What will it take..

[Wanne]

They wont fire Walker because last I checked hes not making millions to hit a ball 1 out of 3 times.

 

Players who listen to Walker, seem to get better.

 

Players who dont, seem to do the same s*** every year.

 

The guy works hard and is well liked by management. I believe he actually offered to step down but they wouldnt let him. The guy is a class act and honestly no hitting coach is going to change this team.

 

good post...

[Dick Allen]

There are 2 things that I want a hitting coach to do that I worry about Walker on.

 

I want a hitting coach to be able to overhaul a guy's swing when it needs it. Some guys, Walker has totally failed to do this with (fields, Anderson). On the other hand, he seems to have done so successfully with Rios, at least so far for this season. Teahen is another one who really needs it, he's terrible right now, but that can change. I'm iffy on this one right now, but getting Teahen going is really important. And not just going; he needs to have a good year overalll.

 

The other thing I want a hitting coach to do is making sure guys have a clear plan when they go up against a pitcher. Take yesterday, with Liriano, for example. He was very, very wild for most of the game, but for at least half of his innings, guys like Jones, Vizquel...etc., were jumping on the first pitch and hitting it weakly or falling behind because the ball was so far out of the zone. You need to prep guys better than this...if you have a guy who isn't attacking the strike zone, you need to be more patient than that.

 

The other thing that you want a hitting coach to do is correct a guy when he has an issue with his swing crop up during a year, but with that one, you never know how much the hitting coach can do, because that one, the player has to listen m id-season.

You are just assuming guys like Fields and Anderson and Teahen are fixable. Not everyone is. Like I've stated before, who has ever left the White Sox after working with Walker and had a ton more success elsewhere under a different hitting coach? The only guy I can remotely think of is Swisher, and the big reason they dumped Swisher was he wouldn't listen to Walker. The list of players who struggle before they came to the White Sox and picked it up after working with Walker is a list that is more than just a little longer. The blame he gets when older broken down one trick pony hitters hit a certain way is beyond ridiculous. If Teahen doesn't hit, how in the world could that be because of Walker? Maybe its just Teahen isn't very good.

[whitesoxfan101]

This is the one year Walker cannot be blamed. Nobody could coach up a good offense with this group of players.

[The Ginger Kid]

a better poll would've been "how long until a fire greg walker themed thread gets started"

 

no way I would've guessed 5 games. But it's always nice to be surprised.

[caulfield12]

You are just assuming guys like Fields and Anderson and Teahen are fixable. Not everyone is. Like I've stated before, who has ever left the White Sox after working with Walker and had a ton more success elsewhere under a different hitting coach? The only guy I can remotely think of is Swisher, and the big reason they dumped Swisher was he wouldn't listen to Walker. The list of players who struggle before they came to the White Sox and picked it up after working with Walker is a list that is more than just a little longer. The blame he gets when older broken down one trick pony hitters hit a certain way is beyond ridiculous. If Teahen doesn't hit, how in the world could that be because of Walker? Maybe its just Teahen isn't very good.

 

Ryan Sweeney, although his "sort of" success with the A's doesn't have anything to do with Walker or the lack thereof, arguably

[TitoMB345]

a better poll would've been "how long until a fire greg walker themed thread gets started"

 

no way I would've guessed 5 games. But it's always nice to be surprised.

This is in no way a "fire greg Walker" themed thread.

 

It was simply a question, asking what you think he needs to do to get fired. Clearly hes not going to get fired.

[southsider2k5]

When Guillen goes, Walker goes.

[Quin]

I disagree that Walker is a poor hitting coach.

 

His philosophy is good (use all fields and be patient) the problem is that most players dont listen to hitting coaches.

 

Beckham already uses the field, what Walker can help him with his how pitchers are going to attack him, etc.

 

Everyone who has worked with Walker has nothing but good to great things to say.

 

The only people who seem to dislike him are people on this site who for no reason believe Walker teaches "lift and pull."

 

This. Walker coached a powerful offense in 2006 (My god, if I could combine that offense with this pitching staff, we're looking at some insane win total).

 

Rios & Konerko listen to Walker, they hit it hard.

 

Dye became an offensive power when he came to Chicago.

 

This is why a good Alexei is needed and an Adrian Gonzalez is wanted.

