The Official "Fire Ozzie" Thread

[GoodAsGould]

Figures Fathom would make this post

 

Ozzie is Ozzie he makes some questionable moves but this team was predicted by experts to finish 3rd or even 4th and right now we proved all them wrong. Now I know this collapse at the end is really tough and its starting to get me sick of this team but Ozzie is still new to managing and he brought us this far so Im not on the fire Ozzie bandwagon yet.

[fathom]

Where the hell was Timo in the 8th....and no I'm not joking.

 

or AJP or Gload?

[Heads22]

I wonder why no one is targeting Greg Walker...

[Ozzie Montana]

or AJP or Gload?

or me, I'm left-handed. and I can probably handle the bat better than Blum.

Edited September 28, 2005 by Ozzie Montana

[fathom]

Figures Fathom would make this post 

 

Ozzie is Ozzie he makes some questionable moves  but this team was predicted by experts to finish 3rd or even 4th and right now we proved all them wrong.  Now I know this collapse at the end is really tough and its starting to get me sick of this team but Ozzie is still new to managing and he brought us this far so Im not on the fire Ozzie bandwagon yet.

 

Yeah, what an ass I am. Myself, along with a few others, have been concerned all year that Ozzie's managing would catch up to the team down the road. There were so many games that it seemed like we won despite our manager. Now we're in the biggest stretch of the season, and he seems completely incompetent. In the age of Free Agency, you can't use the excuse of it being the managers 2nd year on the job.

 

If the media is asking so many questions about Ozzie, do you really think the team isn't questioning him also?

[fathom]

I wonder why no one is targeting Greg Walker...

 

That's been pretty much beaten to death. Everyone knows he should be fired the day after the season ends. He's just not getting through to his players. The game plan, according to Ozzie tonight, was to go the opposite way on Robertson. Maybe Rowand should pay more attention?

[Rowand44]

That's been pretty much beaten to death.  Everyone knows he should be fired the day after the season ends.  He's just not getting through to his players.  The game plan, according to Ozzie tonight, was to go the opposite way on Robertson.  Maybe Rowand should pay more attention?

I wouldn't doubt if aaron was trying to go that way tonight, he's so off right now that he's just lost in the batters box.

[fathom]

All I will say is this.

 

The one common trend all season has been that this team is not that good on paper, they are some how finding ways to win. For most of the season, and I beleive still now somehow, we have the best record in the AL, if not 2nd best in the MLB. That would mean there are 28 other managers that would love to have the record we have.

 

My question is, why did I hear no love on this about how great Ozzie was in the 1st half? It was all about how we were making things happen, and this is amazing. Now when we lose, its not the players to blame, its Ozzie. If were going to blame Ozzie, should it not go both ways?

 

I'm pretty sure he was the toast of the town during the great start of the season. There were some that were critical of him on here, but that is true on any team's message board for any sport.

 

And BTW, in no way am I trying to turn people against Ozzie. I started this thread to have a legit conversation with my fellow Sox fans about what they feel the fate of the manager should be. I know that none of us have any power with this decision, so I don't think it's such a terrible thread.

[fathom]

I wouldn't doubt if aaron was trying to go that way tonight, he's so off right now that he's just lost in the batters box.

 

Fool me once, shame on me.

Fool me twice, shame on you.

 

What happens if they fool you 5 times?

[Rowand44]

All I will say is this.

 

The one common trend all season has been that this team is not that good on paper, they are some how finding ways to win. For most of the season, and I beleive still now somehow, we have the best record in the AL, if not 2nd best in the MLB. That would mean there are 28 other managers that would love to have the record we have.

 

My question is, why did I hear no love on this about how great Ozzie was in the 1st half? It was all about how we were making things happen, and this is amazing. Now when we lose, its not the players to blame, its Ozzie. If were going to blame Ozzie, should it not go both ways?

