WhiteSox2023 Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 10 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Counterpoint: No you wouldn't. You'd b**** as loudly as you did for the last 30 years. Considering the White Sox have only made the playoffs five times in the last 30 years, it’s ridiculous for you to call out Lip on his comment. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 25 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Considering the White Sox have only made the playoffs five times in the last 30 years, it’s ridiculous for you to call out Lip on his comment. The Sox made the playoffs in 2020 and 2021, you all y'all try to ignore one of them, then whine about the outcomes assures me that y'all would b**** about anything. Just stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 22 minutes ago, WestEddy said: The Sox made the playoffs in 2020 and 2021, you all y'all try to ignore one of them, then whine about the outcomes assures me that y'all would b**** about anything. Just stop. Regardless of the shortened season, getting spanked and not even looking competitive is a pretty trash outcome. Just stop. 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 (edited) 1 hour ago, WestEddy said: Counterpoint: No you wouldn't. You'd b**** as loudly as you did for the last 30 years. Westy: It looks like you're going off the deep end again my friend. 😆 Easy there. As a Sox historian I absolutely know about the successes this franchise has had but i also know this: Since 2007 the Sox are one of the worst franchises in baseball, putrid in fact. 13 losing years, five winning ones and a season at .500 The playoff record in that time? Three appearances, three first round exits and an overall record of 3-8. So given that context if the Sox did what the Cubs have done in the last 10 years, five playoff appearances and a World series title, you're damn right, I'd give a lot for the Sox to do the same thing. Edited October 27 by Lip Man 1 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 (edited) 2 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Considering the White Sox have only made the playoffs five times in the last 30 years, it’s ridiculous for you to call out Lip on his comment. 2023: It's OK my friend. As Kenny Williams once said, "It is what it is..." Some folks are satisfied with mediocrity. Given what the Sox have done over the past 19 years I can understand I guess why they try to inflate the limited success they have had. Don't get me wrong in 2020 and 2021 they did some really good things, but in both cases it ended badly in part because of self inflicted wounds. That's hard to take. Edited October 27 by Lip Man 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chick Mercedes Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 1 hour ago, Lip Man 1 said: 2023: It's OK my friend. As Kenny Williams once said, "It is what it is..."Some folks are satisfied with mediocrity… Satisfied may not be the right word. But they are compromising, and have low standards for their dollar/approval. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 10 hours ago, WestEddy said: The Sox made the playoffs in 2020 and 2021, you all y'all try to ignore one of them, then whine about the outcomes assures me that y'all would b**** about anything. Just stop. 2020 was fun but it was 60 games you couldn’t attend, and they expanded playoffs participants. If they played 162 , considering they were already down to 2 starters, it’s questionable if they would have been .500. So a huge asterisk for that one. But quickly run out of the playoffs both years, and almost didn’t even try to improve in 2022. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 10 hours ago, WestEddy said: The Sox made the playoffs in 2020 and 2021, you all y'all try to ignore one of them, then whine about the outcomes assures me that y'all would b**** about anything. Just stop. You are correct, they did make the playoffs in 2020 and 2021. Now tell the other part. What happened in those playoff series? They blew things up in the 2016 off-season, and tanked, on purpose, in 2017-2018-2019 (Not to mention when they were "trying to win" in 2013-2014-2015-2016 they went a combined 290-358) But even removing those years, fans had to watch awful baseball for three seasons, to be "rewarded" with two playoff appearances that lasted as long as a fart in the wind. Then they embarked on one of the worst .500 seasons anyone can remember in 2022, and followed that up with having the worst record in baseball the last three years. So you claim fans here "ignore" the 2020 and 2021 seasons. How should fans be acting about those seasons? You clearly don't agree with how those years are perceived, so please enlighten us on how they should be viewed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwolf Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 No argument exists to put Jerry or anyone ahead of the Owner of the Pirates as worst owner. The Pirates are an organization with fewer World Series titles, fewer division titles than the White Sox since that man took over. An organization who releases players a merely few PAs or IPS before having to give the player a measly 50K bonus, an organization who removed a Clemente tribute for an advertisement, who sent fan purchased bricks to a landfill, a franchise run by a moron General Manager who has no clue as to how to value the few salable assets the Pirates have. I am a White Sox fan living in Pittsburgh and maybe seeing it first hand is more impactful, but when I see the chicanery going on here I always think, "at least the White Sox are not this." 