58 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Gaslighting? I’m a massive NFL guy and one of the best predictors of success is break-out age. Guys who show they can succeed early on in college are far more likely to be legit NFL players. I’m just saying people tend to ignore early college contributions and focus entirely on their final pre-draft season. As such, a guy like Roch who was great as a sophomore but didn’t improve in his junior year will lose some status and I would argue more than they should.

And beyond defense, Roch has elite bat to ball skills, plus power, and a plus arm. You are vastly underplaying his skill-set for reasons I don’t quite get.

Then again, in baseball there’s the pitcher’s adjustment angle that doesn’t exist much in football. Unless your quarterback maybe facing DCs that did their homework in year 2

1 minute ago, WestEddy said:

I find these arguments the same as the "veterans don't make a difference on a team" ones. The evidence is usually just, "Well, I don't think they do."

The established relationship wouldn't matter if Roch fundamentally changed as a draftable prospect over the last 2-3 years. He's only gotten better.

The Sox are establishing new relationships and gathering new information that didn’t matter in 2024, but matter now in 2026

37 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

Yeah, it sounds like you and James are on the same page.

Curious what @Look at Ray Ray Run thinks about this specific point. Are you fine drafting a guy who only plays 120 games? Or are you playing him somewhere else on the days he’s not catching?

The best catchers in baseball play 140-150+ games a year, which is in line with position players these days. This idea that elite catchers play 120 games a year isn't true.

5 minutes ago, Chick Mercedes said:

The Sox are establishing new relationships and gathering new information that didn’t matter in 2024, but matter now in 2026

What has changed with Cholowsky to make any relationship with his family and agent completely non-relevant besides you just thinking that?

Most prognosticators have Roch as one of if not the top prospect in this year's draft. Nobody is saying that because there's a relationship, Roch is a surefire first round pick regardless of any other evidence. But it is a factor in whom they choose, and a lot of groundwork in any discussions has already been established and is known.

7 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

The best catchers in baseball play 140-150+ games a year, which is in line with position players these days. This idea that elite catchers play 120 games a year isn't true.

I didn’t realize this. Raleigh, Perez, and Contreras all played 150+ games.

I still don’t know who I would draft. It feels like Roch is the safer choice, but if you told me one the two would end up as the best player in baseball in five years, I’d guess it would be Lackey.

4 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

What has changed with Cholowsky to make any relationship with his family and agent completely non-relevant besides you just thinking that?

Most prognosticators have Roch as one of if not the top prospect in this year's draft. Nobody is saying that because there's a relationship, Roch is a surefire first round pick regardless of any other evidence. But it is a factor in whom they choose, and a lot of groundwork in any discussions has already been established and is known.

Did I say relevant? I mean, determinative. Let me put it to you this way. I was semi engaged with who I thought was my always and forever girl. She moved to Texas for work. Over the next 4 years I met lots of other girls, and while I thought Texas girl was IT, and I conducted myself as such long distance, I bumped into my wife. The time spans are different, but if the Sox meet Mr Right, I feel pretty dang sure they’d not hold onto the past

6 minutes ago, Chick Mercedes said:

Did I say relevant? I mean, determinative. Let me put it to you this way. I was semi engaged with who I thought was my always and forever girl. She moved to Texas for work. Over the next 4 years I met lots of other girls, and while I thought Texas girl was IT, and I conducted myself as such long distance, I bumped into my wife. The time spans are different, but if the Sox meet Mr Right, I feel pretty dang sure they’d not hold onto the past

You did say relevance. But I agree with you, they won't settle on Roch for the relationship, but there's a lot of groundwork that's already laid. As they scout and evaluate, while they haven't talked money with other kids, they probably did with Roch and his people and have knowledge and comfort in how they'll comport themselves in the process.

1 hour ago, DirtySox said:

Yall need to start spelling "Vahn" correctly. I don't want any Andrew Vaughn bad juju in this thread.

Saw crazy stat today that since being traded, he leads the majors in average

If I had to guess the Sox are smitten with Lackey and his family as well. The relationship will be there. But actually the tipping factor will actually be baseball

15 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

I didn’t realize this. Raleigh, Perez, and Contreras all played 150+ games.

I still don’t know who I would draft. It feels like Roch is the safer choice, but if you told me one the two would end up as the best player in baseball in five years, I’d guess it would be Lackey.

I don't know. I go on Fangraphs, look at 2025 leaders, sort on Catchers, and 4 players in the game caught 120 or more, highest being Realmuto at 132. Maybe these guys DH on their off days, but if I switch to shortstops, there's 21 players who played in at least 120 games at shortstop.

