Wagner Rumor from Phillies Post Game

[3E8]

Ick.

 

I hate deadline deals for relief pitchers.  They could really come back to bite you in the rear-end, especially if you're giving up a future position player/starting pitcher.

 

Marte and McCarthy for Wagner?  Sheesh...  that's a tough call.

I don't like it that much. I'll just take my chances with Marte if this is the deal. I know it's a very very limited amount of innings, but Wagner wasn't great in 3 out of 4 postseasons with the Astros. Sometimes that can be enough to tell you what a closer's mentality is like in the BIG games.

[kev211]

Two quick questions:

 

How old is Wagner? 

 

When does he become a free agent?

32 IIRC

this year

[santo=dorf]

Is it really worth giving up those two just to upgrade Marte for three months? I don't think so. I just wish Ed Wade would accept the fact that his team sucks and they can still compete with Urbina as the closer. I would love to see us get Wagner, but if it costs Marte and McCarthy, count me out.

[Milkman delivers]

I don't understand why it HAS to be a three-month rental. I'd say there's a fair chance at having him sign an extension, especially if the team is competitive and he likes it here.

[nitetrain8601]

I don't understand why it HAS to be a three-month rental.  I'd say there's a fair chance at having him sign an extension, especially if the team is competitive and he likes it here.

 

I agree. Just because someone isn't signed through next year, doesn't make it a 3 month rental. You can't make that judgement until the end of the season.

[CWSGuy406]

Is it really worth giving up those two just to upgrade Marte for three months?  I don't think so.  I just wish Ed Wade would accept the fact that his team sucks and they can still compete with Urbina as the closer.  I would love to see us get Wagner, but if it costs Marte and McCarthy, count me out.

 

I don't like it that much. I'll just take my chances with Marte if this is the deal. I know it's a very very limited amount of innings, but Wagner wasn't great in 3 out of 4 postseasons with the Astros. Sometimes that can be enough to tell you what a closer's mentality is like in the BIG games.

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one who's leery on this. I'd hate to see McCarthy pull end up being like the Garland/Karchner deal... Yes, I realize that Wagner >>> Karchner, but I don't think the upgrade from Marte to Wagner is worth McCarthy.

[DBAHO]

Urbina has sucked at Citizens, given up the long ball, he won't be an effective closer there. Can't see Ed Wade doing this.

[GreenSox]

The lastest from John Marzano is the following as heard on Comcast Sportsnet in Philly:

 

Sox: Wagner

 

Phils: BMac and Marte

Don't shoot the messenger....

 

I hate giving up McCarthy (our only pitching prospect and a damn good one), but that trade's okay in our situation.

 

Better than other proposals I've seen, that have us throwing in 2 other players/prospects, which woud be ridiculous.

 

We need a bat more, though.

[SoxFan1]

I am very stumped as to why Wagner is considering retiring after this season. 34 is still quite young and he is still a top reliever. I would like him on the Sox very much. Hopefully, he'd re-sign instead of re-tiring.

[dasox24]

32 IIRC

this year

Thanks.

 

Also, Marte still has a 2.8 something ERA, which is pretty damn good in my book. I think the deal has it's ups and downs, but if we could take out Marte, and throw in a prospect or 2 (assuming Philadelphia decides they can live without receiving major league talent in return), then I'd do this in a heartbeat.

[Kalapse]

I am very stumped as to why Wagner is considering retiring after this season. 34 is still quite young and he is still a top reliever. I would like him on the Sox very much. Hopefully, he'd re-sign instead of re-tiring.

He doesn't neceassarily want to retire after this year but maybe 2 years down the road he'd like to call it quits.

 

Oh Yeah and Shaq want's to be a cop.

[YASNY]

Thanks.

 

Also, Marte still has a 2.8 something ERA, which is pretty damn good in my book.  I think the deal has it's ups and downs, but if we could take out Marte, and throw in a prospect or 2 (assuming Philadelphia decides they can live without receiving major league talent in return), then I'd do this in a heartbeat.

 

Marte is not the one I have any qualms about trading. His value will never be higher than it is today, and his effectiveness has been gradually going slowly downhill.

[Jordan4life_2007]

The Phillies are only 2.5 games out of the wildcard. I'd be utterly shocked if the Phillies traded him now.

