I know people are down playing the names being kicked around for our relievers, but it isn't like relievers haven't brought quality prospects before. See also Brandon Allen for Tony Pena, or Jeff Bagwell for Larry Anderson, or Ricardo Rincon for Brian Giles, or Jason Varitek and Derek Lowe for Heathcliff Slocumb. It happens.

Serious question...in those deals...how many of them were lower, A-ball level guys when they were traded?

 

(p.s. Jon Garland for Matt Karchner)

Allen was pretty advanced for a prospect, although Pena's got pretty damn good stuff for a reliever.

 

But KW's usually the guy trading a prospect to get a reliever, not the other way round.

Allen was pretty advanced for a prospect, although Pena's got pretty damn good stuff for a reliever.

I got the impression he was at an advanced level, but very few people seemed to think he was the next Jeff Bagwell. More like an "average/replacement" level 1b who could keep the spot warm for a couple years if things went well.

I got the impression he was at an advanced level, but very few people seemed to think he was the next Jeff Bagwell. More like an "average/replacement" level 1b who could keep the spot warm for a couple years if things went well.

Yeah I guess when I meant advanced, I meant he was well pretty major league ready or close to it. He's not going to be a major impact guy obviously, although he might have a chance in Arizona in the long - term in that ballpark, but he'd need Laroche to leave also.

Yeah I guess when I meant advanced, I meant he was well pretty major league ready or close to it. He's not going to be a major impact guy obviously, although he might have a chance in Arizona in the long - term in that ballpark, but he'd need Laroche to leave also.

Basically, my point is this.

 

If you're trading a low value reliever, you can do 1 of 2 things. You can target a high level, possibly nearly MLB ready guy...but the odds are you're going to get more Brandon Allen than Jeff Bagwell.

 

Or, you can find some 19 year old with some talent in the rookie leagues/low A ball, and maybe try to get him or him and his friend. Your "Bust" percentage will be a lot higher, but the odds of you finding a star are probably greater. That's the Bagwell, Garland, etc., style trade.

If you're trading a low value reliever, you can do 1 of 2 things. You can target a high level, possibly nearly MLB ready guy...but the odds are you're going to get more Brandon Allen than Jeff Bagwell.

 

Why is Jenks such a low value closer aside from Soxtalk people undervaluing their own again?

Sign me up.

Why is Jenks such a low value closer aside from Soxtalk people undervaluing their own again?

 

HA! Soxtalk undervalues their own? That might be the funniest thing I've heard in a long time. Jenks has such low value because he's getting to be extremely expensive, has huge concerns about the health of his elbow due to not throwing curveballs again, and just isn't very effective.

Why is Jenks such a low value closer aside from Soxtalk people undervaluing their own again?

 

His contract, and future contracts are going to be expensive, with his production being in question. Any other questions?

HA! Soxtalk undervalues their own? That might be the funniest thing I've heard in a long time. Jenks has such low value because he's getting to be extremely expensive, has huge concerns about the health of his elbow due to not throwing curveballs again, and just isn't very effective.

 

 

Still, I bet Fatboy will dominate in the NL... especially if he goes to a contending team with good leadership like the Phillies.

Still, I bet Fatboy will dominate in the NL... especially if he goes to a contending team with good leadership like the Phillies.

 

Totally agree, as well as maybe a new pitching coach that will stress to him to unleash the 4 seam high fastball again.

unleash the 4 seam high fastball again.

Hasn't he been burned repeatedly on that pitch this season?

Hasn't he been burned repeatedly on that pitch this season?

 

Yes, cause he hasn't maintained steady velocity with it due to messing around with all of his other pitches. All he needs to be successful is a 97 mph high fastball and a curveball. However, he's played around with the change-up so much, and that's why you see his velocity jumping from 92-96 on any given day. He also needs to lose that cutter, as that's what he throws to lefties a lot and isn't successful.

Totally agree, as well as maybe a new pitching coach that will stress to him to unleash the 4 seam high fastball again.

 

Which is why he has a good amount of value to an NL team.

I bet if he goes to the Phillies and excels, he'll rip the Sox organization. He seems like that type of guy.

I bet if he goes to the Phillies and excels, he'll rip the Sox organization. He seems like that type of guy.

 

I get the feeling when Jenks goes there will be some nasty stories from both sides. Just a hunch.

Still, I bet Fatboy will dominate in the NL... especially if he goes to a contending team with good leadership like the Phillies.

 

He just needs a Dubee to set his mind right.

I get the feeling when Jenks goes there will be some nasty stories from both sides. Just a hunch.

 

Let's hope not, as it really is a remarkable recovery from where he was prior to 2005.

Still, I bet Fatboy will dominate in the NL... especially if he goes to a contending team with good leadership like the Phillies.

 

 

I bet if he goes to the Phillies and excels, he'll rip the Sox organization. He seems like that type of guy.

 

 

He just needs a Dubee to set his mind right.

 

Respectful.

 

Respectful.

 

Excuse me?

Respectful.

Know your Phillies coaching staff.

HA! Soxtalk undervalues their own? That might be the funniest thing I've heard in a long time. Jenks has such low value because he's getting to be extremely expensive, has huge concerns about the health of his elbow due to not throwing curveballs again, and just isn't very effective.

 

He's still been great in terms of percentage of games saved.

Since when do big market teams care about salary?

 

And you think Sox fans don't undervalue their own? They wanted to run a highly effective Pods out of town for getting picked off a few times.

They undervalued guys like Rowand and Uribe and Garland and Crede and Thome and Dye. Need I list more guys give lack of respect?

Edited May 24, 201015 yr by greg775

He's still been great in terms of percentage of games saved.

Since when do big market teams care about salary?

 

And you think Sox fans don't undervalue their own? They wanted to run a highly effective Pods out of town for getting picked off a few times.

They undervalued guys like Rowand and Uribe and Garland and Crede and Thome and Dye. Need I list more guys give lack of respect?

 

Undervalued Dye? Same guy who can't get a job? GMs don't care about save percentage if they see how much someone is struggling. Our own KW didn't care about save percentage when Shingo was struggling in 2005.

He's still been great in terms of percentage of games saved.

Since when do big market teams care about salary?

 

And you think Sox fans don't undervalue their own? They wanted to run a highly effective Pods out of town for getting picked off a few times.

They undervalued guys like Rowand and Uribe and Garland and Crede and Thome and Dye. Need I list more guys give lack of respect?

Greg, we traded Rowand for Thome.

 

Greg, we traded Rowand for Thome.

 

I'm talking about the fans undervaluing their own. Lot of bashing of Rowand and people who thought we could do better in cf even though it was a wasteland until this year's version of Rios.

Lot of people bagged on Thome even though he'd be way better than this year's piece of s*** DH by committee and lousy lineup.