Disturbing article about the Sox's plans

[Balta1701]

Is it just me or does this seem like a bad thing from a business stand point? I mean to us, if we were to pull a Marlins restocking method then we need to do it soon.

 

But you also have to remember the casual baseball fans and the people who have been selling out the cell the past few seasons. How are they going to view this after winning a WS now go to rebuilding?

You don't have to do a 100% rebuilding job like the Marlins in order to be competitive every year. We still have a $90 million salary with a lot of flexibility. We still have Jim Thome, Paul Konerko, and Jermaine Dye sitting there.

 

If you want to be competitive every year, this is exactly the philosophy you should take. Squeeze as much as humanly possible out of people, but then don't let them hit Free Agency, because you can get a lot more for people than a pair of draft picks.

 

Before today, in 2009, our starting pitching rotation was looking to be Contreras, McCarthy, Haeger, Broadway, and Phillips. Now we have Floyd and Gio to add to that mix as possibles, and we have a lot more salary freedom to hold onto one or two of the other guys if we want, and we can turn some of those other guys into other useful pieces.

[hitlesswonder]

Which is better...having 4 guys at 4 and 1 at 7, or 4 guys at 5 and 1 at 4?

 

Who are the 4 guys at 4? If the Sox punt on a 5th starter this year and use Floyd, it really weakens them in comparison with Detroit and MN. The Sox top of the rotation isn't as good as either of those teams. The Sox big advantage was that any pithcer of the starting 5 was good enough to win a game. An almost certain loss every 5th game is not good.

 

Anyway, who knows if they'll trade Buehrle, they may not. And also, I think Haegar could post much better than a 7 ERA, so I probably shouldn't have lumped him in with Floyd.

[Rowand44]

Calm down people. An article isn't going to destroy our team.

[Flash Tizzle]

Is it just me or does this seem like a bad thing from a business stand point? I mean to us, if we were to pull a Marlins restocking method then we need to do it soon.

Don't even suggest we're pulling a Marlins........

 

Atleast they're capable of receiving legitimate prospects for departed players.

 

My belief is if you're going to attempt and restock your minor league system, the aim has to be a bit beyond Floyd and Gonzalez.

[3 BeWareTheNewSox 5]

And yet, we are STILL basing Floyds numbers on half a season with Philly, as a 23 year old, with 108 IP career in the majors....Awesome foresight!!

 

Not about his numbers, more about him being their version of Borchard.

[SinkingShip06]

HOLY f*** IT SOUNDS LIKE A FIRESALE

[BigHurtHallofFame201?]

This would definitely be Kenny's most elaborate pre-blockbuster lie. That'd be nice.

[witesoxfan]

Not about his numbers, more about him being their version of Borchard.

 

In that case, maybe he can play CF...?

 

Perhaps he is their version of Matt Thornton too. You know, it's possible.

[DBAHO]

Kenny Williams has found out the value of good young pitching.

 

If he can get a Mike Pelfrey or Eric Hurley / John Danks in some sort of deal for one of our SP's, I would be inclined to do that.

 

You can always sign a SP like Miggy Batista on a short term deal on an inflated salary, to help fill the void until the spects are ready.

[witesoxfan]

Kenny Williams has found out the value of good young pitching.

 

If he can get a Mike Pelfrey or Eric Hurley / John Danks in some sort of deal for one of our SP's, I would be inclined to do that.

 

You can always sign a SP like Miggy Batista on a short term deal on an inflated salary, to help fill the void until the spects are ready.

 

You can plug Haeger, Phillips, and Floyd in there too, suffer through half a run more of ERA, and save $8 million.

[RockRaines]

Everyone who was clamoring for nothing but prospects should be happy with this. I, for one, who think spects are overrated, am not happy

[RME JICO]

Everyone who was clamoring for nothing but prospects should be happy with this. I, for one, who think spects are overrated, am not happy

The media is now talking about how the Phils now have the market for SPs and will dangle Lieber for middle-to-back end relief, etc. So we will see what they end up with for Lieber who is a notch down from Garcia. If they get more value for him, KW made a rash decision here.

 

Also, KW mentioned that he was not going to talk about extensions for one of his SPs. Can it be assumed that this is Mark and we will see an extension shortly?

[Want2Repeat]

''We are continuing on the mission of looking for targeted players that we believe to be type-1, type-2 guys in your rotation, while staying competitive.''

