KW to be on AM 1000 at 9:40

[Balta1701]

Spot on. Josh is a 'project' who may turn out to be very good but at this stage would be learning his trade at the MLB level. That might be acceptable for a team in rebuilding mode, trying to get to .500, but I think the White Sox have a chance to get back to the Series next year and have to put more weight on immediate results. How the White Sox handle this matter will be telling.

On any of these topics though...there are 2 issues. One is the net immediate loss from going from one of, if not the best third baseman in baseball to a rookie. The other side though is the net gain we we would get by trading away the best third baseman in baseball while his value is still potentially through the roof, thus getting ourselves new players and saving money.

 

You do not have to be in rebuilding mode to trade away a veteran player, insert a rookie, and have your team get better. Just as a hypothetical example...pick the one guy in baseball you think would help us the most. Don't care who or what position. Throw in a Crawford, or an Ichiro, or a Verlander, or whoever it is you would love to have on your team. If you could get that guy...but it cost you Joe Crede to do it...that is the evaluation you have to make. Would going from Podsednik to Crawford counteract the loss from Crede to Fields? It may very well do so. Or if you add in a pitcher. Etc.

 

You can win with all of Fields, Anderson, and Sweeney in your lineup next year if you have to. But that can only happen if you are smart about what you do with the pieces you do have. If you turn the guys you remove into exceptionally valuable pieces...you can get better the next year.

 

There is virtually no one on the White Sox who is totally untouchable if the right offer were made. But you can not just sell a guy like Crede for nothing...you have to get back something valuable enough to offset the loss of him if you want to remain competitive next year.

[The Ginger Kid]

Will QuesTec be at the cell next year or was it a one year thing?

[3 BeWareTheNewSox 5]

Statistically, he might have been the worst reliever in baseball. McCarthy also was not as effective as most thought, and that falls on Mac IMO.

I think Kenny made a mistake with the pen in 06, and Williams has seemed to gain more and more knowledge and smarts while on the job, and I expect him to make the pen a top priority.

 

"that falls on Mac IMO", not my opinion. For me, that is the equivalent of having frustration on Mackowiak's defense falling on Mackowiak instead of Ozzie who put him out there. With one trade, KW hurt both the bullpen and the rotation. Trading for a #5 starter when we had one, a prospect that was actually panning out (helped save the season, shut down top offenses on the road), tried to fix it when it wasn't broken. Viz was solid too. El Duque would have been a nice long guy and if he didn't like it, bye bye. KW made and has made great moves,but I would have to say thumbs down on that one

 

 

This is not factoring in the prospect we gave up btw

[TLAK]

On any of these topics though...there are 2 issues. One is the net immediate loss from going from one of, if not the best third baseman in baseball to a rookie. The other side though is the net gain we we would get by trading away the best third baseman in baseball while his value is still potentially through the roof, thus getting ourselves new players and saving money.

 

You do not have to be in rebuilding mode to trade away a veteran player, insert a rookie, and have your team get better. Just as a hypothetical example...pick the one guy in baseball you think would help us the most. Don't care who or what position. Throw in a Crawford, or an Ichiro, or a Verlander, or whoever it is you would love to have on your team. If you could get that guy...but it cost you Joe Crede to do it...that is the evaluation you have to make. Would going from Podsednik to Crawford counteract the loss from Crede to Fields? It may very well do so. Or if you add in a pitcher. Etc.

 

You can win with all of Fields, Anderson, and Sweeney in your lineup next year if you have to. But that can only happen if you are smart about what you do with the pieces you do have. If you turn the guys you remove into exceptionally valuable pieces...you can get better the next year.

 

There is virtually no one on the White Sox who is totally untouchable if the right offer were made. But you can not just sell a guy like Crede for nothing...you have to get back something valuable enough to offset the loss of him if you want to remain competitive next year.

I bolded the line that caught my eye. Sweeney has played in 15 MLB games, Fields in 6. Over the last 50 years there have been exactly 12 players who appeared in more than half of a World Series Champions games, that had equal or less experience than Ryan Sweeney.