Good point tony. Our pitching on paper is damn good and to tell you the truth our offense ain't bad on paper either. Here's the problem, offensively almost every single hitter we have is streaky as all hell so when they're bad they are real bad and vice versa. Guys like Juan, Joe, Dye, Everett all can carry our offense for short periods of time and then just suck for long stretches. Most of us knew that ozzie was a horrendous in game manager but some including myself thought they way he handles the team and motivates these guys outweighed the negatives with him, I'm not so sure about that anymore.

[Rowand44]

Fool me once, shame on me.

Fool me twice, shame on you.

 

What happens if they fool you 5 times?

Ha, you're right, his effort tonight was pitiful, I'm just saying he's so lost at the plate that he just doesn't know what's going on, I think he's just trying to make contact and ya...we saw the results tonight, not good.

[fathom]

Didnt say it was, but in all honesty, I think people are getting sick of your "Blame Ozzie" logic. I dont have a problem with the thread, but I think thats what other people are feeling. I could be way off.

 

I'm not blaming Ozzie for any loss. I'm saying he needs to take a lot of the responsibility for what's happening. Especially when your team is struggling, you need your manager to step up, make decisions that can best help the team, and hope for the best. Trust me, there's a lot of players that deserve a s***load of blame right now. There's one huge difference: they're not responsible for overseeing the whole team.

[Tannerfan]

There should be no question that you never send a utility infielder, who has never been a good hitter, up to the plate in the 8th inning of a 2 run game with the bases loaded. Especially in the middle of a pennant race. This is not a gut decision, it is not an interesting gamble, it is a move by a manager who is in over his head. When the team was on a roll Guillen's moves were not as critical. But now a manager has to know what he's doing and ours does not.

You can't tell me that having Blum hit in the 8th doesn't get the players talking about what this guy is doing. My guess is he is losing the team, while we continue to lose games we should win. If we lose this whole thing how much confidence will anyone have in Guillen going into spring training next year? He is hanging himself with this type of idiocy.

[elrockinMT]

We had a lot of Ozzie supporters till about August ad then slowly but surely the crescendo started. There were many questions about his handling of the pitching, his moves during the game, etc, etc, etc.

I don't know if this collapse is Ozzie's fault or not. I see a manager with no managing experience prior to being chosen last year to lead the Sox. I think it shows, but I also see someone the players like and respect. Many had lost that for Jerry Manuel. Did Ozzie bring out the winning side of the team when we were getting it done? The team had talent under Manuel, but the only thing we really lacked was that 5th starter back then. We had hitting, but it slumped too, but I am not certain it lacked this badly. We lost 2 .300 hitters that could hit 30 plus homers and drive in 100 plus runs and we have what in place of them? That isn't all Ozzie's fault adn we have some hitters just not performing to the levels they can perform. Maybe that's Ozzie's fault and maybe not. We have 5 games left and lead by 2 games. Could we say that in 2001-2002-2003 or 2004? The answer is obviously NO! We can still win this and if we do I'll be happy and I think most of us fit in that category. That's what I choose to think right now. We can WIN this thing. Let's Go Sox!

[3E8]

Fool me once, shame on me.

Fool me twice, shame on you.

 

What happens if they fool you 5 times?

It's the other way around. Plus some poster on this board already bought the rights to fireozzieguillien.com awhile ago. I think it was Antonio Osuna, but I'm not sure. We should get him to fire it up again.

Edited September 28, 2005 by 3E8

[Guest JimH]

That's been pretty much beaten to death.  Everyone knows he should be fired the day after the season ends. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Agree on the first part, on the 2nd part "everyone" is a dubious word choice.

 

How often does the franchise need to change hitting coaches? Von Joshua, Gary Ward, now this guy? I don't like the hitting results but I do like at least being in a pennant race on Sept. 28th, unlike other years recently.

 

Things can always be improved upon though, there's no doubt about that.

[fathom]

Agree on the first part, on the 2nd part "everyone" is a dubious word choice.

 

How often does the franchise need to change hitting coaches?  Von Joshua, Gary Ward, now this guy?  I don't like the hitting results but I do like at least being in a pennant race on Sept. 28th, unlike other years recently.

 

Things can always be improved upon though, there's no doubt about that.