Going back to 2021, nobody gets past 132 games at catcher, and it's only under 5-6 guys in the game even getting over 120.

So if Lackey is the pick, is Teel used as trade bait?

2 minutes ago, fathom said:

So if Lackey is the pick, is Teel used as trade bait?

Not for the 4+ years it takes to develop Lackey.

2 minutes ago, fathom said:

So if Lackey is the pick, is Teel used as trade bait?

I bet not. They could platoon or DH some. Quero would be in trouble long term, though

7 minutes ago, fathom said:

So if Lackey is the pick, is Teel used as trade bait?

Teel will be hitting his arb years by the time Lackey would be getting to the majors.

14 minutes ago, fathom said:

Saw crazy stat today that since being traded, he leads the majors in average

It's only about half a season worth of PAs, but I don't think we ever saw Vaughn put more than 2 good months together on the Sox.

10 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Not for the 4+ years it takes to develop Lackey.

I would be stunned if it took that long

Just now, chw42 said:

It's only about half a season worth of PAs, but I don't think we ever saw Vaughn put more than 2 good months together on the Sox.

I’m not complaining, as long as he hurts the Cubs

7 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I don't know. I go on Fangraphs, look at 2025 leaders, sort on Catchers, and 4 players in the game caught 120 or more, highest being Realmuto at 132. Maybe these guys DH on their off days, but if I switch to shortstops, there's 21 players who played in at least 120 games at shortstop.

Going back to 2021, nobody gets past 132 games at catcher, and it's only under 5-6 guys in the game even getting over 120.

Good call.

@Look at Ray Ray Run , I read your post again, and you are just talking about games played, not games caught.

@Y2Jimmy0 , since the best catchers do play 140/150 games, why the hesitation on drafting a catcher? You have mentioned they take longer to develop, but is that really true? Davis was taken 1.1 in 2021 and made his debut in 2023. Adley was drafted 1.1 in 2019 and debuted in 2022. Bart was taken 1.2 in 2018 and debuted in 2020. Heck, even Teel (drafted 14 overall) was up in 2025 after being drafted in 2023.

I just can’t get on board with not drafting Lackey because he’s a catcher. Normally, yes, you always take a SS, but Lackey even seems like the better athlete.

I have to say that Lackey's improvement in the last year and him being only 20 makes it seem like he has more room to grow. Roch's been so good for so long that prospect fatigue has probably set in by now. If you can turn Lackey into a plus CFer (or turn Teel into a corner OFer), picking Lackey could make sense. But because he is probably a less finished product, he'll probably stick in the minors for an extra year. Roch's probably going to be ready by mid 2027.

14 minutes ago, fathom said:

I would be stunned if it took that long

Yeah, I’m not sure why everyone thinks it will take so long to develop Lackey. I would expect him to be up in 2028 at some point.

27 minutes ago, fathom said:

So if Lackey is the pick, is Teel used as trade bait?

Lackey will take some time…don’t think you worry shout this until 2028 at the earliest.

13 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

It will factor into their calculus. Lots of uneasiness internally about ownership transfer, when it'll happen and who is safe once it does. There's pressure to win.

I'd heard like $10 million for Cholowsky and under $9 million for Lackey weeks ago. I don't see the justification for $10 million for Roch right now though

47 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

Good call.

@Look at Ray Ray Run , I read your post again, and you are just talking about games played, not games caught.

@Y2Jimmy0 , since the best catchers do play 140/150 games, why the hesitation on drafting a catcher? You have mentioned they take longer to develop, but is that really true? Davis was taken 1.1 in 2021 and made his debut in 2023. Adley was drafted 1.1 in 2019 and debuted in 2022. Bart was taken 1.2 in 2018 and debuted in 2020. Heck, even Teel (drafted 14 overall) was up in 2025 after being drafted in 2023.

I just can’t get on board with not drafting Lackey because he’s a catcher. Normally, yes, you always take a SS, but Lackey even seems like the better athlete.

Correct, games played. We're talking times in the lineup in this discussion, at least from my perspective.

Edited Wednesday at 10:28 PM2 days by Look at Ray Ray Run

44 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Lackey will take some time…don’t think you worry shout this until 2028 at the earliest.

Isn’t catching easier than ever now

6 minutes ago, fathom said:

Isn’t catching easier than ever now

Not sure, but I’d still expect Lackey to spend the bulk of 2027 in the minors at minimum. As such, you still would enter 2027 with Teel as your primary catcher and I’d expect by then it’s going to be very hard to move on from him.

6 minutes ago, fathom said:

Isn’t catching easier than ever now

With framing going away, and baserunning up, controlling the run game more valuable than anything too.