 

Quote from KW. "Competitive"???? that is all we want now?? In being such a big Sox fan, I am just sick to my stomach. This trade was awful. Kenny has made about 4 good trades in his tenure. The rest were just terrible. There is no way that we couldn't have gotten more for Garcia, no way. Terrible, terrible, terrible. And now we will look to deal more starters? We won't re-sign anyone? Great. Yeah, its not about money at all. Reinsdorf gets his WS, gets attendance way up and now is looking to pocket the money in my view. The rest is just all talk, like it has been in the past. Get rumoured in every deal, so that way it looks like we are trying to do something big.

 

I hope I am wrong.

Edited December 7, 2006 by Want2Repeat

[chisoxt]

Kenny was always an aggressive GM in pusuing guys to 'put us over the top'. Now, we may be seeing agressiveness in the 'rebuilding' direction.

[DBAHO]

I'm going to put the Sox's new direction in a positive frame of mind for a minute;

 

If they can develop good young pitching, and say pay less than $20M for 5 quality starters (say have 3 in their 1st or 2nd seasons at the major league level) and the others are arbitration eligible, that leaves about $100M to help fill the lineup and bullpen.

 

KW and JR have shown that they'll take care of the guys who produce in the lineup. I'm wondering with Jermaine Dye's contract finishing up, if the Sox are going to make it more of a priority to re-sign him over a Mark Buehrle for example?

 

Kenny was always an aggressive GM in pusuing guys to 'put us over the top'. Now, we may be seeing agressiveness in the 'rebuilding' direction.

It's funny, for 5 years we've been jealous of the Minnesota Twins, with how they develop their young players.

 

Now it sounds like the Sox kind of want to go in that direction a bit, and people here think it's a horrible way to go.

 

But the Twins have shown you can certainly be successful doing it, you just have to do it right.

[mmmmmbeeer]

I like the approach, honestly. No pitcher in our rotation would qualify, IMO, as a absolute keeper, in the molds of a Santana, Peavy, Bonderman, Verlander, etc. Because of this, there's nothing wrong with refusing to pay big money to retain our staff.

 

With that said, if this is going to be our new mission and mantra, JR and KW had better find a way to start working with Scott Boras and/or get over the Borchard deal and not hesitate to offer big money to top picks. As Flash loves to point out, we need to do a better job of drafting power pitchers. If we're building with youth in the staff, we need to have a variety of styles of pitchers to choose from, not just a bunch of MBs.

 

I don't know if Kenny is the guy to head up this kind of effort. He and his staff seem more adept at picking vets to complement a team than he does choosing young impact prospects. This is the kind of project that you can't really afford many mistakes. One miscalculation can blow an entire season if you're left with a hole or two in your rotation. This is the part of this that makes me think it's way too early to start "rebuilding" after our championship and such a strong core still in place.

[BamaDoc]

Deep breath and relax. This is the winter meetings and a lot of what is said is posturing. It may help in negotiating an extension with a starter. Remember last spring when either Garland or Contreras was a goner?

 

Secondly, the free agent market for mediocre pitching has gone nuts. The more stupid contracts given to 4-5 starters actually drives down the value you get for a player who is about to enter free agency as very few teams can now afford to rent a player while giving up cheap talent. What do you think Garcia would ask for on the open market if a free agent today. Worse pitchers are getting 10+ million for 4-5 years. So will you give Freddy a 12-14 million 4-5 year deal after what we saw last summer. (This is not a slam on Freddy but on the market).

 

This team has never wanted to go beyond three years with a pitcher. We have lost some good ones due to that stance but almost all proved to be hurt/ineffective/overpriced by the end of their deals. With a staff ERA going up a run, who would you break this policy for? Contreras has age and health questions. Buerhle is the right age but if last year wasn't a fluke a five year deal could be a disaster. Vasquez you still control for two years. Garland makes the most sense, not as the best ace but from durability,age, and health standpoint.

 

Last,(sorry for the length) I would have liked better or more prospects but Kenny apparently actively explored those options. This is his job and this was apparently the best our staff felt we could do.

[SoxFan562004]

Break an attendance record.... rebuild!?

