January 29Jan 29 20 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Do you like him more than Adley as a college player? Yeah because he’s a shortstop and he’ll play every day. Shortstops like this don’t end up in college.
January 29Jan 29 The last two prospects that I can think of with similar hype before joining the minors are Adley and Moncada - the only international player that comes to mind. I only remember Moncada because his signing was news outside of just the baseball hemisphere. Before anyone mentions it, I do I know the record breaking amount was a factor.
January 29Jan 29 Saw Bonemer paly live in low A last may and immediately did a little write up on him here. He looks the part, was very impressed with his athleticism, build, and his swing. Big fan, glad to see he's moving up and steady improving.
January 29Jan 29 10 hours ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: Yeah because he’s a shortstop and he’ll play every day. Shortstops like this don’t end up in college. Interesting, I'd say Adley is a step above as of today. Roch has a shot of being right there with a great junior season, but that's all tbd.
January 29Jan 29 13 hours ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: Yeah because he’s a shortstop and he’ll play every day. Shortstops like this don’t end up in college. Are you putting Bonemer ahead of Roch? Edited January 29Jan 29 by Harry Chappas
January 29Jan 29 36 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said: Are you putting Bonemer ahead of Roch? I’m trying to think of what Bonemer might look like after 2 years of college. There’s not a lot of looks at him playing shortstop on YouTube. Plenty of him hitting
January 29Jan 29 13 minutes ago, Chick Mercedes said: I’m trying to think of what Bonemer might look like after 2 years of college. There’s not a lot of looks at him playing shortstop on YouTube. Plenty of him hitting OK, lets reign in here a bit. Yes he is on the way up, and hitting into the top 100's but of the SSs he is at the back of top 10 in terms of SS prospect rankings. Roch is WAY ahead of Caleb.
January 29Jan 29 they called me crazy when I said Bonemer was the best player in the system and placing Carlson above him in lists was patently false.
January 29Jan 29 4 hours ago, southsider2k5 said: OK, lets reign in here a bit. Yes he is on the way up, and hitting into the top 100's but of the SSs he is at the back of top 10 in terms of SS prospect rankings. Roch is WAY ahead of Caleb. reign?
January 30Jan 30 21 hours ago, Harry Chappas said: Are you putting Bonemer ahead of Roch? I wouldn't. Cholowsky is a no doubt shortstop and I don't think Bonemer stays there.
January 30Jan 30 21 hours ago, southsider2k5 said: OK, lets reign in here a bit. Yes he is on the way up, and hitting into the top 100's but of the SSs he is at the back of top 10 in terms of SS prospect rankings. Roch is WAY ahead of Caleb. Also interesting. I think, at worst, they're relatively even. I'd take the guy who has shown some great success at a young age in professional ball over the kid dominating college baseball typically. Because Bonemer hasn't done it at AA yet, and Roch has been on another level the last 12 months as an Amateur, I call it a wash instead of leaning towards Bonemer. I think in 5 months it's more likely that Caleb is the better prospect, and that wouldn't be criticism of Roch. Edit: Jimmy brings up a good point too in that Roch is the more likely shortstop, although Roch lack of foot speed at this age leads me to question the guarantee-to-stick-at-short commentary on him. Edited January 30Jan 30 by Look at Ray Ray Run
January 30Jan 30 5 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: I wouldn't. Cholowsky is a no doubt shortstop and I don't think Bonemer stays there. Roch #'s at 19 in college: 308/399/500 34 k's in 198 AB's. Bonemer at 19 in A-A+: 281/401/473 101 k's in 385 AB's. Based on production alone, I think Bonemer was by far the better offensive player at relatively the same age.
January 30Jan 30 20 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Also interesting. I think, at worst, they're relatively even. I'd take the guy who has shown some great success at a young age in professional ball over the kid dominating college baseball typically. Because Bonemer hasn't done it at AA yet, and Roch has been on another level the last 12 months as an Amateur, I call it a wash instead of leaning towards Bonemer. I think in 5 months it's more likely that Caleb is the better prospect, and that wouldn't be criticism of Roch. Edit: Jimmy brings up a good point too in that Roch is the more likely shortstop, although Roch lack of foot speed at this age leads me to question the guarantee-to-stick-at-short commentary on him. I get the Show Me idea, but having seen what different kids do at different levels, and which ones make it, there is something to be said for loud tools. I have called high school basketball games since the mid 90s, and have covered somewhere around 15 future NBA guys, as well as dozens of high D1s. I saw a future NBA DPOY, and a potential NBA HOF and at ages 15 and 16, respectively. Even when statistics are similar, there are things that those special guys can do, that the statistically similar guys can't, which will separate them at higher levels. While I am not claiming to have scouted those differences here specifically, I will put some trust in people who view Caleb as a back end of top SSs, vs Roch as a CLEAR #1 pick. That's not to slight Caleb, but to give Roch his props.
January 30Jan 30 27 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: I get the Show Me idea, but having seen what different kids do at different levels, and which ones make it, there is something to be said for loud tools. I have called high school basketball games since the mid 90s, and have covered somewhere around 15 future NBA guys, as well as dozens of high D1s. I saw a future NBA DPOY, and a potential NBA HOF and at ages 15 and 16, respectively. Even when statistics are similar, there are things that those special guys can do, that the statistically similar guys can't, which will separate them at higher levels. While I am not claiming to have scouted those differences here specifically, I will put some trust in people who view Caleb as a back end of top SSs, vs Roch as a CLEAR #1 pick. That's not to slight Caleb, but to give Roch his props. I will say it is refreshing to have an actual debate over two guys that 12 months from now could be in every top 10 ranking. While still have some legitimate young guys and other ranked guys. It beats needing to squint to find an every day player with a positive WAR potential somewhere.