 

 

There are some pretty special names here. I like Fields and Sweeney but the odds of winning with even one rookie as a major contributor, let alone two are slim. It is so hard to win a Championship, you need guys who already know how to play. There just aren't any games to give away due to on the job training.

[fathom]

Since no one asked for my opinion, here's what I think after hearing that interview: there's just as good of a chance as re-signing Crede today as there was yesterday. KW uses the media to send messages to people. I'm not ready to scratch Crede off my 2007 White Sox depth chart.

[Shamrock4Life]

why can i never read page 1 after the thread goes multipage???

 

and yeah lets not trade crede.

[Mr. Showtime]

Kenny did leave the bullpen with a void coming into 2006, but I have a hard time placing all the blame on him.

 

Cotts was garbage. Cliff was due to come back to earth, but NO one could have predicted how bad he actually was in 06. Statistically, he might have been the worst reliever in baseball. McCarthy also was not as effective as most thought, and that falls on Mac IMO.

I think Kenny made a mistake with the pen in 06, and Williams has seemed to gain more and more knowledge and smarts while on the job, and I expect him to make the pen a top priority.

 

Cliff was hurt, doesn't matter now though.

[RockRaines]

I have said it a million times. Crede how now entered into elite status for his position. If we trade him, we also need an elite player in that position or a few cant miss younger players. If that is not available, then we dont trade him at all.

 

IMO if we trade Crede, it should be for a top of the rotation starter, a serious ACE. If that is not involved, its going to take a little to get my attention. Reason being: We have Crede for another year most likely, we work out a deal or we trade him at the deadline for whatever piece we need and hopefully can use Fields as the replacement by then.

[greg775]

I simply love Joe, but I have no problem saying bye bye if it's because of

Boras.

If Joe wants to go do the Yankee/Met/Red Sox thing, go for it, Joe.

You'll be missed, but I can understand if KW can't deal with Joe's agent.

Many of the small market teams don't bother, either with Boras.

Bye Joe, you were a stud while it lasted.

[DBAHO]

Right now if you were offered Howie Kendrick, Ervin Santana and a prospect for Joe Crede, would you do that deal?

 

Kendrick becomes your utility man, and would replace Iguchi in 2008. I don't buy the Santana is average talk. Yes his away splits aren't good. But this is his 1st full season in the majors, and that 4.28 ERA he put up this season would put him in the upper echelon of our starters for this season.

 

And he's got pretty damn good stuff too, so that would please the people on here who are calling for us to have starting pitchers with more velocity over control.

 

If he's more consistent, he'll take a big step forward. And I think he could do that next season.

 

As for Joe, yeah he's one of my favorite players. But the Sox brass have to realize if he's not going to sign long - term and he's going to test the market, then his value will never be higher than what it is now. You've got Fields waiting in the wings, so I think it makes sense if you get a real good offer, you move Joe.

[RockRaines]

Right now if you were offered Howie Kendrick, Ervin Santana and a prospect for Joe Crede, would you do that deal?

 

Kendrick becomes your utility man, and would replace Iguchi in 2008. I don't buy the Santana is average talk. Yes his away splits aren't good. But this is his 1st full season in the majors, and that 4.28 ERA he put up this season would put him in the upper echelon of our starters for this season.

 

And he's got pretty damn good stuff too, so that would please the people on here who are calling for us to have starting pitchers with more velocity over control.

 

If he's more consistent, he'll take a big step forward. And I think he could do that next season.

 

As for Joe, yeah he's one of my favorite players. But the Sox brass have to realize if he's not going to sign long - term and he's going to test the market, then his value will never be higher than what it is now. You've got Fields waiting in the wings, so I think it makes sense if you get a real good offer, you move Joe.

I think you make that deal considering you get two young cheap good players and possibly another for a player who might not stay with us.

