Why does our starting pitching suck?

[daa84]

its abundantly clear to me that 1.) with our starters not going deep, there is a need for another bullpen arm, simply in terms of numbers, and 2.) ross gload does nothing for this team rob mackowiak can't do.....that said i think its time to take another look at tracey, even if its for mop up duty

[Jordan4life_2007]

Well, the All-Star Break has come and gone. Aren't our garbage starters supposed to "turn it on" now? Or "get into a groove" or something? Hasn't Coop fixed them yet?

 

Don't worry. It's only a matter of time before they get their s*** together. There's nothing to worry about here. Move along, and put your head back in that sand.

 

Then why don't you just call it a season and move on?

[Milkman delivers]

Then why don't you just call it a season and move on?

 

I'm not gonna get in a personal argument over the fact that our starters are horses***.

[elrockinMT]

Yes, it's only July, but the pitching hasn't been that good all year. The other teams pitching get better and that means our offense will be hard pressed to keep up what they have been doing this year. Our pitching on the other hand continues to flounder. The team has way to much talent not to finish on top, but they have to get back on track before we slip even out of winning the wild card berth. I don't want to settle for the wild card anyway and don't think this is a team that should be looking at that as the playoof possibility. There is still a long ways to go and I believe we can start playing like champs again and be the champs.

Edited July 15, 2006 by elrockinMT

[Balta1701]

its abundantly clear to me that 1.) with our starters not going deep, there is a need for another bullpen arm, simply in terms of numbers, and 2.) ross gload does nothing for this team rob mackowiak can't do.....that said i think its time to take another look at tracey, even if its for mop up duty

Actually, our starters are still going ungodly deep into games compared to every other team in baseball. Even after that 19 inning mess, we still have the fewest bullpen innings pitched in baseball. And even if the guy in San Fran pitches a complete game today, today's disaster still won't be enough to change it.

 

Anywho, this keeps up for another week, and it's time for a shakeup. Shakeup = Brandon McCarthy moving into the rotation, and someone else moving out.

[elrockinMT]

Maybe Politte goes on the DL and Hermanson comes back? He seems to be pitching well in his rehab assignmetn and I think Politte is still hurt.

[beck72]

Two games into the 2nd half and the sox are worse than the Cubs, huh?!

 

Jose pitched decent last night, the bullpen blew it. Today MB was rocked [again]. But will they get it back? Probably in time. If not, there isn't an arm out there that could help. The sox will live or die with their SP. The innings the last few yrs may be getting to them. But I'll still take them over most rotations out there.

[Milkman delivers]

Maybe Politte goes on the DL and Hermanson comes back? He seems to be pitching well in his rehab assignmetn and I think Politte is still hurt.

 

Dustin Hermanson is a non-factor. Please, everyone, get this through your heads.

[southsideirish71]

Politte needs to be designated. He is done. Hermy has back discomfort. If we rely on either of them, then we are nuts. Remember if a player, no matter how crappy is on a team, ozzie will play him. Timo Perez was a DH, a 1st baseman, and our leadoff hitter last year.

 

 

Buerhle needs to start to get his pitches down in the zone a bit more. And throw his cutter into righties more. Pitchers like Buerhle live on deception, guile and control. He needs to run that cutter in on the hands of righties to get his changeup away to be effective. Today all he did was throw medicore fastballs belt high over the middle of the plate.

 

Garcia needs to start throwing hard, get traded, or get an MRI.

 

Vazquez needs to throw his slider more o 2 strike pitches to righties. He likes to throw his curve or his two seamer which seem to get him beat.

 

Garland needs to do more of what he has been doing. Pitching in and running his sinker down and in to righties.

 

Contreras needs to keep on his track. He is almost turned the corne.

 

 

And Ozzie needs to stop trying to get X pitcher the victory and worry more about the Whitesox getting the win. To many times he lets a pitcher start an inning hoping that he will get the victory, instead of letting his bullpen take care of it. Or worse, he lets a pitcher get mauled over the coals for 8 or more runs, only to have us come back just short at the end of the game. You dont need to let a pitcher give up 8 or more to figure out he is having a bad day.

 

 

Bmac needs to be in the rotation. His arm is electric, his change is nasty and this kid is chomping at the bit to start. Putting him in the rotation will give this team life

Edited July 15, 2006 by southsideirish71

[whitesox91403]

Politte needs to be designated. He is done. Hermy has back discomfort. If we rely on either of them, then we are nuts. Remember if a player, no matter how crappy is on a team, ozzie will play him. Timo Perez was a DH, a 1st baseman, and our leadoff hitter last year.

Buerhle needs to start to get his pitches down in the zone a bit more. And throw his cutter into righties more. Pitchers like Buerhle live on deception, guile and control. He needs to run that cutter in on the hands of righties to get his changeup away to be effective. Today all he did was throw medicore fastballs belt high over the middle of the plate.

 

Garcia needs to start throwing hard, get traded, or get an MRI.

 

Vazquez needs to throw his slider more o 2 strike pitches to righties. He likes to throw his curve or his two seamer which seem to get him beat.

