Steve9347 Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 I've been defending him all year, but I'm at the point where I can't take it anymore. It just doesn't look like the effort is there. The guy can pitch, but he's choosing not to... at least Jon and Freddy have their good games, but Javy just plain stinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 did this really warrant its own thread? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 I was never a fan of the trade to begin with. Â Just a bad move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wsox08 Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 He will settle down, trust me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxman352000 Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 I have to agree, I'm done with him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 QUOTE(Steve9347 @ Jul 6, 2006 -> 07:52 PM) I've been defending him all year, but I'm at the point where I can't take it anymore. It just doesn't look like the effort is there. The guy can pitch, but he's choosing not to... at least Jon and Freddy have their good games, but Javy just plain stinks. Â I'm sure he goes out there and says, "I won't be pitching today. Not well, anyway. Score some runs if you wish to win, and hope the bullpen holds up, teammates!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted July 7, 2006 Author Share Posted July 7, 2006 QUOTE(Greg Hibbard @ Jul 6, 2006 -> 07:54 PM) did this really warrant its own thread? Â um, yeah. but thanks for the comment, forum troll. Â QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jul 6, 2006 -> 08:17 PM) I'm sure he goes out there and says, "I won't be pitching today. Not well, anyway. Score some runs if you wish to win, and hope the bullpen holds up, teammates!" Â gee, or maybe he's got the 16 million in his back pocket and doesn't put forth as much effort as he could in workouts, stretches, etc. if you think that no players work like that you're living in lala land. :headshake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Critic Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 Call me crazy, but I still believe he's going to win some big games for the Sox. He's a more than decent 4th/5th starter in my opinion, despite not pitching particularly well lately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick0984 Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 ya but i can't see Ozzie or Coop putting up with a player "not putting in 100%." i think it's just a confidence/attitude problem really. eventually, hopefully sooner than later, it'll turn around. Â on a side note, after that crap 3 run inning, which wasn't ALL his fault, he's picked it back up, instead of folding like he normally does. Â *crosses fingers* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 QUOTE(Steve9347 @ Jul 6, 2006 -> 08:21 PM) gee, or maybe he's got the 16 million in his back pocket and doesn't put forth as much effort as he could in workouts, stretches, etc. if you think that no players work like that you're living in lala land. Â You don't have anything that proves or even alleges that Vazquez is dogging it backstage. It is possible, but I doubt it. Â He's got head issues, and loses his control. He doesn't half-ass his efforts, thanks, and I think that watching him and the anger he has whenever he loses should show that he cares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitewashed in '05 Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 Everything is mental with that guy. That's something I am sure KW knew before he got him. Hopefully their plan works. To expect Vazquez to come in and pitch lights out with Coop from the beginning is dumb, but no one expected him to be as bad as he is now either. Â Other things I notice is that he doesn't put guys away when he's ahead. He might get them 0-2 quickly and then let them get back in the count. That happens a lot with him. He misses with some of his breaking stuff and then throws his FB that they are ready to hammer because they know it will be in the strike zone since he doesn't want to walk them. Either they sit on his FB or he hangs his breaking stuff. Â A perfect example of his issues is his last start where he allowed the big HR then proceeded to walk the next guy and then give up the bomb again. The coaching staff needs to keep pounding him in the head the correct thing to do which is why they got him. to correct his mental lapses. The thing I am worried about is the fact that he's a veteran in the league and won't listen to what anyone says. He might never change. It's the risk they took in acquiring him. I hope this is just a rough stretch for him because we really need our guys to straighten out from here on out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry&JimmyRocked Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 QUOTE(The Critic @ Jul 6, 2006 -> 08:28 PM) Call me crazy, but I still believe he's going to win some big games for the Sox. He's a more than decent 4th/5th starter in my opinion, despite not pitching particularly well lately. Â Â He'll NEVER win a BIG game for this team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Zelig Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 QUOTE(Steve9347 @ Jul 6, 2006 -> 07:52 PM) I've been defending him all year, but I'm at the point where I can't take it anymore. It just doesn't look like the effort is there. The guy can pitch, but he's choosing not to... at least Jon and Freddy have their good games, but Javy just plain stinks.   