[GreatScott82]

Is Fields really that solid defensivley to replace agruably the best defensive 3B in baseball? Fields can hit, but is he clutch like Crede? If this team can shore up the bullpen or possibly get an insurance spot starter/reliever (El-duque of '05) in return for Crede than i might consider it. However, i dont see Crede going anywhere. Unless its part of a Tampa package for Crawford

[Balta1701]

Is Fields really that solid defensivley to replace agruably the best defensive 3B in baseball? Fields can hit, but is he clutch like Crede? If this team can shore up the bullpen or possibly get an insurance spot starter/reliever (El-duque of '05) in return for Crede than i might consider it. However, i dont see Crede going anywhere. Unless its part of a Tampa package for Crawford

No, Fields is not nearly as good as Crede at 3rd base. In other words...you have to get enough back for Crede to make up for that loss somewhere else on the field. You need a ton more than bullpen help and a spot starter for Joe Crede.

[GreatScott82]

Right now if you were offered Howie Kendrick, Ervin Santana and a prospect for Joe Crede, would you do that deal?

Kendrick becomes your utility man, and would replace Iguchi in 2008. I don't buy the Santana is average talk. Yes his away splits aren't good. But this is his 1st full season in the majors, and that 4.28 ERA he put up this season would put him in the upper echelon of our starters for this season.

 

And he's got pretty damn good stuff too, so that would please the people on here who are calling for us to have starting pitchers with more velocity over control.

 

If he's more consistent, he'll take a big step forward. And I think he could do that next season.

 

As for Joe, yeah he's one of my favorite players. But the Sox brass have to realize if he's not going to sign long - term and he's going to test the market, then his value will never be higher than what it is now. You've got Fields waiting in the wings, so I think it makes sense if you get a real good offer, you move Joe.

Yea i would consider making that move. We can then trade Santana and Owens to Tampa for Crawford.

[Balta1701]

Right now if you were offered Howie Kendrick, Ervin Santana and a prospect for Joe Crede, would you do that deal?

Yes, I do that deal. I probably don't even need the prospect. I then turn around and try to deal Santana + someone (maybe even Iguchi) to Tampa for Crawford.

[kwolf68]

Fields isn't in Crede's class, not even close. Fields is a good kid, who does work hard and I don't doubt he'll be talented, but if we put Fields at 3rd next year it is probably Brian Anderson all over again just with not as good defense.

 

Crede must stay in Chicago unless a contigency for Fields is brought in. And the price for Crede should be a king's ransom...you don't find guys who can pick it like him everyday.

[cuddlyboy26]

The White Sox seem anxious to get Fields up to replace Crede however considering Fields is not in Crede's class.

[Leonard Zelig]

The White Sox seem anxious to get Fields up to replace Crede however considering Fields is not in Crede's class.

 

Well, supposedly, Fields is going to be playing outfield in winter ball this year.

[kwolf68]

How many are in Crede's class? Not many...

 

 

Not many. Very few. In fact, who is? A-Rod sure, but Crede has him in defense? Chavez, but Crede has him with the bat. Dealing Crede would be a horrible move unless we got like a blow-away offer

Edited October 4, 2006 by kwolf68

[DBAHO]

Yes, I do that deal. I probably don't even need the prospect. I then turn around and try to deal Santana + someone (maybe even Iguchi) to Tampa for Crawford.

I'm going to throw another curveball here.

 

Would you rather trade say Contreras instead for a Danks and another pitching spect or someone like Arias, and then trade Danks instead of Santana in the deal?

 

Personally if there was a way to hang onto Santana without giving up B-Mac, considering his stuff/age/contract etc. I'd like to do that.

 

So you end up with Crawford, Kendrick and Santana, while giving up Crede and Contreras (and possibly prospects)?

[jackie hayes]

Not many. Very few. In fact, who is? A-Rod sure, but Crede has him in defense? Chavez, but Crede has him with the bat. Dealing Crede would be a horrible move unless we got like a blow-away offer

And David Wright doesn't have his winning smile.

 

Crede's my favorite Sox player, and he's a very good player, but let's not get carried away. Unless Chavez's forearm problem lingers for years, his bat is better than Crede's. Even if some of the power just leaks away (which I don't see), he's a big on-base guy. And ARod is one of the best players of this era. Crede is not that calibre player, nor very close. Rodriguez, Chavez, Atkins, Wright, Zimmerman, Teahen, Cabrera, Ramirez, Rolen (when healthy), and Chipper (ditto) are all at least as valuable as Crede. I don't want to see him traded, I hope a deal can be worked out, but if it doesn't happen and we get a good package of young players in return (hopefully, and, I think, realistically, 2) -- we can still produce a WS-capable team.

