ESPN BBTN Says Wave the Red Flag

[chisoxfan09]

The importance in keeping Hudson has more to do with Buehrle and Danks than Freddy. Two years from now the top three in the rotation might be Peavy, Floyd, Hudson.

 

 

 

Berkman will be cheaper to sign as a FA, but he's already 34. If the Sox were to sign him, it'd be for the short-term.

 

Yeah just checked his stats/age and he could be a short term gap filler but not the long term middle of the order high OBP lefty power bat we would love to have. Can´t see any impact bat like that unless we wait for Prince Fielder to hit FA and then it will be a 200 million dollar paycheck easy.

[elrockinMT]

i just want to remind everyone that we just got swept by the indians.

 

 

I hrd pill to swallow but you are right

[elrockinMT]

I was really high on at least KW trying to pry Agon loose from the Pads for a package centered on Hudson/Flowers and Morel. But I don´t know anymore. If Freddie fails then we need the insurance that Hudson can possibly provide. I think another poster suggested looking at Berkman which may be a cheaper option. Let´s hope the Sox turn it around and play better ball from now until the trade deadline.

 

 

Building from within - meaning using our minor league stars- seesm to be the way to go in my opinion. The Sox made some moves in this off season and got older not younger.

[elrockinMT]

We are a s***ty, last place team, with a s***ty, last place offense.

 

We lost a lot of production when we let Thome and Dye walk (still the right calls), but did NOTHING to replace it.

 

I am beyond pissed and disappointed with the White Sox right now.

 

All of that said, talk of waving the White Flag in April is ridiculous.

 

 

They aren't saying anything about a white flag in April. The point that was made is "red flag" and if this is what we are facing in 2 more months then trades mighnt be possible and they specifically mentioned a-gon

[Sox72]

Can't say that I do. But it's not we. Its the White Sox.

 

I've never understood why people find it necessary to point out this distinction. It just seems like some sort of meticulous criticism that you probably picked up from B&B.

[Balta1701]

They aren't saying anything about a white flag in April. The point that was made is "red flag" and if this is what we are facing in 2 more months then trades mighnt be possible and they specifically mentioned a-gon

If this is what we're facing in several months...then that means a severe sophomore slump for Beckham with a sub-.700 OPS, that means Quentin is essentially finished (he's sporting a .727 OPS), that means AJ and Pierre are finished, and that means Alexei's early season slump lasted for more than a short burst. Oh, and Alex Rios is the unluckiest guy I've ever seen (105 OPS+ and Babip of .289). And that Jake Peavy and Freddy Garcia are finished and Gavin Floyd has fallen apart completely.

[ThunderBolt]

I've never understood why people find it necessary to point out this distinction. It just seems like some sort of meticulous criticism that you probably picked up from B&B.

Especially, amongst a crowd of people that are so devoted to the White Sox that we post on a message board, and flip out on a daily basis about the state of the team.

[southsider2k5]

I've never understood why people find it necessary to point out this distinction. It just seems like some sort of meticulous criticism that you probably picked up from B&B.

 

And if it is an important distinction for that particular poster, he is hanging out in the wrong place, with the wrong people.

[elrockinMT]

If this is what we're facing in several months...then that means a severe sophomore slump for Beckham with a sub-.700 OPS, that means Quentin is essentially finished (he's sporting a .727 OPS), that means AJ and Pierre are finished, and that means Alexei's early season slump lasted for more than a short burst. Oh, and Alex Rios is the unluckiest guy I've ever seen (105 OPS+ and Babip of .289). And that Jake Peavy and Freddy Garcia are finished and Gavin Floyd has fallen apart completely.

 

 

Let's hope thnat we don't see that disaster

 

I take it you are not seeing us in last place in June?

[hammerhead johnson]

It's not we. Its the White Sox.

 

It's bigger than just the players themselves. I don't want to say something lame like "White Sox Nation" to describe what I mean by "we", but you get the point.

[caulfield12]

White Sox Nation died at the All-Star break in 2006, briefly reappeared in 2008 and hasn't been seen or heard from since then...

 

But i was fun for a season and a half while it lasted. The bandwagon fans are almost all gone now. It's the whole law of baseball economics...the benefits of winning a World Series title last for roughly five years after that championship.

 

We're at roughly that point now...returning back to the "norm" for us as second class citizens and blue collar roots, haha.

[Disco72]

Building from within - meaning using our minor league stars- seesm to be the way to go in my opinion. The Sox made some moves in this off season and got older not younger.

 

Building from within is definitely necessary. Not to beat the Twins-rock-in-drafting horse further, but when you look at their payroll distribution, they get some very strong contributions from guys not making a lot of money. The Sox need to continue to have an influx of young talent so that they can pay good money to keep key stars and bring in critical FAs (even if that is via trade, not actual free agency).

 

I would point out that the Sox did not actually get older in the offseason. The bench may be older, but the everyday lineup is younger.

[knightni]

So, is this the Royal "We?"

 

 

I don't like using it either. My fandom doesn't affect their play on the field one way or another, so I am a spectator - not a direct part of the team.

 

If they want to pay me to be a part of the organization...that's different.

[justBLAZE]

So, is this the Royal "We?"

 

 

I don't like using it either. My fandom doesn't affect their play on the field one way or another, so I am a spectator - not a direct part of the team.

 

If they want to pay me to be a part of the organization...that's different.

 

But the money we spend on tickets affects the revenue which affects the budged which ultimately affects players contracts and what players are being brought it to compete.