QUOTE(soxman352000 @ Jul 6, 2006 -> 08:13 PM) I have to agree, I'm done with him   What exactly do you mean when you say you are done with him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted July 7, 2006 Author Share Posted July 7, 2006 QUOTE(Leonard Zelig @ Jul 6, 2006 -> 08:55 PM) What exactly do you mean when you say you are done with him? Â done getting excited about seeing him start. i was all over this guy when we got him... figured he'd be racking up the strike outs, and have a great whip (which he did start off with) Â im done thinking he's going to ever revert back to the montreal days. thats what i was hoping for. he's at best an innings eater who will finish the season with a 4.50 era. not awful, but not what i was hoping for either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 Contreras was done when the Sox traded for him too. Â How long did it take for that crappy pitcher to get settled? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Jul 6, 2006 -> 09:17 PM) Contreras was done when the Sox traded for him too. How long did it take for that crappy pitcher to get settled? You can't compare the two at all. Contreras came from Cuba, changed his style and started throwing strikes. Vazquez doesn't have acclimation problems, he's been around and mediocre for a while, and he already throws strikes. Unfortunately the Sox will be stuck with Vazquez this year and next, and there most likely is no chance they would offer him arbitration to pitch like he has. Maybe they will give his money to Buerhle. If Young fulfills his promise, its a worse trade than Todd Ritchie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 So Javy hasnt gone from the NL to AL to NL to AL? Â Atleast Contreras had played in NY and stayed in the same league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 QUOTE(Steve9347 @ Jul 6, 2006 -> 08:21 PM) um, yeah. but thanks for the comment, forum troll. gee, or maybe he's got the 16 million in his back pocket and doesn't put forth as much effort as he could in workouts, stretches, etc. if you think that no players work like that you're living in lala land. :headshake  Where are you getting the 16 mil from? He's "only" making 10.5 this year, and to the best of my knowledge we aren't even paying all of it. Granted that's the most on the team, but it's not quite that ridiculous.  He didn't look that bad today. He was getting ahead of hitter more and wasn't leaving as many meatballs over the middle of the plate. He got victimized by an error, and several of the hits he allowed were on pretty solid pitches. If he keeps pitching like he did tonight, he's going to come out ahead more often than not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 Where are you getting the 16 mil from? He's "only" making 10.5 this year, and to the best of my knowledge we aren't even paying all of it. Granted that's the most on the team, but it's not quite that ridiculous. He didn't look that bad today. He was getting ahead of hitter more and wasn't leaving as many meatballs over the middle of the plate. He got victimized by an error, and several of the hits he allowed were on pretty solid pitches. If he keeps pitching like he did tonight, he's going to come out ahead more often than not.  Zoom you need to stop with the common sense stuff, it doesn't play well here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 It took Contreras 1 half season of suckiness, 1 half season of improvement but not all the way there yet, and than perfection sense. Vazquez has gone through his half season of suckiness and id hope to see improvement out of him this 2nd half of the season. Â Â Still im more confident with him on the mound than I am with Freddy Garcia. Unlike with Freddy at least all the rest of our pitchers havent lost their "stuff" and in Buehrles case control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoota Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 I was hoping an umpire would've gone out to the mound to check Javy's balls, but then I realized Javy doesn't have any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Fireworks Man Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Jul 6, 2006 -> 09:17 PM) Contreras was done when the Sox traded for him too. How long did it take for that crappy pitcher to get settled?  Javy Vazquez is no Jose Contreras.  QUOTE(shoota @ Jul 6, 2006 -> 09:58 PM) I was hoping an umpire would've gone out to the mound to check Javy's balls, but then I realized Javy doesn't have any.  Zing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 forum troll? lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 (edited) *COUGH* JOSE CONTRERAS *COUGH* Â Â nuffsed. Â EDIT: i clicked fast reply too early i see. Â i dont care if you "cant compare them" - what i see is two pitchers who their only issues were mental. Coop fixed one, why the hell not try and fix another. This will be a great thread to pull back later when Javy DOES win a big game. And he will. Â I guarantee he will. Edited July 7, 2006 by Reddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Jul 6, 2006 -> 09:42 PM) He didn't look that bad today. He was getting ahead of hitters more ... He was? Were you watching a tivo'd game from earlier in the season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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