NorthSideSox72 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 QUOTE (Athomeboy_2000 @ Oct 13, 2009 -> 10:04 AM) OOPS! Accounting Firm Admits Cost Savings Left Out Of Report Prepared For AHIP Report So, the report being waved around by the GOP and featured prominently on their icky new website failed to include some major parts. PWC didn't forget anything - the insurance companies asked PWC to only analyze certain, specific aspects... then released the report with big flashy numbers that led people to believe it was all-inclusive. Basically, PWC got duped, then the insurance companies tried to dupe everyone else. Embarrassing for PWC, and insulting towards the general public that these insurance idiots thought they could slip one past us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 With the way they are acting, I'm all for single-payer UHC and legally abolishing all insurance companies. I like my politics based on vengeance against the stupid/ liars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyCaucasian Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 13, 2009 -> 10:12 AM) PWC didn't forget anything - the insurance companies asked PWC to only analyze certain, specific aspects... then released the report with big flashy numbers that led people to believe it was all-inclusive. Basically, PWC got duped, then the insurance companies tried to dupe everyone else. Embarrassing for PWC, and insulting towards the general public that these insurance idiots thought they could slip one past us. The White House warned yesterday that it was a self-serving report... guess they were right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 13, 2009 -> 11:12 AM) PWC didn't forget anything - the insurance companies asked PWC to only analyze certain, specific aspects... then released the report with big flashy numbers that led people to believe it was all-inclusive. Basically, PWC got duped, then the insurance companies tried to dupe everyone else. Embarrassing for PWC, and insulting towards the general public that these insurance idiots thought they could slip one past us. I don't think it's possible to insult the general public, we have proved we're as stupid as the cynics think we are time and time again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 QUOTE (lostfan @ Oct 13, 2009 -> 10:47 AM) I don't think it's possible to insult the general public, we have proved we're as stupid as the cynics think we are time and time again. If be "we" you mean a large swath of people but not all (and not me or you), then I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 13, 2009 -> 08:12 AM) PWC didn't forget anything - the insurance companies asked PWC to only analyze certain, specific aspects... then released the report with big flashy numbers that led people to believe it was all-inclusive. Basically, PWC got duped, then the insurance companies tried to dupe everyone else. Embarrassing for PWC, and insulting towards the general public that these insurance idiots thought they could slip one past us. Really, they got duped? You mean they have no idea how this type of report was going to be used? Well, fool them once, shame on, shame on you, fool, you can't get fooled again. In the hallowed tradition of the tobacco and energy industries, the health insurance industry has commissioned a report (pdf) projecting doom and despair for those who seek to reform its business practices. The report was farmed out to the consultancy PricewaterhouseCoopers, which has something of a history with this sort of thing: In the early-'90s, the tobacco industry commissioned PWC to estimate the economic devastation that would result from a tax on tobacco. The report was later analyzed by the Arthur Andersen Economic Consulting group, which concluded that "the cumulative effect of PW’s methods … is to produce patently unreliable results." It's perhaps no surprise that the patently unreliable results were all in the tobacco industry's favor. He who pays the piper names the tune, and all that.They're not being duped, they're being paid a lot of money to attach their name to a report designed to serve a political purpose. Kill the bill or at least damage it significantly, and no one ever is able to see whether or not its correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 It's toasted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 13, 2009 -> 11:49 AM) If be "we" you mean a large swath of people but not all (and not me or you), then I agree. I can't avoid using the word "we" because I sound arrogant so I have to use the pretense that it includes everyone. Although it's implicit that it doesn't include the minority of smart people. Oh f*** it who am I kidding? I'm better than most people and I know it. :high5: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 13, 2009 -> 08:49 AM) If be "we" you mean a large swath of people but not all (and not me or you), then I agree. It's difficult to make a person understand something when his or her salary depends on not understanding it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cknolls Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Is this any worse than a committee voting on a design of a bill. Will the CBO score the bill after it has language added? When the Dems exclude unions from the cadillac plan taxation part, where will the loss of revenue come from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 BREAKING: GOP Sen. Olympia Snowe Says She Will Support Reform Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Oct 13, 2009 -> 12:06 PM) BREAKING: GOP Sen. Olympia Snowe Says She Will Support Reform Bill Not a surprise in the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Brace yourselves for full on communism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Snowe isn't in any danger of losing re-election so she can do whatever she feels like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSox05 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 It's amazing that it took all this effort to get one moderate republican to vote for a watered down bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 QUOTE (GoSox05 @ Oct 13, 2009 -> 12:34 PM) It's amazing that it took all this effort to get one moderate republican to vote for a watered down bill. Its even more amazing the Democrats couldn't hold their own coalition together for one of their pet issues. This could have been done months ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 13, 2009 -> 01:07 PM) Its even more amazing the Democrats couldn't hold their own coalition together for one of their pet issues. This could have been done months ago. Its really not amazing because a bunch of conservative democrats were elected to replace conservative republicans. That's why the OMG 60 SEATS! hysteria was so stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cknolls Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Of the supposed 400-500 billion savings from Medicare, how much will actually be saved? Congress has yet to implement previous attempts to save using the same method. And if they do not act where do we make up that 400-500 billion? ANd add to that the fact that the Baucus bill will make insurance MORE expensive as the AHIP report stated. +90 billion= the amount by which the Ways and Means committee underestimated the eventual cost of Medicare. Why is it so hard to realize that costs always out strip savings in any legislation in Washington.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 QUOTE (Cknolls @ Oct 13, 2009 -> 02:34 PM) Of the supposed 400-500 billion savings from Medicare, how much will actually be saved? Congress has yet to implement previous attempts to save using the same method. And if they do not act where do we make up that 400-500 billion? ANd add to that the fact that the Baucus bill will make insurance MORE expensive as the AHIP report stated. +90 billion= the amount by which the Ways and Means committee underestimated the eventual cost of Medicare. Why is it so hard to realize that costs always out strip savings in any legislation in Washington.... Because they don't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 QUOTE (Cknolls @ Oct 13, 2009 -> 12:34 PM) Of the supposed 400-500 billion savings from Medicare, how much will actually be saved? Congress has yet to implement previous attempts to save using the same method. And if they do not act where do we make up that 400-500 billion? ANd add to that the fact that the Baucus bill will make insurance MORE expensive as the AHIP report stated. LOL priceless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 13, 2009 -> 09:39 PM) LOL priceless One of the few times I can put LOL and mean it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 QUOTE (Cknolls @ Oct 13, 2009 -> 02:34 PM) Of the supposed 400-500 billion savings from Medicare, how much will actually be saved? Congress has yet to implement previous attempts to save using the same method. And if they do not act where do we make up that 400-500 billion? ANd add to that the fact that the Baucus bill will make insurance MORE expensive as the AHIP report stated. +90 billion= the amount by which the Ways and Means committee underestimated the eventual cost of Medicare. Why is it so hard to realize that costs always out strip savings in any legislation in Washington.... Not to mention that tax increases are being counted as pluses in the budget when any idiot economist knows that health care is going to have a near zero beta. Any tax increases will be passed on in higher costs, which means you are just shifting costs from one source to another. It doesn't make it any cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 I applaud Snowe today. Her vote took a lot of courage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostfan Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 QUOTE (Tex @ Oct 14, 2009 -> 09:00 AM) I applaud Snowe today. Her vote took a lot of courage. Not really, her and Collins are in a position where they can do whatever they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 QUOTE (lostfan @ Oct 14, 2009 -> 08:38 AM) Not really, her and Collins are in a position where they can do whatever they want. And add that to why I applaud her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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