They're the blueprint on how to run a year-in and year-out successful organization. Other than the Lackey signing, I can't think of a single bad move they've made in the last 7 or 8 years. Well, I guess you can throw Jenks in there. He's bad.

 

Ha! Forgot about Dice K. They're not perfect, obviously. But they do so much right that it negates when they make a mistake.

 

It sure helps when you have their payroll.

It sure helps when you have their payroll.

Well when you've sold out every single game for 8+ years dating back to when their payroll was 5th in baseball and only a little more $10M more than the #11 team . . .

 

You also have to make the most of that payroll, something teams seem to have an awful lot of trouble with.

It sure helps when you have their payroll.

 

Nothing to do with their scouting and player development.

Nothing to do with their scouting and player development.

 

which is much easier when you can spend more money than anyone else

which is much easier when you can spend more money than anyone else

 

Again, that has nothing to do with scouting and player development. Deep pockets come into play when it comes to retaining and signing free agents.

Again, that has nothing to do with scouting and player development. Deep pockets come into play when it comes to retaining and signing free agents.

 

You are off of your rocker if you think that stuff isn't a direct result of money.

I guess having the highest or close to highest payroll in our division for a the last few years doesn't translate as well.

You are off of your rocker if you think that stuff isn't a direct result of money.

 

No, I'm not. Don't pigeonhole the Red Sox because we're completely and totally inept in this department. You know who's spent the most money in the draft the last 4 years? The free-spending Pittsburgh Pirates.

No, I'm not. Don't pigeonhole the Red Sox because we're completely and totally inept in this department. You know who's spent the most money in the draft the last 4 years? The free-spending Pittsburgh Pirates.

 

You just bolstered my point. It is all about money. You have to spend money here to be successful.

You just bolstered my point. It is all about money. You have to spend money here to be successful.

 

No, you make it sound as if the Red Sox are the only team that can devote more money to this cause. And even then, the science of scouting is so inexact that money only plays a certain role.

No, you make it sound as if the Red Sox are the only team that can devote more money to this cause. And even then, the science of scouting is so inexact that money only plays a certain role.

 

By their very nature they can devote a lot more money that most teams, and still be able to put a quality major league team on the field in Boston.

 

I have used this example before, but for the 2011 Sox, it would have meant not signing Jesse Crain in order to be able to draft and sign the way you want to.

By their very nature they can devote a lot more money that most teams, and still be able to put a quality major league team on the field in Boston.

 

I have used this example before, but for the 2011 Sox, it would have meant not signing Jesse Crain in order to be able to draft and sign the way you want to.

Or if we didn't erroneously claim Alex Rios, we could have devoted that money to the draft and player development. The Sox apparently don't understand basic MLB economics, or if they understand it, they appear apathetic toward it. If you draft and develop your own players, you have them on your roster at incredibly efficient rates, thus you can spend less on the MLB payroll. And then you can take that money you have saved on the MLB roster and put that back into drafting and developing to repeat the cycle year in and year out. That's been the Braves formula for years. Ditto for the Rays, and their success is remarkable considering the two behemoths in their division.

Edited July 24, 201114 yr by maggsmaggs

Or if we didn't erroneously claim Alex Rios, we could have devoted that money to the draft and player development. The Sox apparently don't understand basic MLB economics, or if they understand it, they appear apathetic toward it. If you draft and develop your own players, you have them on your roster at incredibly efficient rates, thus you can spend less on the MLB payroll. And then you can take that money you have saved on the MLB roster and put that back into drafting and developing to repeat the cycle year in and year out. That's been the Braves formula for years. Ditto for the Rays, and their success is remarkable considering the two behemoths in their division.

 

Or they understand if they don't have major league players on the roster they don't have fans in the park. Don't give me the Rays example because they spent 10 years with incredibly bad teams to get to where they are now. They still can't fill the ballpark either.

Or they understand if they don't have major league players on the roster they don't have fans in the park. Don't give me the Rays example because they spent 10 years with incredibly bad teams to get to where they are now. They still can't fill the ballpark either.

We haven't ever been able to fill the ballpark except for 2005 and 2006. We have a $120 million payroll this year full with supposed Major League baseball players and we are averaging 24,000 people. Sox fans come out only to see a winning team, and if you follow that draft and develop model, you will win, especially with the inherent advantages the Sox have over its competitors in the division.

 

And for the Rays, considering they didn't exist until 1998 and had a minuscule payroll every year playing in the hardest division in baseball, their success the last four years is remarkable. The Sox would have nary a playoff appearance in the last 15 years in that division.

Edited July 24, 201114 yr by maggsmaggs

We haven't ever been able to fill the ballpark except for 2005 and 2006. We have a $120 million payroll this year full with supposed Major League baseball players and we are averaging 24,000 people. Sox fans come out only to see a winning team, and if you follow that draft and develop model, you will win, especially with the inherent advantages the Sox have over its competitors in the division.

 

And for the Rays, considering they didn't exist until 1998 and had a minuscule payroll every year playing in the hardest division in baseball, their success the last four years is remarkable. The Sox would have nary a playoff appearance in the last 15 years in that division.

 

We wouldn't have a $120 million payroll if we endured the years of suckiness to have a minor league system like Tampa Bay. We'd be in the $50 to $75 million range.

We wouldn't have a $120 million payroll if we endured the years of suckiness to have a minor league system like Tampa Bay. We'd be in the $50 to $75 million range.

This is the chicken or the egg argument. We wouldn't have had to spend so much if we had a good farm system filled with talent.

This is the chicken or the egg argument. We wouldn't have had to spend so much if we had a good farm system filled with talent.

 

The difference is, the Rays have to trade that good talent(Garza) away or watch it walk(Crawford, Soriano, Pena) because they can only choose to keep a few of them(Longoria). The Sox can resign their talent if they choose

This is the chicken or the egg argument. We wouldn't have had to spend so much if we had a good farm system filled with talent.

 

At this point it isn't though. We actually would have to switch spending philosophy's to become a system based team. That means having big holes at the major league level that you can't try to fill through payroll.

Anyone think the Sox frugal draft spending might have to do with bitterness over Joe Borchard?

Edited July 24, 201114 yr by Quinarvy

Anyone think the Sox frugal draft spending might have to do with bitterness over Joe Borchard?

 

Wouldnt the drafting of Beckham and Sale disprove that? They werent exactly cheap

At this point it isn't though. We actually would have to switch spending philosophy's to become a system based team. That means having big holes at the major league level that you can't try to fill through payroll.

We already have big holes at the Major League level, so it really wouldn't hurt.

Wouldnt the drafting of Beckham and Sale disprove that? They werent exactly cheap

In terms of slot recommendations, they were near slot. However, Sale they intentionally wanted at slot to sign early with the intention of bringing him up that year, thus costing the team more in the long run -- something for which I commend the organization.

 

Still the Sox spend near last in the MLB Draft overall and probably the same in the foreign free agent market. You can build via free agency all you want and have sporadic success, but if you draft and develop, you can remain relevant for many years.

The White Sox haven't drafted well in recent years, so you have to go outside the organization if you want to win. Beckham and Sale were 2 guys anyone on Soxtalk could have drafted. Its about time the White Sox scouting department comes up with a 5th round gem.

We already have big holes at the Major League level, so it really wouldn't hurt.

 

You are ignoring the fact that the team has spent money to try to fill those holes.

The White Sox haven't drafted well in recent years, so you have to go outside the organization if you want to win. Beckham and Sale were 2 guys anyone on Soxtalk could have drafted. Its about time the White Sox scouting department comes up with a 5th round gem.

 

Had one. Traded him away because our GM got played by another.