whitesox61382 Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 If the Sox want a 6M/yr pitcher, than why don't they go after LHernandez instead of Ortiz. Here is a statistical comparison of the two over the last two seasons. LHernandez(2003) 15-10 3.20 ERA 233.1 IP 225 H 57 BB 178 SO 1.25 WHIP Ortiz(2003) 21-7 3.82 ERA 212.1 IP 177 H 102 BB 149 SO 1.33 WHIP LHernandez(2004) 4-7 3.37 ERA 117.2 IP 109 H 36 BB 88 SO 1.23 WHIP Ortiz(2004) 6-6 4.18 ERA 88.1 IP 84 H 47 BB 73 SO 1.48 WHIP LHernandez is better across the board, has been consistant, and is signed long-term. He has a lower ERA, pitches more innings(good thing since the Sox pen is suspect), walks fewer, strikesout more, and has a lower WHIP. This is a good example of why wins are a poor measure of a pitchers effectiveness. LHernandez is clearly the better pitcher, but he pitches for the worst team with the worst run support. I don't see why the Sox don't go after LHernandez. He is turning into a Colon clone(the Colon before this season) and for far less(6M/yr is a pretty reasonable price for LHernandez). I guess that this would make too much sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 If the Sox want a 6M/yr pitcher, than why don't they go after LHernandez instead of Ortiz. Here is a statistical comparison of the two over the last two seasons. LHernandez(2003) 15-10 3.20 ERA 233.1 IP 225 H 57 BB 178 SO 1.25 WHIP Ortiz(2003) 21-7 3.82 ERA 212.1 IP 177 H 102 BB 149 SO 1.33 WHIP LHernandez(2004) 4-7 3.37 ERA 117.2 IP 109 H 36 BB 88 SO 1.23 WHIP Ortiz(2004) 6-6 4.18 ERA 88.1 IP 84 H 47 BB 73 SO 1.48 WHIP LHernandez is better across the board, has been consistant, and is signed long-term. He has a lower ERA, pitches more innings(good thing since the Sox pen is suspect), walks fewer, strikesout more, and has a lower WHIP. This is a good example of why wins are a poor measure of a pitchers effectiveness. LHernandez is clearly the better pitcher, but he pitches for the worst team with the worst run support. I don't see why the Sox don't go after LHernandez. He is turning into a Colon clone(the Colon before this season) and for far less(6M/yr is a pretty reasonable price for LHernandez). I guess that this would make too much sense. I'm pretty sure he's not available. If he was, you'd hear much more about him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 i thought he was... if he is, i'd take him in a heartbeat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox61382 Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 I'm pretty sure he's not available. If he was, you'd hear much more about him. He is available. There have been numerous articles written about him being available. It is a classic case of the Expos trying to get rid of salary for prospects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 He is available. There have been numerous articles written about him being available. It is a classic case of the Expos trying to get rid of salary for prospects. I agree, I like Ortiz but Hernandez even more. You can be assured if a guy is available, KW has made an inquiry. It might be a situation where they don't match up well in terms of personnel with the Expos. Another factor to consider, since Hernandez is signed for a couple more years, the Expos are perhaps less likely to deal him. The franchise is almost certain to move after this year, and MLB wants them to be competitive in their new market. MLB has to sign off on all Expos trades, other than low level minor league transactions. So it is very likely Minaya is asking for a ton for Hernandez. That would be my theory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 I think this is a pretty good post and I've never been a huge fan of Livan, but I think you bring up a very good piont and I do think Livan could be had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 Livan is a good idea. Then again, with Garland as #3, Show #4 and Diaz/Rauch - #5, just about ANY quality ML pitcher is an improvement. It all depends on whether or not JR is really serious about GOING FOR IT -- as opposed to 2003 half-assed version of "going for it" on a 50 Mill budget. If JR is willing to spend (read: pay remaining salary), then you can get somebody better than Ortiz. Sox need a pitcher and a BP arm, true, but a letigimate #1 is a must if they're to have a chance in ALDS against either East Coast teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 Livan's a good idea, but there's no way he's available. when he signed a three year deal that starts next season in April he took his name off the market. The Major league operated team would not have signed him @ 8MIL,8MIL, &7MIL over the next three years for him to me moved. They want him as the centerpiece of the new franchinse in NOrther Virgina, Portland, Whereever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted June 26, 2004 Share Posted June 26, 2004 I agree, I like Ortiz but Hernandez even more. You can be assured if a guy is available, KW has made an inquiry. It might be a situation where they don't match up well in terms of personnel with the Expos. Another factor to consider, since Hernandez is signed for a couple more years, the Expos are perhaps less likely to deal him. The franchise is almost certain to move after this year, and MLB wants them to be competitive in their new market. MLB has to sign off on all Expos trades, other than low level minor league transactions. So it is very likely Minaya is asking for a ton for Hernandez. That would be my theory. Agreed. I bet Kenny has inquired about every pitcher that even has a slight chance of being dealt... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihatethecubs Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 FYI, ortiz shut out the orioles today 5-0, he pitched 7 innings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 He is available. There have been numerous articles written about him being available. It is a classic case of the Expos trying to get rid of salary for prospects. .........And continue their role in MLB as a farm system for every other team out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 I thought his arm and bat were Mickey Mantle-esque. You sound like Hawk Harrelson. I hate it when analysts compare guys to the all time greats. Todd Van Poppel is NOT the next Nolan Ryan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greasywheels121 Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 I don't know how I'm the first to report this, but I guess they're saying on the Score that the rumor is now.... Mags for Andruw Jones and Russ Ortiz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 lol Or they read my posts this morning. If its that deal straight up, the Sox have to seriously consider it. (I would say take it if you can get Jones signed to a deal of a little less than we were going to offer Magglio.) SB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Critic Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 I don't know how I'm the first to report this, but I guess they're saying on the Score that the rumor is now.... Mags for Andruw Jones and Russ Ortiz That seems like a lot to give up for a rent-a-player, unless they save some money on that deal and plan to slash payroll drastically for next season. Looks like a fantastic deal from the Sox perspective, but would JR allow KW to take on that amount of payroll? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 It would be about +4mil for th White Sox. Jones makes 12 mil, Ortiz $6mil. Ordonez makes 14mil. Wed add some salary, but it would be a pretty huge reward. SB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Critic Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 It would be about +4mil for th White Sox. Jones makes 12 mil, Ortiz $6mil. Ordonez makes 14mil. Wed add some salary, but it would be a pretty huge reward. SB That's not bad at all, considering the 2 mil the Sox stand to save from getting rid of Koch. That would be a really nice deal for the Sox, let's hope it's more than just dumbass Score bulls***. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 A. Jones is awesome defensively but is the Valentin of the Braves (and I'm sure you know what I mean.) But my god what an upgrade. Ortiz is ok too, even though I'm not that high on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 Of course.....just speculation.... but interesting. Ortiz, Andruw to Sox for Mags and John Rauch heres the link and how the deal could be done. www.ajc.com/braves/content/sports/braves/0604/27notes.html Thats from the Atlanta County Journal, I dont feel like subscribing but a Brave's fan posted the link. I kind of expected that we would have to throw them a prospect, but whatever the case both Brave and Sox fans are talking about it. Probably means that we never will see it happen. SB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted June 27, 2004 Author Share Posted June 27, 2004 I just don't see Jones being involved considering the White Sox won't spend "Jones" money on Maggs. Just doesn't seem right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redandwhite Posted June 27, 2004 Author Share Posted June 27, 2004 Thats from the Atlanta County Journal, I dont feel like subscribing but a Brave's fan posted the link. I kind of expected that we would have to throw them a prospect, but whatever the case both Brave and Sox fans are talking about it. Probably means that we never will see it happen. SB Hell, the Braves would love to get rid of those contracts, don't you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 Doesn't Jones hav about 5 to 6 years left on his contract? Can't see us doin that deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 Well thats why on a basic level it makes sense. We know that Williams liked Beltran, and has always been looking for a CF upgrade. We also know Williams once tried to trade for Ortiz, so he probably still has aspirations of acquiring him. The Braves are struggling and need a big time bat, they have the money and probably think if they trade for Maggs, and start working on him now, they can prevent him from getting to free agency. I mean with talents like this, some times the grass looks greener on the other side of the fence. I hope it happens, but after watching the Nomar A Rod trade saga, Ill say Im not optimistic. (Last I can see he signed a 6 year 75 mil contract in 2002, which means he has 4 more years after this. Its probably about 4 years 48 mil, which is less than Maggs wanted. Also of note, he is a Boras client. So extra suspicious. SB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 I dont really like this one. We have to put up with Jones' contract until 2009. I'd much rather just go get Ortiz for some prospects. I've been talking to alot of Braves fans tonight and they dont like it much either. They think they could get a lot more for Ortiz and Jones than just Mags and John. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 KW said Maggs would not be traded guys and Atlanta is under .500 this makes no sense for Atlanta at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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