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloydBannister1983 Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 On 10/25/2025 at 5:41 PM, Chick Mercedes said: Just win, baby See Vizquel, Omar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 3 hours ago, Dick Allen said: 2020 was fun but it was 60 games you couldn’t attend, and they expanded playoffs participants. If they played 162 , considering they were already down to 2 starters, it’s questionable if they would have been .500. So a huge asterisk for that one. But quickly run out of the playoffs both years, and almost didn’t even try to improve in 2022. Anyone who doesn’t acknowledge this is lying to themselves. They only played 37% of a normal season and by the playoffs, they had half a rotation left. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 (edited) 3 hours ago, Tony said: You are correct, they did make the playoffs in 2020 and 2021. Now tell the other part. What happened in those playoff series? They blew things up in the 2016 off-season, and tanked, on purpose, in 2017-2018-2019 (Not to mention when they were "trying to win" in 2013-2014-2015-2016 they went a combined 290-358) But even removing those years, fans had to watch awful baseball for three seasons, to be "rewarded" with two playoff appearances that lasted as long as a fart in the wind. Then they embarked on one of the worst .500 seasons anyone can remember in 2022, and followed that up with having the worst record in baseball the last three years. So you claim fans here "ignore" the 2020 and 2021 seasons. How should fans be acting about those seasons? You clearly don't agree with how those years are perceived, so please enlighten us on how they should be viewed. He is using recency bias of those two playoff years to apparently excuse the Sox for only making the playoffs five times in 30+ years, as if that makes anything look better for Jerry’s pathetic tenure. Edited October 27 by WhiteSox2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 3 hours ago, Dick Allen said: 2020 was fun but it was 60 games you couldn’t attend, and they expanded playoffs participants. If they played 162 , considering they were already down to 2 starters, it’s questionable if they would have been .500. So a huge asterisk for that one. But quickly run out of the playoffs both years, and almost didn’t even try to improve in 2022. Plus, the injuries to the usual suspects. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 4 hours ago, Tony said: You are correct, they did make the playoffs in 2020 and 2021. Now tell the other part. What happened in those playoff series? They blew things up in the 2016 off-season, and tanked, on purpose, in 2017-2018-2019 (Not to mention when they were "trying to win" in 2013-2014-2015-2016 they went a combined 290-358) But even removing those years, fans had to watch awful baseball for three seasons, to be "rewarded" with two playoff appearances that lasted as long as a fart in the wind. Then they embarked on one of the worst .500 seasons anyone can remember in 2022, and followed that up with having the worst record in baseball the last three years. So you claim fans here "ignore" the 2020 and 2021 seasons. How should fans be acting about those seasons? You clearly don't agree with how those years are perceived, so please enlighten us on how they should be viewed. View them however you want to. The argument you're picking a single sentence out of is that the guy who complains long and loud about every player acquisition says he would be happy with another team's situation, and I say he wouldn't. He would conduct himself the same way as he does now. All fan bases except the championship winner hate their teams' owners. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 48 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Anyone who doesn’t acknowledge this is lying to themselves. They only played 37% of a normal season and by the playoffs, they had half a rotation left. I thought hypotheticals were for losers looking to validate their wrong arguments. A season was played, and they made the playoffs under the rules for that season. But hey, let's pretend something different so you could argue they didn't really make those playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 14 hours ago, WestEddy said: The Sox made the playoffs in 2020 and 2021, you all y'all try to ignore one of them, then whine about the outcomes assures me that y'all would b**** about anything. Just stop. And then what happened? They got their asses beat so bad they looked like they didn’t even belong. And then your boy put the worst team in modern baseball on the field. If anyone needs to stop “bitching”, it is you. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 (edited) 59 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: He is using recency bias of those two playoff years to apparently excuse the Sox for only making the playoffs five times in 30+ years, as if that makes anything look better for Jerry’s pathetic tenure. And you're using recency bias during the worst years of a rebuild to make your own arguments. My argument is that your own misery isn't unique. All owners hold their cities hostage for free land, tax breaks and legislative preference. Sure, some owners aren't individually psychotic to the point of dropping a player a day early so they don't have to pay a $50k kicker, or so negligent they look the other way while members of the front office supply drugs to their players that kill them. The White Sox will post a winning record this coming season, or the next, and the goalposts will magically move, and everybody else will be settling for mediocrity by being happy about a playoff berth or a single championship, or whatnot. Edited October 27 by WestEddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 1 hour ago, WestEddy said: I thought hypotheticals were for losers looking to validate their wrong arguments. A season was played, and they made the playoffs under the rules for that season. But hey, let's pretend something different so you could argue they didn't really make those playoffs. I never said the 2020 season and postseason appearance didn’t count, but come on, it took a worldwide pandemic to shorten the season to 60 games. How often has an MLB season been shortened, other than the 1994 season in which Jerry screwed over his own WS contender over money. Anyways, do you think the Sox still win the division in 2020 if it went a full 162 games? They had half a rotation by the end of 60 games. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 1 hour ago, WestEddy said: And you're using recency bias during the worst years of a rebuild to make your own arguments. My argument is that your own misery isn't unique. All owners hold their cities hostage for free land, tax breaks and legislative preference. Sure, some owners aren't individually psychotic to the point of dropping a player a day early so they don't have to pay a $50k kicker, or so negligent they look the other way while members of the front office supply drugs to their players that kill them. The White Sox will post a winning record this coming season, or the next, and the goalposts will magically move, and everybody else will be settling for mediocrity by being happy about a playoff berth or a single championship, or whatnot. This thread is about Jerry and his awful ownership of the team. I would say that looking at his 44 years of ownership would make sense as an appropriate sample, and 44 years is definitely not too small of a sample, nor would it contain recency bias. 7 postseason appearances in 44 years of Jerry’s ownership. That’s embarrassing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 1 hour ago, WestEddy said: View them however you want to. The argument you're picking a single sentence out of is that the guy who complains long and loud about every player acquisition says he would be happy with another team's situation, and I say he wouldn't. He would conduct himself the same way as he does now. All fan bases except the championship winner hate their teams' owners. Peter Seidler was absolutely beloved in SD. Still is, each year removed from his untimely passing...but you probably think he was irresponsible for spending unsustainably for that size of a market, right? How about not mocking the very concept of even bidding for the greatest player in the history of the modern game, at least? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 7 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: This thread is about Jerry and his awful ownership of the team. I would say that looking at his 44 years of ownership would make sense as an appropriate sample, and 44 years is definitely not too small of a sample, nor would it contain recency bias. 7 postseason appearances in 44 years of Jerry’s ownership. That’s embarrassing. With all the intrinsic built-in challenges the team should have in Chicago vs. Detroit Cleveland Minnesota and KC. Imagine being in the West or East of either league... They'd be the Tennessee Titans, but even worse off. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 (edited) 39 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: This thread is about Jerry and his awful ownership of the team. I would say that looking at his 44 years of ownership would make sense as an appropriate sample, and 44 years is definitely not too small of a sample, nor would it contain recency bias. 7 postseason appearances in 44 years of Jerry’s ownership. That’s embarrassing. I'm not embarrassed. Reinsdorf is not a good baseball team owner. There are worse owners in baseball. His situation is unique, in that he's burned bridges with his attitude, and has made some bad business decisions that have run out the clock on his ownership. He's also made bad baseball decisions which are too numerous to list out. A new owner will run the business differently. It would not surprise me for Ishbia to take over, do some fan-friendly stuff, pour money into player payroll, win, then suddenly realize he needs to tighten the belt on player salaries. And either Ishbia or Reinsdorf, I'm going to guess the White Sox will suddenly be in a stadium crisis where the city and state need to stuff his pockets with free money, land, infrastructure, zoning changes, and labor law waivers. Edited October 27 by WestEddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 1 hour ago, WestEddy said: And you're using recency bias during the worst years of a rebuild to make your own arguments. My argument is that your own misery isn't unique. All owners hold their cities hostage for free land, tax breaks and legislative preference. Sure, some owners aren't individually psychotic to the point of dropping a player a day early so they don't have to pay a $50k kicker, or so negligent they look the other way while members of the front office supply drugs to their players that kill them. The White Sox will post a winning record this coming season, or the next, and the goalposts will magically move, and everybody else will be settling for mediocrity by being happy about a playoff berth or a single championship, or whatnot. Man, you're so absolutely full of s%*#. First, get the f*** out of here with "recency bias" Since 2015, the White Sox have 726 wins. Only the Rockies are worse, with a 723. Don't act like Sox fans have been "spoiled" with great baseball over the last decade. Second, the goalposts SHOULD move. That's how sports work. Expectations get raised. In 2006, when the White Sox came off their World Series Championship...they went 90-72 and it was one of the most disappointing seasons in franchise history. If the Sox got anywhere close to 90 wins in the next two seasons, fans would be thrilled, understandably so. Also, in the reply you made to me earlier, you said "All fan bases except the championship winner hate their teams' owners." If the Blue Jays beat the Dodgers in the World Series, fans in LA will not be calling for Mark Walter to step down anytime soon, so that statement is objectively false. Lastly, and probably most importantly, having the second worst record in all of baseball over the last 10 years should not be acceptable in the third largest market. We should expect more. If you expect White Sox fans to be more "grateful" for the 2020 and 2021 seasons, I don't really know what to tell you other than going 162-324 over the last three years makes those seasons feel like a LONG time ago. This franchise has been around since 1901 and 2020-2021 was the first time they ever made the playoffs in back to back years. The Astros just ended a streak of going to the ALCS seven years in a row. I'm not asking for a run like that, but really don't think it's asking a lot to see our favorite team have some sort of sustained success for 3-4 years. And if you think it's too much to ask....then congratulations, you found the right team to root for apparently. Jokes on us. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 24 minutes ago, Tony said: Man, you're so absolutely full of s%*#. First, get the f*** out of here with "recency bias" Since 2015, the White Sox have 726 wins. Only the Rockies are worse, with a 723. Don't act like Sox fans have been "spoiled" with great baseball over the last decade. Second, the goalposts SHOULD move. That's how sports work. Expectations get raised. In 2006, when the White Sox came off their World Series Championship...they went 90-72 and it was one of the most disappointing seasons in franchise history. If the Sox got anywhere close to 90 wins in the next two seasons, fans would be thrilled, understandably so. Also, in the reply you made to me earlier, you said "All fan bases except the championship winner hate their teams' owners." If the Blue Jays beat the Dodgers in the World Series, fans in LA will not be calling for Mark Walter to step down anytime soon, so that statement is objectively false. Lastly, and probably most importantly, having the second worst record in all of baseball over the last 10 years should not be acceptable in the third largest market. We should expect more. If you expect White Sox fans to be more "grateful" for the 2020 and 2021 seasons, I don't really know what to tell you other than going 162-324 over the last three years makes those seasons feel like a LONG time ago. This franchise has been around since 1901 and 2020-2021 was the first time they ever made the playoffs in back to back years. The Astros just ended a streak of going to the ALCS seven years in a row. I'm not asking for a run like that, but really don't think it's asking a lot to see our favorite team have some sort of sustained success for 3-4 years. And if you think it's too much to ask....then congratulations, you found the right team to root for apparently. Jokes on us. Okay, you got me. I was wrong when I was so specific in saying that all teams' fan bases except the championship winner hate their owners. You seem to agree with pretty much the rest of what I responded to you and WS23. I'm really not sure what I'm full of s%*# about, unless that's your own clever way of telling me that I've nailed it again. Your first point, I sure hope you find the guy who said that and give him whatfor. You agree with me that the White Sox went to the playoffs in 2020 and 2021. Liptak said he'd be happy with 5 appearances in 10 years, and I told him he wouldn't. I didn't say he should be grateful for 2 appearances in, what, 20 years? I said they get glossed over, therefore, the people who have been vociferous in their hatred of Reinsdorf for coming on 30+ years would not accept 5 playoff appearances in 10 years. And Lip's comment was in being argumentative over me stating that Cub fans aren't happy with Ricketts. Tony, I fully encourage you to not accept things you don't like. My argument in this thread is that billionaires and corporations buy baseball teams, now, to max out free money from the government under threat of losing a baseball team. The goal of their ownership is usually a new stadium in a stadium village where they get billions of dollars pouring down upon them. They will set up this cash flow, then sell the team for 20 times what they paid. Now, I realize I'm being too specific, and somebody will pop in and point out that one or a couple owners didn't do that, or a few teams are way profitable and try to win regularly without tapping into that money stream. That's great. There are also financially conservative dudes who would argue that the government should be putting money into owners' pockets. Good for them, too. Reinsdorf sucks as an owner. But he sucks as an owner for the actual reasons he sucks, many of which we agree on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted October 27 Share Posted October 27 1 hour ago, caulfield12 said: Peter Seidler was absolutely beloved in SD. Still is, each year removed from his untimely passing...but you probably think he was irresponsible for spending unsustainably for that size of a market, right? How about not mocking the very concept of even bidding for the greatest player in the history of the modern game, at least? I don't follow the Padres all that closely to know whether the fanbase is still in love with the surviving brothers. I'm sure another Dodger World Series victory will only make the base love them more. Reinsdorf sucks as an owner. His weird, adversarial attitude makes it all personal. I find myself flabbergasted by the concept of a billionaire dealing with 29 other billionaires and corporations - let himself get played by a faction of them, becoming the face of an unpopular move to establish a salary cap and wiping out a season in the process, then while standing there with a big protest sign saying "Screw the players", turned around and saw he was alone, and everybody stabbed him in the back. We give rich people the benefit of the doubt on intelligence because they found a wrinkle in the financial system to exploit. I guess his answer as to why he keeps shooting himself in the foot is because it's going to feel so good when the gun's finally empty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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