That would be a MAJOR problem for me. I'm not saying they have to run out and mimic the Cubs and throw a ridiculous amount of money at Soriano and Lily types, but if they are saving 10m, and don't improve CF/LF it would blow my mind. If he would have traded FG, then signed Dave Roberts to a similar deal he got, that would make sense. In my opinion this team needs upgrades, and bringing back the same team minus FG after the attendance last year would upset me as a Sox fan

[klaus kinski]

1. I like the move

 

2. Be aware that the Reinsdorf retirement nest egg is being laid

[soxpride77]

I'm going to put the Sox's new direction in a positive frame of mind for a minute;

 

If they can develop good young pitching, and say pay less than $20M for 5 quality starters (say have 3 in their 1st or 2nd seasons at the major league level) and the others are arbitration eligible, that leaves about $100M to help fill the lineup and bullpen.

 

KW and JR have shown that they'll take care of the guys who produce in the lineup. I'm wondering with Jermaine Dye's contract finishing up, if the Sox are going to make it more of a priority to re-sign him over a Mark Buehrle for example?

It's funny, for 5 years we've been jealous of the Minnesota Twins, with how they develop their young players.

 

Now it sounds like the Sox kind of want to go in that direction a bit, and people here think it's a horrible way to go.

 

But the Twins have shown you can certainly be successful doing it, you just have to do it right.

 

This is exactly what I was thinking, why not be a club like the Twins and A's? Develop your starting pitching in the minors, and then as soon as they get good and warrant a big contract, trade them away to restock the minors with quality young pitchers.

[spiderman]

I'm disgusted with what I'm hearing from the White Sox - yes, they are getting back two players from the Phillies who supposedly have high upside, and the Sox believe that they can be top of the line starters, but they don't seem to be interested at all in paying their pitchers, which Williams has been quoted as saying over and over is the reason they won the WS in '05. I want to win again next season, and if they trade Buerhle, which looks like a real possibility, they won't win with Gavin Floyd/Brandon McCarthy in the rotation in a league where you may have to win 95 games. With all the revenue pouring in, they can't get Burehle locked up on a 3 year, 36 million dollar deal that would put him just below a Chris Carpetner in terms of $/year ????

 

I'll say this for the Cubs - I'm not sure they're spending the money they have smartly, but at least they realize that you to spend money to get free agents/improve the club/keep it together (A.Ramirez).

 

It seems though that we have decided to take a step back in order to get more young pitching - not a bad strategy if you could guarantee the young pitching would develop, but, as we know, can't do that.

[YASNY]

I'm disgusted with what I'm hearing from the White Sox - yes, they are getting back two players from the Phillies who supposedly have high upside, and the Sox believe that they can be top of the line starters, but they don't seem to be interested at all in paying their pitchers, which Williams has been quoted as saying over and over is the reason they won the WS in '05. I want to win again next season, and if they trade Buerhle, which looks like a real possibility, they won't win with Gavin Floyd/Brandon McCarthy in the rotation in a league where you may have to win 95 games. With all the revenue pouring in, they can't get Burehle locked up on a 3 year, 36 million dollar deal that would put him just below a Chris Carpetner in terms of $/year ????

 

I'll say this for the Cubs - I'm not sure they're spending the money they have smartly, but at least they realize that you to spend money to get free agents/improve the club/keep it together (A.Ramirez).

 

It seems though that we have decided to take a step back in order to get more young pitching - not a bad strategy if you could guarantee the young pitching would develop, but, as we know, can't do that.

 

On the open market, Buehrle will come in at just under Zito numbers. 3 years and $36M won't even come close. That's the market today ... which is why KW did what he did and why he may trade Mark.

[Baines3]

I can understand KW going for youth, but he is taking a major gamble. I certainly hope that Kenny doesn't trade any more pitchers but it wouldn't surprise me as I have seen them do it before.

 

We can't believe everything we read, I certainly hope that guy doesn't know what he is talking about.

[daa84]

hes using the braves as a model.....hes been sayin it for years

[spiderman]

On the open market, Buehrle will come in at just under Zito numbers. 3 years and $36M won't even come close. That's the market today ... which is why KW did what he did and why he may trade Mark.

 

On the open market, provided Buerhle has a good year, you are correct.

 

However, given that the White Sox prefer to sign their players before then, and their pitchers, to 3 year deals of late, I don't think $12 million a year, or maybe something starting at $12 milliion would be totally ridiculous - espeically if Buerhle wanted to stay here. I said 3 years, 36 million, maybe 3 years 40 million gets done.

 

Probably won't matter though as Williams is saying no more extensions.