He just left Hahn out of the decision altogether.

I think Bob Nightengale was reporting it before Hahn even knew.  🤣

[Stinky Stanky]

2 hours ago, Stinky Stanky said:

I don’t imply anything. It’s all on you. Lemon cookie is my expression. What part of I think they have people in mind is troubling you? Thanks for asking and have a nice 

Edited September 30 by Stinky Stanky
My bad

[Stinky Stanky]

1 hour ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Jerry definitely did this with TLR.  He just left Hahn out of the decision altogether.

I think Bob Nightengale was reporting it before Hahn even knew.  🤣

You make sense. Good chance you nailed it. 

[kitekrazy]

19 hours ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

Just seems like weird timing. Why not fire them before the season when you hired a new head coach?

I just don’t like the idea of calling up all of “the kids” and then having them adjust to new coaching in the off-season.

Let’s just hope they seek the best available coaches from any/all resources (aka not within the organization) to further develop these young players.

 

If they are with another organization I don't think you can

veterans deal with that all of the time

[WestEddy]

5 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

If they are with another organization I don't think you can

veterans deal with that all of the time

Yeah, these rookies had a new set of coaches at each level. I don't think they're adjusting to anything. 

[Ozzie for Manager]

It's obvious the coaching was the reason we missed the playoffs.  Pencil us in next year. Getz amassed all that talent.  The coaching staff held them back this year.  

[kitekrazy]

7 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

I'm starting to question if LaRussa is around and has much pull anymore. You would think if he was, Schriffen would be slurping him.

It's obvious he's clueless in anything concerning the organization.  When you listen to other teams booth they are well researched and you learn more about the Sox. Let's face it. He's the only person I've ever heard mispronounce Bill's last name.  Clueless doesn't even cover that.