 

Garland needs to do more of what he has been doing. Pitching in and running his sinker down and in to righties.

 

Contreras needs to keep on his track. He is almost turned the corne.

And Ozzie needs to stop trying to get X pitcher the victory and worry more about the Whitesox getting the win. To many times he lets a pitcher start an inning hoping that he will get the victory, instead of letting his bullpen take care of it. Or worse, he lets a pitcher get mauled over the coals for 8 or more runs, only to have us come back just short at the end of the game. You dont need to let a pitcher give up 8 or more to figure out he is having a bad day.

Bmac needs to be in the rotation. His arm is electric, his change is nasty and this kid is chomping at the bit to start. Putting him in the rotation will give this team life

 

 

 

Nice post and I agree on all counts.

[TheBlackSox8]

Nice post and I agree on all counts.

I second that...trade Garcia or Vazquez for relief pitching and give the kid a shot.

[RibbieRubarb]

I'm not gonna get in a personal argument over the fact that our starters are horses***.

 

Yet, you told the rest of us to put our collective heads back in the sand?

[Milkman delivers]

Yet, you told the rest of us to put our collective heads back in the sand?

 

My comment was made towards the general idea that everything will solve itself, not at anyone in particular. I'm not about to start arguing back and forth personally to cause the entire thread to be closed.

[RibbieRubarb]

My comment was made towards the general idea that everything will solve itself, not at anyone in particular. I'm not about to start arguing back and forth personally to cause the entire thread to be closed.

 

It's cool. Thats not how it came out. But I see your point.

[Milkman delivers]

[shoota]

Two games into the 2nd half and the sox are worse than the Cubs, huh?!

 

Jose pitched decent last night, the bullpen blew it. Today MB was rocked [again]. But will they get it back? Probably in time. If not, there isn't an arm out there that could help. The sox will live or die with their SP. The innings the last few yrs may be getting to them. But I'll still take them over most rotations out there.

 

Most rotations won't win the World Series. Only one will, so comparing our shaky rotation to other rotations that won't win the World Series is blemished thinking.

[beck72]

Most rotations won't win the World Series. Only one will, so comparing our shaky rotation to other rotations that won't win the World Series is blemished thinking.

And your solution to change the current sox rotation into one that could win the world series is.....?

 

The sox already upgraded its rotation from '05 with a trade of a solid bullpen guy and Chris Young a top prospect. Besides putting Bmac into the rotation, there aren't alot of better options out there. Like it or not, the sox and us fans will have to ride this rotation for this year and see where it takes them

[shoota]

And your solution to change the current sox rotation into one that could win the world series is.....?

 

The sox already upgraded its rotation from '05 with a trade of a solid bullpen guy and Chris Young a top prospect. Besides putting Bmac into the rotation, there aren't alot of better options out there. Like it or not, the sox and us fans will have to ride this rotation for this year and see where it takes them

 

Your response admits you agree with my thinking that the performance of the Sox rotation is not good enough to win the World Series.

 

You ask what my solution is to fix the Sox rotation, but instead of answering, I'll ask this: Since you don't believe the performance of the Sox rotation is Championship-caliber, why do you defend and praise it, when you admit its performance is not Championship-caliber?

Edited July 16, 2006 by shoota

[RX Bandits]

hey people....

 

chill the hell out.

 

where's your faith? the yankees are a good team. fridays game could have gone our way easily. look at the 8th inning they had. none of those singles were hit hard. Our guys have been there before, ozzie will get their asses in line, and KW will fix this "mess". moreover THERE IS STILL HALF A SEASON!!!!!!!!!!!!! Detroit cannot play .650 ball the rest of the way, nor do I think all their pitchers can hold up in the second half as the innings pile up.

 

At least Aaron Roawand's name wasnt mentioned yet. coughoverratedcough.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I'm not gonna get in a personal argument over the fact that our starters are horses***.

 

Who's arguing? You seem to think that there's no chance that our starters are gonna come around. So why not take yourself out of your misery and stop watching?

[beck72]

Your response admits you agree with my thinking that the performance of the Sox rotation is not good enough to win the World Series.

 

You ask what my solution is to fix the Sox rotation, but instead of answering, I'll ask this: Since you don't believe the performance of the Sox rotation is Championship-caliber, why do you defend and praise it, when you admit its performance is not Championship-caliber?

 

I was responding to the posts that basically say the SP's suck. Is it "blemished thinking" [as you referred to my post] to think the current Sox SP's are more capable of rebounding than other rotations that are currently underperforming? You were the one that described the sox rotation as "shaky". Shaky IMO means a rotation held together by young unproven arms along with veterans on the DL. You're making the assumption that I don't believe the current sox SP's are capable of winning the WS. This is wrong. They won with this group and added an even better SP with Vazquez at #5. What's not to like?

 

They aren't as consistent as last yr. There's no denying it. As long as they are healthy [all of them may not be] it doesn't make sense trading away the entire sox farm system for an arm that is better than what the sox have.