 

What really disappoints me is the lack of improvement by any of the Sox hitters this season. Do we not teach them about the slider in the dirt in Spring Training? It was interesting hearing stories about the Rangers hitting coach on Sunday night, and the way he works with his hitters to drive the ball.

 

This offense needs some tough lefty batters to balance out the lineup. No matter what happens in the next 5 games or more, this particular lineup doesn't have a lot of balance.

[nitetrain8601]

Agree on the first part, on the 2nd part "everyone" is a dubious word choice.

 

How often does the franchise need to change hitting coaches?  Von Joshua, Gary Ward, now this guy?  I don't like the hitting results but I do like at least being in a pennant race on Sept. 28th, unlike other years recently.

 

Things can always be improved upon though, there's no doubt about that.

 

I would seriously think about bringing back Walt Hriniak. That or jumping CLE, TEX, or TB for their hitting coaches.

[DBAHO]

I really think Ozzie's gonna jump ship to Florida this off-season, when they fire McKeon (which is pretty much a lock to happen now).

[3E8]

I really think Ozzie's gonna jump ship to Florida this off-season, when they fire McKeon (which is pretty much a lock to happen now).

[VAfan]

Here's what I fault Ozzie for.

 

1. El Duque instead of McCarthy. El Duque went 1-8 in the second half. McCarthy won two huge games, should have beaten Santana, and could have won tonight with anything from the hitters. He certainly should have stuck with McCarthy after back to back shut outs of Texas and Boston, yet he still lost another 2 games with the Duke. That's 2 games that would put us in the playoffs as of today.

 

2. Ross Gload. I can't figure out why this guy didn't get ABs in August when we started scuffling. In AAA, Gload was on fire. 45 for 107, with 7 HRs, 14 doubles, 24 runs, 24 RBI. Instead, we got a month of Timo Perez, who hit absolutely nothing. And Gload isn't just a AAA ballplayer. He had the Sox' best batting average last year for guys with more than 200 ABs.

 

3. Forgetting what got us here. In the beginning of the year, Ozzie used the whole team. In the last month, he refuses to use fresh blood to rest tired and tight hitters. When was the last time Rowand got a night off? We have a team full of guys who go into major funks, but Ozzie just keeps writing their name in the lineup card hoping they'll pull out of it. Eventually they do, but we lose game after game waiting for them to do so.

 

4. Poor game management. Tonight he finally used pinch hitters and they helped load the bases with one out in a 2-run game. But then he used Blum, one of our worst hitters, to pinch hit, and he grounds meekly into a DP. Why not Gload? Or even Timo Perez? Ozzie also left Rowand to hit for himself in the 9th even though he'd meekly grounded out 4 times, and did it a 5th time in the 9th. A pinch hitter was called for. There are many, many other examples.

 

5. Bizarre bullpen management. Why is Damaso Marte often used in more critical situations than Neil Cotts? Marte is a walk machine. Cotts is typically lights out. Ozzie has done a decent job here, but some of his mistakes have cost us.

 

Thank goodness our rivals all lost tonight because our team isn't playing with any urgency right now.

[Buehrle>Wood]

I really think Ozzie's gonna jump ship to Florida this off-season, when they fire McKeon (which is pretty much a lock to happen now).

I know most people look at the whole what he has with ties to the franchise. But he has many more ties here, IMO.

 

So his decision would have to be based off something else.

[fathom]

I know most people look at the whole what he has with ties to the franchise. But he has many more ties here, IMO.

 

So his decision would have to be based off something else.

 

A hell of a lot less pressure from the Florida media.

[southsideirish71]

I know most people look at the whole what he has with ties to the franchise. But he has many more ties here, IMO.

 

So his decision would have to be based off something else.

 

 

If he f***s this up and we dont make the playoffs, he will not be welcome here by soxfans. 15 game lead, I could give a flying f*** how hot the Indians are. We have lost a bunch of this lead by losing to the Texas no pitching Rangers, Tigers, and the Royals. If we play 500 ball against this pile of feces we have clinched already.

[fathom]

Excellent points VAfan