[fathom]

The Angels aren't going to give up Santana and Kendrick for Crede. I don't even think they'd give up either of those guys for Crede. The Angels can just use their money and make a big offer for Aramis if they want.

[DBAHO]

The Angels aren't going to give up Santana and Kendrick for Crede. I don't even think they'd give up either of those guys for Crede. The Angels can just use their money and make a big offer for Aramis if they want.

But then again they could miss out on Ramirez to a team like the Astros, or he could re-sign with the Cubs, which puts them back to square one.

 

They could trade for Manny Ramirez, but that's a big contract to take on, plus the talent you'd have to give up.

 

They'll go for Tejada again, but I can't imagine the O's trading him now.

 

So they're essentially back to square one in that scenario. If they would offer Santana, Aybar and Kotchman or Adenhart for Tejada, then maybe a Kendrick and Santana deal for Crede is possible. We may have to give up a prospect on our end possibly I don't know. But it's definitely something, if KW is offered, he should certainly consider.

[sircaffey]

But then again they could miss out on Ramirez to a team like the Astros, or he could re-sign with the Cubs, which puts them back to square one.

 

They could trade for Manny Ramirez, but that's a big contract to take on, plus the talent you'd have to give up.

 

They'll go for Tejada again, but I can't imagine the O's trading him now.

 

So they're essentially back to square one in that scenario. If they would offer Santana, Aybar and Kotchman or Adenhart for Tejada, then maybe a Kendrick and Santana deal for Crede is possible. We may have to give up a prospect on our end possibly I don't know. But it's definitely something, if KW is offered, he should certainly consider.

Personally, I think the Angels would be crazy to give up both of them for Crede. I doubt they give up Kendrick.

[GoodAsGould]

I'm going to throw another curveball here.

 

Would you rather trade say Contreras instead for a Danks and another pitching spect or someone like Arias, and then trade Danks instead of Santana in the deal?

 

Personally if there was a way to hang onto Santana without giving up B-Mac, considering his stuff/age/contract etc. I'd like to do that.

 

So you end up with Crawford, Kendrick and Santana, while giving up Crede and Contreras (and possibly prospects)?

 

Or maybe we keep the core of this team but just reload it with young guys. Trade Crede for Santana and maybe a mid tier prospect. Use Contreras to acquire Danks and prob another mid tier prospect from them as well. Than insert both of those in the starting rotation as well as B-Mac. That gives you flexibility to trade away Freddy and one more of the remaining 3(Buehrle, Garland, Vazquez) and we could prob throw Uribe in the mix and acquire Rollins from the Phills and than sign maybe Dave Roberts or if Ozzie has his way Juan Pierre. Or they could use the other starter not acquired in the Rollins deal and send him in a package to Boston for Coco Crisp and ???

 

We shed a lot of payroll this way, Im sure even though they are young that Santana and B-Mac can put up quality starts for us. Danks has succeeded at every lvl, usually he struggles for a little and than dominates and would be our 5th starter. We would still have 2 veterans on the staff as well.

 

On offense we reload the top of the order with Crisp/Rollins, this allows us to move Iguchi down which maybe help offsets the loss of Crede in the lineup. Also we put Fields at 3B and im thinking atleast 1 of him or Anderson can produce enough that we just dont have 2 holes in our lineup.

 

LF:Crisp

SS:Rollins

RF:Dye

DH:Thome

1B:Konerko

C:Pieryznski

2B:Iguchi

3B:Fields

CF:Anderson

 

we should be able to run a lot more on the top of the order with that lineup as well so keeps Ozzie happy. Than the 2 vet SP's we keep and our joined by young guys in B-Mac, Santana, and Danks. With this we will have plenty of money to resign Buehrle if we choose to keep him and plenty of money to sign an impact f/a if thats what they want to do.