 

If Pierre could just get on base, then you could have Alexei get him over if Alexei could draw a walk or bunt, but he can't for god knows why. Then you have Gonzalez, who you must pitch to because Quentin's behind him, and then Konerko, followed by Rios or Beckham. You have to pitch to them, but right now, teams don't have to worry about Gordon because he's stuck advancing Pierre, and Konerko has Mark Kotsay behind him.

[TitoMB345]

This. Walker coached a powerful offense in 2006 (My god, if I could combine that offense with this pitching staff, we're looking at some insane win total).

 

Rios & Konerko listen to Walker, they hit it hard.

 

Dye became an offensive power when he came to Chicago.

 

This is why a good Alexei is needed and an Adrian Gonzalez is wanted.

 

If Pierre could just get on base, then you could have Alexei get him over if Alexei could draw a walk or bunt, but he can't for god knows why. Then you have Gonzalez, who you must pitch to because Quentin's behind him, and then Konerko, followed by Rios or Beckham. You have to pitch to them, but right now, teams don't have to worry about Gordon because he's stuck advancing Pierre, and Konerko has Mark Kotsay behind him.

Your post is completely off-topic and doesn't discuss the poll question at all.

 

[TitoMB345]

Teahen, Jones, Kotsay,Pierre,..........these guys are all HOF quality hitters at this point in their careers. The fact that they haven't hit well during the season's first 4 games is ample proof Greg Walker is a good and needs to be fired immediately.

 

Yet another ridiculous thread.

This post was really meant to be more comical then serious. I thought I made that pretty clear with the choices being obviously impossible, or very very unlikely in any way. And I also never said (in this thread anyways) that Walker should be fired. I simply posed a question.

[Quin]

Your post is completely off-topic and doesn't discuss the poll question at all.

 

I joked about it in like the third post of thread, but I needed to reiterate that point.

 

 

[SoxAce]

Teahen, Jones, Kotsay,Pierre,..........these guys are all HOF quality hitters at this point in their careers. The fact that they haven't hit well during the season's first 4 games is ample proof Greg Walker is a good and needs to be fired immediately.

 

Yet another ridiculous thread.

 

Reminds me of what I said in the Guillen thread a couple of days ago.

I've said it plenty of times too, there should be ZERO blame Greg Walker threads this season. Look at the crap he has to work with. If Beckham, Quentin and Konerko are hitting .230 by July (not to mention there are the only four I see putting up a .350+ OBP unless I'm missing someone.. Maybe Teahen if he hits as good as he's walking), then I'll jump on Walker.

 

This isn't last year when he had established hitters in Thome, Dye, etc.. Guys like Kotsay, Pierre, Jones, etc.. are what they are. NOW, if Konerko, Quentin, Beckham, Alexei are hitting horribly by say.. July, then the bashing is more warranted.

[jasonxctf]

a point to consider, while Walker may not be "responsible" for the actions of the players, he is the coach.

 

And if the players dont respect the coach enough to listen to him, then you need to find a coach who they will respect enough to listen to. Or you replace those players who won't listen.

 

 

[WCSox]

And if the players dont respect the coach enough to listen to him, then you need to find a coach who they will respect enough to listen to. Or you replace those players who won't listen.

 

I've seen so many bad at-bats from this squad over the past year that I'm beginning to think that this may be the problem. Walker certainly isn't teaching these guys to swing at the first pitch in every at-bat and to try to pull everything. And I'm not sure that the problem has anything to do with Walker himself, but may be indicative of a general culture of selfishness in the clubhouse instead. At the very least, it looked like this team as a whole was just showing up to collect a paycheck after last year's ASB. If that was indeed the predominant mentality, it's not a stretch to imagine that guys weren't taking extra BP and doing the things that they needed to do to step up their game.

 

Whatever the reason, it's nice to see Rios work hard with Walker to get back on track. That a far cry from what guys like Anderson and Swisher have done in the recent past.

 

[Ranger]

 

 

Our best hitter right now is not Beckham.

 

People need to get over the hype, the guy is good, but hes not a superstar yet and its very likely that he may experience some problems in his sophomore campaign. Teams are already shading him to RF and as pitchers get better scouting reports on him he is going to have to learn to adjust.

