Dick Allen Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 QUOTE(travelinman89 @ Dec 28, 2005 -> 01:05 PM) Jeez, that's awesome we're only spending a Total of $90.05. But how are the players gonna support a family? How much you want to bet that the out of the NBA Latrell Sprewell is or at least was collecting unemployment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 (edited) QUOTE(jphat007 @ Dec 28, 2005 -> 02:01 PM) We already knew he had the stuff. All he needed was confidence. How could he be any less confident than he was in the second half? He's gotta be filled with the stuff. I don't agree with choosing JG over JC for the next three years if thats what we did. I will REALLY be pissed if we choose JV over JC for the next three years, especially considering how much JV makes. JC is our number 1 or 2 freaking starter. Actually their salary isn't that much different considering we are getting money from Arizona, and given the market for pitching right now Contreras will be making a lot more if he keeps pitching like this (probably a short $12 mil/year deal, with no money coming from other teams to defray the cost). Considering that Contreras is listed at 34 (probably even older), I don't know how much longer we can depend on him anyways. It is conceivable that his improved control in the second half was not a permanent improvement. It's also possible that now that El Duque is gone he's not going to feel quite as comfortable without a good friend of his. His confidence could also be shaken if he has a rough outing early in the year. Jose is the biggest question mark on our staff. It doesn't seem to take much to get him out of rythm. When he's on he can be very good, but that hasn't happened too often in his career. I can live with letting the oldest of our starters with the least amount of time left on his contract go. Edited December 28, 2005 by ZoomSlowik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S720 Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 Folks, Somehow I have a feelings that this signing is the prelude to a huge trade with the O's - Garland & Uribe for Tejada & prospects. Now that Garland is signed for 3 years for a measly $29 mil, Kenny just doubled up or even tripled Garland's trading value. What an exciting offseason! One thing is certain, with Kenny at the helm, there can never be tranquility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jphat007 Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Dec 28, 2005 -> 01:10 PM) Actually their salary is almost identical for the next couple of years because we are getting money from Arizona. Considering that Contreras is listed at 34 (probably even older), I don't know how much longer we can depend on him anyways. It is conceivable that his improved control in the second half was not a permanent improvement. It's also possible that now that El Duque is gone he's not going to feel quite as comfortable without a good friend of his. His confidence could also be shaken if he has a rough outing early in the year. Jose is the biggest question mark on our staff. It doesn't seem to take much to get him out of rythm. When he's on he can be very good, but that hasn't happened too often in his career. I can live with letting the oldest of our starters with the least amount of time left on his contract go. Well you have to take that chance. Jose was one of the best starters in the AL in the second half and playoffs. You just don't pitch that aside because you get contract assurances from mediocre pitchers. I mean, I understand what KW did, but if it means getting rid of an Ace just for rotation security, I don't like it. If JC is here for all of 06, I won't complain as much because that gives us a chance for another world series. But if you go into the season with: Buerhle Garcia? Garland Vazquez McCarthy You are just asking for a crushed expectations. Gotta have JC in that equation. Buerhle Contreras Garland Garcia McCarthy is a truly awesome rotation. The Vazquez trade just looks confusing in my eyes now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Sox Josh Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 This is a great birthday present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 QUOTE(S720 @ Dec 28, 2005 -> 01:13 PM) Folks, Somehow I have a feelings that this signing is the prelude to a huge trade with the O's - Garland & Uribe for Tejada & prospects. Now that Garland is signed for 3 years for a measly $29 mil, Kenny just doubled up or even tripled Garland's trading value. What an exciting offseason! One thing is certain, with Kenny at the helm, there can never be tranquility. What would be interesting to find out is if the Sox and Contreras are still negotiating an extension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 I wonder if KW forsees an injury to one of the pitchers and just wants to make sure we are as covered as possible for at least the first half. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 Yay! Now VAFan can move onto obsessing over keeping another player! LOL, he must be dancing a jig in VA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Dec 28, 2005 -> 11:16 AM) What would be interesting to find out is if the Sox and Contreras are still negotiating an extension. Well, like a week ago supposedly all negotiations between Garland's people and the Sox were completely shut down, so about the only way you're gonna learn that fact is to mind-meld with Kenny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heirdog Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 QUOTE(S720 @ Dec 28, 2005 -> 03:13 PM) Folks, Somehow I have a feelings that this signing is the prelude to a huge trade with the O's - Garland & Uribe for Tejada & prospects. Now that Garland is signed for 3 years for a measly $29 mil, Kenny just doubled up or even tripled Garland's trading value. What an exciting offseason! One thing is certain, with Kenny at the helm, there can never be tranquility. I think it will be Garland and mid-level prospect for Bedard and Jorge Julio. KW wanted two prospects for Garland and Baltimore balked when KW insisted on Bedard instead of the two prospects, especially since JG would be a FA at the end of next year. Now, with JG signed to an affordable 3-year deal with a low '06 number, I think KW goes back and asks for Bedard (an even more affordable contract with great stuff and lefty to boot) and another set-up man/closer-type in Julio. In order to get Julio too, we might have to add in a mid-level prospect. I hope its Tejada but I think it will be a smaller deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 QUOTE(jphat007 @ Dec 28, 2005 -> 02:15 PM) Well you have to take that chance. Jose was one of the best starters in the AL in the second half and playoffs. You just don't pitch that aside because you get contract assurances from mediocre pitchers. I mean, I understand what KW did, but if it means getting rid of an Ace just for rotation security, I don't like it. If JC is here for all of 06, I won't complain as much because that gives us a chance for another world series. But if you go into the season with: Buerhle Garcia? Garland Vazquez McCarthy You are just asking for a crushed expectations. Gotta have JC in that equation. Buerhle Contreras Garland Garcia McCarthy is a truly awesome rotation. The Vazquez trade just looks confusing in my eyes now. We've obviously got very different opinions on the two players. It seems that you never want to look beyond what happened last year when analyzing players. One good half season doesn't mean that he's suddenly a certified ace pitcher that we can't live without. Vazquez is the same type of pitcher as Jose, only he's younger and has a better history of pitching well. Even looking at the last two years for Javier, he pitched considerably better than Jose did when we acquired him, and for the rest of that year. Javier was an all-star in his first year with the Yankees, but he just fell apart in the second half. It's highly possible that he had an injury that threw him off, or that he simply had a dead arm and wasn't quite the same (he was worked pretty heavily in Montreal). You can virtually throw out that season in Arizona. That was an awful situation to be put in by the Yankees. Not only is the stadium a bandbox where your breaking pitches don't work as well, he was unhappy and stuck on a losing team. Javier is a very gifted starter that is moving into a much better environment with the Sox. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he was our best starter next year. The two guys have similar talent levels, but Javier is 5 years younger, has a less checkered past in terms of performance, and has a determined contract situation for the next 3 years. We'll see what happens, but I don't really see that much of a difference in their pitching abilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 I'm happy thsat we are keeping Big Jon. I would like to see Contreras stay also, but we need to sign Joe Crede to a deal as well as that new dude Mckyowiakwacker, or wheoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Dec 28, 2005 -> 07:27 PM) We've obviously got very different opinions on the two players. It seems that you never want to look beyond what happened last year when analyzing players. One good half season doesn't mean that he's suddenly a certified ace pitcher that we can't live without. Vazquez is the same type of pitcher as Jose, only he's younger and has a better history of pitching well. Even looking at the last two years for Javier, he pitched considerably better than Jose did when we acquired him, and for the rest of that year. Javier was an all-star in his first year with the Yankees, but he just fell apart in the second half. It's highly possible that he had an injury that threw him off, or that he simply had a dead arm and wasn't quite the same (he was worked pretty heavily in Montreal). You can virtually throw out that season in Arizona. That was an awful situation to be put in by the Yankees. Not only is the stadium a bandbox where your breaking pitches don't work as well, he was unhappy and stuck on a losing team. Javier is a very gifted starter that is moving into a much better environment with the Sox. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he was our best starter next year. The two guys have similar talent levels, but Javier is 5 years younger, has a less checkered past in terms of performance, and has a determined contract situation for the next 3 years. We'll see what happens, but I don't really see that much of a difference in their pitching abilities. I think we are looking at a 6 pitcher rotation. Did you notice how much stronger our guys were during the post season when they had some extra rest? Of course we might not see that rotation until the middle of May or so because of early off days during April, but I think it would be awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 QUOTE(heirdog @ Dec 28, 2005 -> 02:25 PM) I think it will be Garland and mid-level prospect for Bedard and Jorge Julio. KW wanted two prospects for Garland and Baltimore balked when KW insisted on Bedard instead of the two prospects, especially since JG would be a FA at the end of next year. Now, with JG signed to an affordable 3-year deal with a low '06 number, I think KW goes back and asks for Bedard (an even more affordable contract with great stuff and lefty to boot) and another set-up man/closer-type in Julio. In order to get Julio too, we might have to add in a mid-level prospect. I hope its Tejada but I think it will be a smaller deal. That deal doesn't make a lot of sense for us. Julio has a live arm, but not a whole lot of control or breaking pitches, and is a bit of a hot head. Bedard is basically an unproven major league starter that would actually be a downgrade from what we have, especially looking at his performance after he got hurt. If we were going to replace Jon with another starter it would make more sense to just stick with B-Mac, who is already on our roster and was a very good pitcher for us in the second half. I'm certain that B-Mac would outperform Bedard if both were given a full season as a starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 Well this is good news to wake up to and I got to admit I was completely wrong about Jon, I thought he was gone for sure after this season no matter what. I will say though I still don't want to trade Jose he's just to damn good to trade imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drowninginflame Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 I completely figure he was a goner, I'm shocked. Now, he's getting paid so he better earn this money again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 BRAVO KENNY!!! Now lets see if Garland can repeat his outstanding performance of last season now that he got his money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AirScott Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 QUOTE(elrockinMT @ Dec 28, 2005 -> 02:31 PM) I think we are looking at a 6 pitcher rotation. Did you notice how much stronger our guys were during the post season when they had some extra rest? Of course we might not see that rotation until the middle of May or so because of early off days during April, but I think it would be awesome. well, with 3 starters pitching in the WBC, I'll bet they won't start out with a 6-man rotation, but it makes the Vazquez trade all the better, as it improves the rotation and causes McCarthy to be an insurance policy in case of an injury to a starter, as well as regularly getting spot starts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 Folks, Somehow I have a feelings that this signing is the prelude to a huge trade with the O's - Garland & Uribe for Tejada & prospects. Now that Garland is signed for 3 years for a measly $29 mil, Kenny just doubled up or even tripled Garland's trading value. What an exciting offseason! One thing is certain, with Kenny at the helm, there can never be tranquility. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You said it better than I could have, nice job. Not sure about Tejada but I think there's another trade in the works. A player like Garland always has more value if they're signed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 QUOTE(NUKE_CLEVELAND @ Dec 28, 2005 -> 02:32 PM) BRAVO KENNY!!! Now lets see if Garland can repeat his outstanding performance of last season now that he got his money. statement of the month around here. Many people on this site pegged Jon to fall back to his "Judy" Garland days and just be happy being mediocre because he got paid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch and Judy Garland Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 Glad to hear Jon gave the discount. Won't be very happy if Jose leaves because I think that this is his American home now and the fans have embraced him. It jus doesn't make much sense to keep both him and Jon unless they feel that a year in the pen would do Mac a lot of good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedoctor Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 28, 2005 -> 07:20 PM) I wonder if KW forsees an injury to one of the pitchers and just wants to make sure we are as covered as possible for at least the first half. i wonder this as well, particularly as it relates to vazquez, buehrle and garcia pitching in the wbc this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjm676 Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 QUOTE(JimH @ Dec 28, 2005 -> 01:34 PM) You said it better than I could have, nice job. Not sure about Tejada but I think there's another trade in the works. A player like Garland always has more value if they're signed. Contreras/Uribe for Tejada? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 QUOTE(JimH @ Dec 28, 2005 -> 02:34 PM) You said it better than I could have, nice job. Not sure about Tejada but I think there's another trade in the works. A player like Garland always has more value if they're signed. Is Garland tradeable? I thought teams had to wait a certain period of time before trading a player after signing him or extending him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjm676 Posted December 28, 2005 Share Posted December 28, 2005 QUOTE(robinventura23 @ Dec 28, 2005 -> 01:35 PM) Contreras/Uribe for Tejada? Sorry that should have been in green. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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