[witesoxfan]

The Phillies are only 2.5 games out of the wildcard.  I'd be utterly shocked if the Phillies traded him now.

 

Ed Wade has to do something to save his job. The Phillies will not win the Wild Card with their current roster. They need atleast 1 more good SP, be it a 2 or a 3, very, very badly. Their pen, on the other hand, is pretty deep all around.

 

I also do not think Marte would remain a Phillie. The Phils have 2 LHP in their pen, Fultz, who has had an outstanding year, and Cormier, who has had a bad year, are pretty much mainstays. I can't say that I've ever seen Cormier pitch, but from what I can tell, his value right now, in all shapes and forms, is too low for a BMac-Cormier for Burnett trade to work, and there is no point in losing Fultz in the deal, particularly since Fultz-BMac won't get the job done either. The fact that Marte, with control and health, is probably a top 3 LHP in the league only helps Florida in this cause.

 

Another thing that could work to the Sox favor in this is that Philly may have to give up another prospect to get Burnett away from Florida. To me, the most coveted SP who is available(unless Schmidt somehow becomes available within the next 36 hours) should get more than a good SP prospect with so-so stuff and a LH reliever who is having a very down year. FG, in his first good year since about 01, netted the Sox top prospect, their future starting catcher, and another fringe type prospect who can hit the hell out of the ball. Why should Philly not have to give up another prospect is kind of what I am wondering.

 

Personally, I am not going to worry about the offense at this point in time. There is still another month of waiver dealings after this, and the Sox only real weakness is against RHP when Podsednik is not getting on base. They are very solid all around against LHP(Everett is hitting about .321 against LHP, Dye has a .994 OPS against LHP, Uribe has a .926 OPS against LHP(ya, that same Uribe who has a devastating .653 OPS on the year...methinks he should not face another RHP all year), Rowand's .386 OBP against LHP, and others have been solid against them too, though those are probably our best 4), but struggle mightily offensively against RHP(like Uribe's OPS in the .550's against RHP, or Everett's sub .300 OBP agaisnt RHP). Preferably, getting 1 guy in August who can hit RHP at about a .350/.500 tune would be good enough...especially if it were to mean someone like Timo getting pushed out. It may end up taking playing time away from Dye and Everett, but with both of them putting up mediocre numbers(or bad in Everett's case) against RHP, getting someone in there who hits RHP well will only help the team.

 

And I think I would normally ramble on some more, but I'm tired, so I'll just let it stay like that.

[Kalapse]

There's no way in hell I'm reading all of that, must you type so damn much?

[Jordan4life_2007]

Ed Wade has to do something to save his job.  The Phillies will not win the Wild Card with their current roster.  They need atleast 1 more good SP, be it a 2 or a 3, very, very badly.  Their pen, on the other hand, is pretty deep all around.

 

I also do not think Marte would remain a Phillie.  The Phils have 2 LHP in their pen, Fultz, who has had an outstanding year, and Cormier, who has had a bad year, are pretty much mainstays.  I can't say that I've ever seen Cormier pitch, but from what I can tell, his value right now, in all shapes and forms, is too low for a BMac-Cormier for Burnett trade to work, and there is no point in losing Fultz in the deal, particularly since Fultz-BMac won't get the job done either.  The fact that Marte, with control and health, is probably a top 3 LHP in the league only helps Florida in this cause. 

 

Another thing that could work to the Sox favor in this is that Philly may have to give up another prospect to get Burnett away from Florida. To me, the most coveted SP who is available(unless Schmidt somehow becomes available within the next 36 hours) should get more than a good SP prospect with so-so stuff and a LH reliever who is having a very down year.  FG, in his first good year since about 01, netted the Sox top prospect, their future starting catcher, and another fringe type prospect who can hit the hell out of the ball.  Why should Philly not have to give up another prospect is kind of what I am wondering.

 

Personally, I am not going to worry about the offense at this point in time.  There is still another month of waiver dealings after this, and the Sox only real weakness is against RHP when Podsednik is not getting on base.  They are very solid all around against LHP(Everett is hitting about .321 against LHP, Dye has a .994 OPS against LHP, Uribe has a .926 OPS against LHP(ya, that same Uribe who has a devastating .653 OPS on the year...methinks he should not face another RHP all year), Rowand's .386 OBP against LHP, and others have been solid against them too, though those are probably our best 4), but struggle mightily offensively against RHP(like Uribe's OPS in the .550's against RHP, or Everett's sub .300 OBP agaisnt RHP).  Preferably, getting 1 guy in August who can hit RHP at about a .350/.500 tune would be good enough...especially if it were to mean someone like Timo getting pushed out.  It may end up taking playing time away from Dye and Everett, but with both of them putting up mediocre numbers(or bad in Everett's case) against RHP, getting someone in there who hits RHP well will only help the team. 