 

He has a ton of raw natural talent as a hitter, but he still has a lot to learn about being a professional hitter.

 

Thank you.

 

I disagree that Walker is a poor hitting coach.

 

His philosophy is good (use all fields and be patient) the problem is that most players dont listen to hitting coaches.

 

Beckham already uses the field, what Walker can help him with his how pitchers are going to attack him, etc.

 

Everyone who has worked with Walker has nothing but good to great things to say.

 

The only people who seem to dislike him are people on this site who for no reason believe Walker teaches "lift and pull."

 

Absolutely true. It's kind of how it is with major leaguers these days. Usually, the talented players that actually listen to the hitting coach will make improvements.

 

a point to consider, while Walker may not be "responsible" for the actions of the players, he is the coach.

 

And if the players dont respect the coach enough to listen to him, then you need to find a coach who they will respect enough to listen to. Or you replace those players who won't listen.

 

It isn't about respect, it's about the mental makeup of the player. Some guys are willing to listen, some guys are not. There is a reason that so many of these guys get fired so frequently, and it usually isn't because they're incompetent.

[ScottyDo]

There are 2 things that I want a hitting coach to do that I worry about Walker on.

 

I want a hitting coach to be able to overhaul a guy's swing when it needs it. Some guys, Walker has totally failed to do this with (fields, Anderson). On the other hand, he seems to have done so successfully with Rios, at least so far for this season. Teahen is another one who really needs it, he's terrible right now, but that can change. I'm iffy on this one right now, but getting Teahen going is really important. And not just going; he needs to have a good year overalll.

 

The other thing I want a hitting coach to do is making sure guys have a clear plan when they go up against a pitcher. Take yesterday, with Liriano, for example. He was very, very wild for most of the game, but for at least half of his innings, guys like Jones, Vizquel...etc., were jumping on the first pitch and hitting it weakly or falling behind because the ball was so far out of the zone. You need to prep guys better than this...if you have a guy who isn't attacking the strike zone, you need to be more patient than that.

 

The other thing that you want a hitting coach to do is correct a guy when he has an issue with his swing crop up during a year, but with that one, you never know how much the hitting coach can do, because that one, the player has to listen m id-season.

I agree with those who say get off Walker's back, except with respect to the bolded. I have definitely noticed a consistent lack of approach to pretty much everybody, and consequently, we're handcuffed by bad players. "See the ball, hit the ball" is sound advice for the players that put too much pressure on themselves, but that doesn't preclude you from bringing a little logic up there with you. I've seen the Sox swing at all sorts of ridiculous pitches many times, presumably because they're guessing against the odds.

 

Granted, team bias may play a part here, because when I see opposing hitters wave foolishly at a Floyd curveball, I just assume it's because Floyd is a god and they are but mortals.

 

I just think, on the whole, that the Sox approach at the plate is not wonderful and has resulted in a lower OBP than we should expect -> (too many solo HR's)

[Texsox]

When Guillen goes, Walker goes.

 

 

And Walker will be back working quicker than Ozzie.

[Ranger]

I agree with those who say get off Walker's back, except with respect to the bolded. I have definitely noticed a consistent lack of approach to pretty much everybody, and consequently, we're handcuffed by bad players. "See the ball, hit the ball" is sound advice for the players that put too much pressure on themselves, but that doesn't preclude you from bringing a little logic up there with you. I've seen the Sox swing at all sorts of ridiculous pitches many times, presumably because they're guessing against the odds.

 

Granted, team bias may play a part here, because when I see opposing hitters wave foolishly at a Floyd curveball, I just assume it's because Floyd is a god and they are but mortals.

 

I just think, on the whole, that the Sox approach at the plate is not wonderful and has resulted in a lower OBP than we should expect -> (too many solo HR's)

 

They have the gameplan and they know the weaknesses and what to exploit. In fact, in addition to everything else, hitters get a card for each day's starter with all the info they need and which gives them a basic gameplan. It's up to the player to use it.

[Rowand44]

Our best hitter right now is not Beckham.

 

People need to get over the hype, the guy is good, but hes not a superstar yet and its very likely that he may experience some problems in his sophomore campaign. Teams are already shading him to RF and as pitchers get better scouting reports on him he is going to have to learn to adjust.

