fathom Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...-home-headlines This was the most predictable feud ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Showtime Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 24, 2007 -> 12:00 AM) http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...-home-headlines This was the most predictable feud ever. I don't care. The whole organization blows at developing players. Fathom, I've gotta ask you this. Could you have imagined a month ago us sitting here one week from the deadline and looking at the realistic possibility that the Sox make zero deals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Lopez's Ghost Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 I didn't see this anywhere else, so I thought it might be interesting. To me, Shaffer got fired, and is firing back. Me, I'm glad he's gone. http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/wh...soxnt24.article Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AirScott Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 Don't worry, Joe Cowley fires the first shot... After being fired as director of amateur scouting last month, Duane Shaffer left the post much like most of his drafts -- quiet and very unassuming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilMonkey Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 It did sound alot like sour grapes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 LOL, I love the poll on this page asking where you think the Sox will finish up this year in the Central. Its your call! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klaus kinski Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 He has an opinion that must be respected. He's been there, worked with, and for those in question. The bloom is off Williams, folks. Do something good for the team, if you can. Or admit you have to rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AirScott Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 QUOTE(Mr. Showtime @ Jul 24, 2007 -> 12:07 AM) I don't care. The whole organization blows at developing players. Fathom, I've gotta ask you this. Could you have imagined a month ago us sitting here one week from the deadline and looking at the realistic possibility that the Sox make zero deals? The Sox can't make zero deals. It will just take until the deadline because the key trading pieces aren't playing well, so their value isn't high, making the offers are sub-par. A deal might have been made already if Contreras was still throwing 94 mph, Dye was hitting .300 (or at least .270!) or if Iguchi was putting up his usual numbers. It's a little different trying to make trades when you're also trying to convince other GMs that these guys didn't age like sour milk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 Surprise, surprise.. another Sox employee who has/had issue with Kenny. It's to bad that Kenny is able to continue to hide behind doors about this stuff. Personally, I can't wait till he is canned and all the real dirt is shaken out of the executive rugs. Kudos to Duane for comparing Kenny to Larry Himes. I'm sure Kenny flipped a few tables after reading that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
29andPoplar Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 Duane Shaffer airing dirty laundry ... great ... here is a guy who has had mediocre results for a long time and yet had a well paying job for 35 years with one employer. Not to mention having his overmatched son playing pro ball in the White Sox organization for a few years as a favor. Maybe he can look up Jason Dellaero and Jason Stumm, find out where they're working these days and get a hook up. It will be interesting to see where he lands. I doubt it's as an amateur scouting director. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 If anyone doesn't think KW is/was using DS as a scapegoat for this pitiful season, you're fooling yourselves. I'm sure there's some sour grapes as far as DS is concerned, but for KW to laugh about him, when he put together a team in last place with a $100 million + payroll, shows just how smug KW is. He should be worried about the mess he has created, yet he's so comfortable with his "genius" that he laughs at 35 year employees who are out of jobs. I believe in the end you get what's coming to you, and eventually KW will be humbled. It will take a lot because obviously this season has done nothing to shrink his huge head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jul 24, 2007 -> 07:43 AM) If anyone doesn't think KW is/was using DS as a scapegoat for this pitiful season, you're fooling yourselves. I'm sure there's some sour grapes as far as DS is concerned, but for KW to laugh about him, when he put together a team in last place with a $100 million + payroll, shows just how smug KW is. He should be worried about the mess he has created, yet he's so comfortable with his "genius" that he laughs at 35 year employees who are out of jobs. I believe in the end you get what's coming to you, and eventually KW will be humbled. It will take a lot because obviously this season has done nothing to shrink his huge head. Oh it's not at all surprising. 2 weeks ago Kenny was a mf'er and this was all his fault. The wind will change direction again soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 24, 2007 Author Share Posted July 24, 2007 QUOTE(Mr. Showtime @ Jul 24, 2007 -> 05:07 AM) I don't care. The whole organization blows at developing players. Fathom, I've gotta ask you this. Could you have imagined a month ago us sitting here one week from the deadline and looking at the realistic possibility that the Sox make zero deals? There's still a lot of time for trades to be made. The ironic thing is that Iguchi is the one guy we need to trade the most, as we won't get any compensation if he leaves after this year. With the way this baseball year has been going, I'm a little scared to see what we'll actually get back in a trade. I could see the Sox trading Garland/Thornton for Cabrera and Ian Kennedy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 The whole scouting department sucks. I just hate the fact that the org replaced him with someone they fired before and has had worse drafts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitlesswonder Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 (edited) QUOTE(Steff @ Jul 24, 2007 -> 08:25 AM) Surprise, surprise.. another Sox employee who has/had issue with Kenny. It's to bad that Kenny is able to continue to hide behind doors about this stuff. Personally, I can't wait till he is canned and all the real dirt is shaken out of the executive rugs. Kudos to Duane for comparing Kenny to Larry Himes. I'm sure Kenny flipped a few tables after reading that one. I would choose Larry Himes over KW as a GM and it's not particularly close. I remember reading that Himes lacked "people skills" but he was the best talent evaluator (or at least hired best talent evaluators) of any Sox GM that I've seen. Speaking of which, Shaffer was the guy that scouted Jack McDowell IIRC. So, I gather the consensus among those that know the Sox organization is that Williams is a jackass that needs to be canned? If it mean Hahn gets to be GM, I'm OK with that... Edited July 24, 2007 by hitlesswonder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitlesswonder Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 QUOTE(BearSox @ Jul 24, 2007 -> 09:53 AM) The whole scouting department sucks. I just hate the fact that the org replaced him with someone they fired before and has had worse drafts! Agreed. Laumann's drafts were worse than Shaffer's. Picking him to head up the "new direction" makes it pretty clear that performance wasn't the issue. Shaffer was replaced because he and KW didn't get along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Jul 24, 2007 -> 08:55 AM) I would choose Larry Himes over KW as a GM and it's not particularly close. I remember reading that Himes lacked "people skills" but he was the best talent evaluator (or at least hired best talent evaluators) of any Sox GM that I've seen. Speaking of which, Shaffer was the guy that scouted Jack McDowell IIRC. So, I gather the consensus among those that know the Sox organization is that Williams is a jackass that needs to be canned? If it mean Hahn gets to be GM, I'm OK with that... Kenny hates - and that's putting it nicely - Himes. One positive about all this is that Kenny kept his mouth and didn't erupt in the media. Rick has been the dream GM for many for years. I'm fine with that also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitlesswonder Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 QUOTE(Steff @ Jul 24, 2007 -> 10:00 AM) One positive about all this is that Kenny kept his mouth and didn't erupt in the media. I noticed that as well. Aside from the "chuckling" remark, his response quoted in the trib was very professional. That was refreshing to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RibbieRubarb Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 QUOTE(Steff @ Jul 24, 2007 -> 10:00 AM) Kenny hates - and that's putting it nicely - Himes. One positive about all this is that Kenny kept his mouth and didn't erupt in the media. Rick has been the dream GM for many for years. I'm fine with that also. So is Dave Wilder. Many teams have been asking to talk to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Jul 24, 2007 -> 09:03 AM) I noticed that as well. Aside from the "chuckling" remark, his response quoted in the trib was very professional. That was refreshing to see. After only 3 years of hounding him to keep his yap shut he's finally getting it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RibbieRubarb Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 QUOTE(Steff @ Jul 24, 2007 -> 10:09 AM) After only 3 years of hounding him to keep his yap shut he's finally getting it.. I'm waiting for E! to do a True Hollywood Story on the White Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 This organization...ugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Jul 24, 2007 -> 09:55 AM) Speaking of which, Shaffer was the guy that scouted Jack McDowell IIRC. Well to be honest, with that set of drafts we were coming off horrible seasons and had some top 10 draft picks. McDowell was number 5 overall in 87. He was a stud in the college world series. Ventura was next year, and if you look at his college numbers the guy was dominating. Thomas was the next year. Then Alex Fernandez, who won the golden spikes award that year. Being bad over a period of years is a great way of retooling the old minor league system. Trust me, unless we are totally incompetent. If we are bad for a few years, our minor league system will go from baren to impressive in a short period of time. Its the nature of draft position. The only new factor these days is the boras factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jul 24, 2007 -> 10:26 AM) Well to be honest, with that set of drafts we were coming off horrible seasons and had some top 10 draft picks. McDowell was number 5 overall in 87. He was a stud in the college world series. Ventura was next year, and if you look at his college numbers the guy was dominating. Thomas was the next year. Then Alex Fernandez, who won the golden spikes award that year. Being bad over a period of years is a great way of retooling the old minor league system. Trust me, unless we are totally incompetent. If we are bad for a few years, our minor league system will go from baren to impressive in a short period of time. Its the nature of draft position. The only new factor these days is the boras factor. It's a huge factor. Also: draft picks get much more money nowadays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitlesswonder Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jul 24, 2007 -> 10:26 AM) Well to be honest, with that set of drafts we were coming off horrible seasons and had some top 10 draft picks. Totally agree -- I wasn't defending Shaffer (he was a scout then, not in charge of the draft IIRC). Himes had great picks, but he picked the right guys. Just having a top 10 pick doesn't mean you'll get a player. I think there's a good chance we see an example of that next season with the Sox. Look at the 85 Draft: B.J. Surhoff, Will Clark, Bobby Witt, Barry Larkin.Kurt Brown, Barry Bonds. Guess what team picked Brown? Sure, he was a highly regarded HS catcher but the point remains that Himes picks made the bigs and were all-stars. He also did a good job with trades for the most part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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