 

It is very reasonable to expect the sox rotation to pitch better in the 2nd half. Barring injuries, to a man, all are capable of throwing better than their 1st halfs. I expect this. I suspect the sox brain trust are counting on this.

 

My solution is to add a stellar bullpen arm ala Tom Gordon, have BMac around just in case he needs to be inserted into the rotation due to ineffectiveness/ injury, and count on the SP's to rebound. Your solution?

Edited July 16, 2006 by beck72

[gosox41]

It's a combination of things. Our pitchers pitched over their heads last season, Vazquez is pitching like he normally does (mediocre), and historically a lot of times staffs that pitch late into October often have down years the following season.

 

Schmidt is not the answer. It's D. Willis or bust. Sox won't repeat with pitching like this.

 

 

I've heard that before but I didn't expect them to get this bad. What it comes down to is that these guys made an extra 3 starts last year. And actually that's not accurate as I believe Garland only made 2 and Contreras made 4, assuming I remember correctly.

 

Here's my assessment:

 

Contreras-No drop of here. He's having a great year.

 

Buehrle-He claimes he's 100% but he's not locating his pitches. He's gone through periods like this before in his career but I don't recall him getting lit up like this 3 starts in a row. Anyone else recall such a bad stretch from him?

 

Garcia-I think the WBC is a joke and Garcia is a case in point. Besides the playoffs last year he had to take an early spring training to pitch in the WBC. It's no surprise his velocity is down. IMHO, he's hurt. I don't know that for a fact but can someone else here explain why his velocity left him the entire first half?

 

Garland-Started slow by has been solid lately. If the playoffs started today, I'd make him my #2 starter behind Contreras.

 

Vazquez-This guy is like Contreras in 2004. He has the talent to be a really good pitcher, but he's pitching as mediocre as he always is. I can't believe some team (was it the Yanks) gave him such a huge contract.

 

 

 

Bob

[beck72]

Here's my assessment:

Nothing personal, but I'd like to hear Coop and KW's assessments more.

[Frankensteiner]

I've heard that before but I didn't expect them to get this bad. What it comes down to is that these guys made an extra 3 starts last year. And actually that's not accurate as I believe Garland only made 2 and Contreras made 4, assuming I remember correctly.

 

Here's my assessment:

 

Contreras-No drop of here. He's having a great year.

 

Buehrle-He claimes he's 100% but he's not locating his pitches. He's gone through periods like this before in his career but I don't recall him getting lit up like this 3 starts in a row. Anyone else recall such a bad stretch from him?

 

Garcia-I think the WBC is a joke and Garcia is a case in point. Besides the playoffs last year he had to take an early spring training to pitch in the WBC. It's no surprise his velocity is down. IMHO, he's hurt. I don't know that for a fact but can someone else here explain why his velocity left him the entire first half?

 

Garland-Started slow by has been solid lately. If the playoffs started today, I'd make him my #2 starter behind Contreras.

 

Vazquez-This guy is like Contreras in 2004. He has the talent to be a really good pitcher, but he's pitching as mediocre as he always is. I can't believe some team (was it the Yanks) gave him such a huge contract.

Bob

 

Buehrle will get better, just has to locate. As long as he's not injured, which he says is not the case, I expect him to get better. Garcia is either injured or off 'roids which is why you see the drop off in velocity. Regardless, we can't count on him to be a good pitcher for us anymore.

 

Garland looks to be improving from his early season slump but it still remains to be seen whether or not he's the pitcher from last year or the guy he's been over most of his career. Vazquez is as inconsistant as he has been with the Yankees and D'Backs. Expecting him to actually be an effective starter at some point is putting a lot of faith in the White Sox and Cooper.

 

So in summary, we've got 2 guys (Count, Buehrle) who will be fairly solid for the rest of the year. Then we need Garland to pitch like he did last year to stay in the race. Given his career and season numbers, I'm not sure if that's a reasonable expectation. Garcia looks done and Vazquez has just been bad the last 2 years. I don't see where this staff will just automatically rebound or improve. Buehrle will, but that's not enough.

 

Meanwhile, we've got an offense with our best hitters (Konerko, Dye, Crede) producing career seasons. It's a little scarry to think what this team will look like if those guys return to their career norms in the 2nd half. This is why I believe we need to add another great player: starting pitcher is the first priority, but an All-Star SS or CF would ensure our offense keeps producing at a similar pace if some of our guys fall off.

[Dick Allen]

I think the problem is the pitchers are being compared to last year, and to last year's playoff run when, in both instances they pitched way better than can be reasonable expected again, at least for an entire season. Buerhle, even with his last 3 bombings, has numbers pretty close to what you could reasonable expect. Garland was a journeyman basically until last year. Freddy was good and bad at Seattle, so its not shocking to see him with an ERA over 4. Contreras has been solid, better than could be expected, and Vazquez has been mediocre for the vast majority of his career. Expections of the pitching staff were way too high. Unreasonably high. The greatest 5 man rotation in history? Please. Its a good thing the offense improved this year. With last years offense and this year's pitching, the Sox probably would be looking at dueling it out with Cleveland for 3rd place.