 

Aren't fans a part of the organization because without them, the organization wouldn't be able to exist.

[greg775]

Who gives a f*** if some of us like to say "we."

We are fans. Big deal.

 

If topics like this become a big deal ... I'm speechless.

"We" know we are not members of the f***ing team. "We" have followed the team for years, some of us decades. Grow up.

Edited April 19, 2010 by greg775

[caulfield12]

Building from within is definitely necessary. Not to beat the Twins-rock-in-drafting horse further, but when you look at their payroll distribution, they get some very strong contributions from guys not making a lot of money. The Sox need to continue to have an influx of young talent so that they can pay good money to keep key stars and bring in critical FAs (even if that is via trade, not actual free agency).

 

I would point out that the Sox did not actually get older in the offseason. The bench may be older, but the everyday lineup is younger.

 

 

It's simple, their method is based on an organizational/development approach that has worked for a decade.

 

Ours is based on "stealing" talent from other organizations, but it's like beating the stock market index or Vanguard Funds. You can't do it on a yearly basis, which is why we're so up and down.

 

Getting Ramirez/Quentin/Danks and Floyd has been followed with the opposite results in the Swisher deal...jury's still out on the Vazquez one.

 

Look at our ten most valuable players:

 

1) Beckham (draft)

2) Danks (trade of decade three)

3) Floyd (trade of decade two)

4) Buehrle (draft)

5) Quentin (trade of decade four, albeit becoming more interesting)

6) Thornton (trade of decade)

7) Ramirez (FA find of the year)

8) Santos (stolen)

9) Jenks (stolen)

10/11) Rios and Peavy (financial deals)

12) Pena (trade)

13) Putz (FA)

 

You look at the Twins' top 10, almost all of their top guys came from their own system, with the exceptions of Lirano, D. Young and Nathan.

 

But look at the bottom half of our roster...those are players we had to fill because we didn't develop our own players.

 

Pierre (lack of developing our own leadoff hitter internally or trading for one, see Owens/Wise/Lillibridge...trades of Chris B. Young/Rowand)

Teahen (Uribe diminishing returns, Joe Crede's health and lack of ready minor league replacement in Fields/Morel/Viciedo)

Kotsay...Joe Borchard never develops into LH version of Dunn with more athleticism, trade of Brandon Allen

Andruw Jones...desperate reclamation project

Rios had to be signed because of Brian Anderson's failure for 4 seasons to develop, and the club's lack of confidence for Sweeney to play CF

Linebrink/Dotel...lack of development in minor league bullpen arms, blown assessments/development with Aardsma, Sisco, MacDougal and Masset, etc.

Nix (stolen)

Garcia/Colon....lack of development of a legit 5th starter internally (only ones have been McCarthy, Gio, maybe, and now, hopefully Hudson) also see Broadway/McCulloch/Honel/Poreda...although Richard was a heckuva find in the 8th round for $78,000

Vizquel...career plateau of Uribe at age 28-29 under Walker's guidance, but reborn in SF

Williams

Lucy...Castro injury, Castro traded/signed for too much money because we didn't develop our own catchers

Edited April 19, 2010 by caulfield12

[DaveBrown85]

So, is this the Royal "We?"

 

 

I don't like using it either. My fandom doesn't affect their play on the field one way or another, so I am a spectator - not a direct part of the team.

 

If they want to pay me to be a part of the organization...that's different.

Thank you. That exactly how I look at it also.

[greg775]

To Dave Brown, why do you care?

Don't you have other things to occupy your concern? Like whether international flights should be flying over the volcano? Or whether the recession will ever end? Or ... anything?

[bmags]

k guys, sorry for saying we. I hope i offended you. I hope you spit coffee all over your lap top. Move along.

[caulfield12]

Wasn't Dave Brown the former QB of the NY Giants?

 

Any connection with the name?

[knightni]

But the money we spend on tickets affects the revenue which affects the budged which ultimately affects players contracts and what players are being brought it to compete.

 

Aren't fans a part of the organization because without them, the organization wouldn't be able to exist.

 

En masse, the fans can make a difference financially, of course. I'm saying though, that as individuals, we have no effect on what goes on once the game starts. The players', coaches', and manager's abilities and decisions decide it in the end. Thus, I am not a part of that and am not able to say "we."

 

Who gives a f*** if some of us like to say "we."

We are fans. Big deal.

 

If topics like this become a big deal ... I'm speechless.

"We" know we are not members of the f***ing team. "We" have followed the team for years, some of us decades. Grow up.

 

I really don't care if fans say "we" or not Greg. I was not posting to prove any point. Just voicing my own opinion and explaining why Dave may feel like he does.

 

k guys, sorry for saying we. I hope i offended you. I hope you spit coffee all over your lap top. Move along.

 

Say what you want, how you want (within reason of course.)

 

[caulfield12]

Can I spit on Ozzie Guillen's LH/RH index cards (not laptop) and Twitter phone?

[greg775]

My posts were meant at Dave, not you, Knight. Definitely not at you. All my posts were at him for getting worked up about the "we."

[chisoxfan09]

My posts were meant at Dave, not you, Knight. Definitely not at you. All my posts were at him for getting worked up about the "we."

 

I agree, we should not get worked up about us not being part of the real team. We are fans and have some input into the revenue but not much else. Definitely not worth spitting up blood in a thread.

[Soxfest]

Sox have Greg Walker all will be fine!