January 30Jan 30 56 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Roch #'s at 19 in college: 308/399/500 34 k's in 198 AB's. Bonemer at 19 in A-A+: 281/401/473 101 k's in 385 AB's. Based on production alone, I think Bonemer was by far the better offensive player at relatively the same age. They were both similarly ranked players out of high school.
January 30Jan 30 22 hours ago, southsider2k5 said: OK, lets reign in here a bit. Yes he is on the way up, and hitting into the top 100's but of the SSs he is at the back of top 10 in terms of SS prospect rankings. Roch is WAY ahead of Caleb. After this season, if Bonemer balls out, it’s interesting how high he goes in the 100. Hype train leaving the station. Roch is ahead, probably as a SS in the field for sure. He needs to keep hitting in the Big 10.
January 30Jan 30 I just noticed that the title of this thread looks like it could be the name of one of those supplements Big Frank was hawking......get a free bottle by texting the word caleb.
January 30Jan 30 28 minutes ago, wegner said: I just noticed that the title of this thread looks like it could be the name of one of those supplements Big Frank was hawking......get a free bottle by texting the word caleb. Nugenix baby! And she’ll like it too…
January 30Jan 30 37 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Nugenix baby! And she’ll like it too… #Boner4Bonemer
January 30Jan 30 2 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Also interesting. I think, at worst, they're relatively even. I'd take the guy who has shown some great success at a young age in professional ball over the kid dominating college baseball typically. Because Bonemer hasn't done it at AA yet, and Roch has been on another level the last 12 months as an Amateur, I call it a wash instead of leaning towards Bonemer. I think in 5 months it's more likely that Caleb is the better prospect, and that wouldn't be criticism of Roch. Edit: Jimmy brings up a good point too in that Roch is the more likely shortstop, although Roch lack of foot speed at this age leads me to question the guarantee-to-stick-at-short commentary on him. I know I said I was above this yesterday but you're like Wario to Keith Law's Mario here. It's like you want to go against an industry consensus because...? Roch is right now, as of this moment, from every report, a perfectly capable defensive MLB SS. That's basically 2 WAR right off the bat even if he hits 220/280/380. His floor is basically Bonemer's median case. You literally just saw Colson play a very good MLB SS for three months while ranking 46th percentile in foot speed. It's not a 40 yard dash over there, it's about quickness, instincts and arm.
January 30Jan 30 39 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said: I know I said I was above this yesterday but you're like Wario to Keith Law's Mario here. It's like you want to go against an industry consensus because...? Roch is right now, as of this moment, from every report, a perfectly capable defensive MLB SS. That's basically 2 WAR right off the bat even if he hits 220/280/380. His floor is basically Bonemer's median case. You literally just saw Colson play a very good MLB SS for three months while ranking 46th percentile in foot speed. It's not a 40 yard dash over there, it's about quickness, instincts and arm. You don't have to be fast to be a good defensive shortstop, but it's also incredibly rare to be slow footed (bottom 10%) and be a ++ defensive shortstop. Of the best defensive short stops of the last thirty years, only Corey Seager and Brandon Crawford registered in that range while having very good defensive years. Both of those guys started their careers in the middle or top 3rd of the league too, so it's not as if they started off being slow. Being an average runner is fine, being a slow footed one can impact your up-the-middle defense, especially as you age. From what I've read, Roch is relatively slow but how slow relatively to the league? Who knows at this point. I don't! I also disagree with you significantly with your belief that Roch is a 2 WAR player right now, or that his floor is Bonemer's median case. There's zero doubt Bonemer's offensive projections are higher than Roch's right now (IMO). Part of that is because Roch hasn't had a chance to play against top competition, but as I said based on their age 19 seasons Bonemer is ahead productivity wise... zero doubt about it. His production in A-A+ is much more impressive than Roch's freshman year production. I also don't think I'm going against the consensus at all. There are people in the baseball circles that agree with my general premise. Edited January 30Jan 30 by Look at Ray Ray Run
January 30Jan 30 If Bonemer and Cholowski put up the same stats this season, who gets the edge at the plate? Big 10 pitching and all.
January 30Jan 30 2 minutes ago, Chick Mercedes said: If Bonemer and Cholowski put up the same stats this season, who gets the edge at the plate? Big 10 pitching and all. The same stats? Bonemer by a mile. The Big Ten isn't even equal to complex ball and Bonemer will possibly get a shot at AA this year and that's a incredibly tough hitters environment. The majority of pitchers you see in a college season will never play professionally. It's why I'm more skeptical than some when it comes to grading a college player. He might be unreal and he can only dominate the situations he is given, but the difference in competition is so stark.
January 30Jan 30 4 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: The same stats? Bonemer by a mile. The Big Ten isn't even equal to complex ball and Bonemer will possibly get a shot at AA this year and that's an incredibly tough hitters environment. The majority of pitchers you see in a college season will never play professionally. It's why I'm more skeptical than some when it comes to grading a college player. He might be unreal and he can only dominate the situations he is given, but the difference in competition is so stark. Think we’re gonna be comparing this stat battle very closely with a Big 10 hitter needing to over perform average minor league stats 🥹
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