 

He has a ton of raw natural talent as a hitter, but he still has a lot to learn about being a professional hitter.

Arguable. You say he's not a superstar yet, while that might be true, we don't have a superstar in our lineup besides a healthy Quentin. You can say he's going to go into a sophomore slump but I'll argue that he's going to improve quite a bit considering last year was not only his rookie season but it was his first full season in professional baseball. Of course he'll go into a slump at some point this season(considering every hitter in baseball does) but with this current lineup he already had the 2nd best season out of anyone last year and I'd bet he'll be right around there again this year(1st or 2nd depending on the health of Carlos).

[caulfield12]

I was just thinking about the topic of hitters who have gone on to success after leaving Chicago...besides the obvious ones like Ordonez and Carlos Lee.

 

Besides Ryan Sweeney and Swisher, another batter that never reached his potential (certainly not after the 2004 season) was Juan Uribe. Aaron Rowand also comes to mind...but Uribe, we more or less gave up on, at least to my thinking. He also was a big reason for our success in holding off the Twins the final six weeks of 2008 after Crede went down for good.

 

I don't know how much we can ascribe the National League as the primary reason for their success (Rowand/Uribe)...and I don't even think it would matter much if we had Fields and Getz back (instead of Teahen, or had we kept Uribe), because they wouldn't have roles NOW unless Fields could actually hit a FB and play LF competently.

 

Maybe if Andruw Jones has a complete season, Walker can take credit...or if Alex Rios returns to the All-Star form of 2005-2008.

Edited April 14, 2010 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

I was just thinking about the topic of hitters who have gone on to success after leaving Chicago...besides the obvious ones like Ordonez and Carlos Lee.

 

Besides Ryan Sweeney and Swisher, another batter that never reached his potential (certainly not after the 2004 season) was Juan Uribe. Aaron Rowand also comes to mind...but Uribe, we more or less gave up on, at least to my thinking. He also was a big reason for our success in holding off the Twins the final six weeks of 2008 after Crede went down for good.

 

I don't know how much we can ascribe the National League as the primary reason for their success (Rowand/Uribe)...and I don't even think it would matter much if we had Fields and Getz back (instead of Teahen, or had we kept Uribe), because they wouldn't have roles NOW unless Fields could actually hit a FB and play LF competently.

 

Maybe if Andruw Jones has a complete season, Walker can take credit...or if Alex Rios returns to the All-Star form of 2005-2008.

Juan Uribe was a lot better ballplayer than Soxtalk ever gave him credit for. Rowand had a big year in 2004, was mediocre in 2005, and had one big year since leaving the Sox and has been pretty mediocre, so much so, the Giants were thinking about trading him for Milton Bradley this winter.

[kitekrazy]

The only thing I see is the same pattern in hitting or lack of the past 3 years. The only thing has changed is the roster to some extent. I can see that as grounds for firing Walker but I think you wouldn't see much of a change.

[caulfield12]

But Dick Allen, in your mind, do you think that Uribe simply started tuning Walker out? It seems at times that Uribe TRIED to change his approach and go more to the opposite field instead of being a dead-red hitter, but 90% of the time he fell back into bad habits. Still, he was always a MAN about somehow managing to drive in 65-75 RBI's per season, no matter how poor his overall average. I think many here would be thrilled if Mark Teahen could replicate that typical 20 HR, 65-80 RBI URIBE line with a higher OBP. Because the fact of the matter was that Uribe was loved by every one of his teammates and the coaches as well, and he saved the pitchers countless times with his D, something Teahen won't do nearly as much.

 

What about Alexei Ramirez? Did he overachieve in 2008? Did the league simply adjust to him, pounding him with offspeed stuff...how much of that is a product of Ramirez (and Walker) failing to adjust...how much of it is Alexei perhaps overachieving in 2008 (see Berroa, Angel, Rookie Year)? How much of it is Alexei's defensive lapses being carried over to the offensive side?

 

 

 

 

[Greg Hibbard]

It is amazing to me that this team 3-5 with a team OPS under .700.

[caulfield12]

A blistering 673 OPS, 27th in all of MLB.

 

On the bright side, fans in Cleveland, Seattle and Houston can all collectively be more frustrated than Sox fans.