 

And I think I would normally ramble on some more, but I'm tired, so I'll just let it stay like that.

 

 

Wite, believe me, I would love to have Wagner. I hope you're right.

[witesoxfan]

Wite,  believe me,  I would love to have Wagner.  I hope you're right.

 

I hope I'm right too.

 

Wagner puts us over the top, IMO. After you make the Marte-BMac trade, you have 2 things to worry about at that point in time. For starters, the most pressing need, is the bat against RHP. Be it Matt Stairs, Daryle Ward, or perhaps even taking a flyer on a guy like Scott Spiezio or(who I just said I didn't think the Sox had any use for whatsoever in another thread) Jose Cruz Jr, who, while putting up a .213 12 28 line, he has also put up .347/.436/.783 splits overall...and .222 12 24 .347/.487/.835 splits against RHP.

 

The second most pressing need is then getting a swingman for the pen. Be it from within, with (preferably) and most likely Felix Diaz, or by acquiring one, perhaps a guy like Zach Day or John Wasdin(and I say preferably with Diaz just because I really do not want to have to give up a player to get either of those 2, though Day could be a good value pickup). Diaz does not have to be in the majors, with Jenks and Vizcaino both at the back of the pen, with Cotts, Hermanson, Politte, and Wagner all as our studs. In all reality, with those 4 at the end of our pens, games can become 6 inning affairs...that is by far the most important aspect in my mind.

 

I am not a future teller, obviously...but that's just kind of what I think is running through Ed Wade's mind right now. He realizes Houston is playing up to their potential, with Washington starting to fade, and this is his last chance, in all likelyhood, to create a winner. He probably realizes his team will do nothing with their current rotation, so by adding a Burnett, he can increase his team's chances. His pen loses a lot...but he can only hope that Vicente Padilla adapts well to relief work. I think with Wade, you will either see a guy going balls out to save his job, or a guy praying and praying that his team finally gets it, gels, and goes on a big run. The latter will likely not happen.

 

And Kalapse, if you do not read all of that one above or this one, I will do something not so nice to you. I will have to think of it later though.

[GreatScott82]

Well they said if we aqcuired Burnett- we would then ship him to Philly for Wagner straight up. Why not skip a step and go straight for Wagner. IMO Philly would be dumb not to accept this. A young solid lefty set-up man and a potential future ace for an aging closer. If i was KW i would do it- since were going for it this year and our rotation is set for 2006 already anyways. Wagner = stud. This could put us over the top people- hold on to your seats!!!!

[SpringfieldFan]

If they get Wagner, he will only be around for the rest of the year, but that's acceptable. Wagner would be the "bridge" to Jenks in 2006. Meanwhile, there is a World Series trophy to win before that.

[beck72]

Philly could use both BMac and Marte, this yr and the next few. Wade would be pretty foolish to pass it up. Then Marte could be in set up and Urbina moved to closer.

 

Cormier and Fultz may be having decent yrs. But don't have Marte's stuff. Marte would be relatively cheap for Philly and no doubt would be an even better upgrade than Baez [at worst, they are a wash], who they have been rumored to want if they dealt Wagner.

[knightni]

Philly could use both BMac and Marte, this yr and the next few. Wade would be pretty foolish to pass it up. Then Marte could be in set up and Urbina moved to closer.

 

Cormier and Fultz may be having decent yrs. But don't have Marte's stuff. Marte would be relatively cheap for Philly and no doubt would be an even better upgrade than Baez [at worst, they are a wash], who they have been rumored to want if they dealt Wagner.

I'd take Urbina for Vizcaino and Tracey if Wade doesn't want to move Wagner.

[beck72]

I'd take Urbina for Vizcaino and Tracey if Wade doesn't want to move Wagner.

Ozzie is very familiar w/ Urbina and if he wanted him, I'm sure KW could get him. It doesn't sound like Urbina is being moved or shopped