2011 White Sox Catch-All Thread

[Balta1701]

I mentioned this in a different thread a while back, but outside of the injury concerns and terribly streaky offensive output, his defense leaves a lot to be desired and he's not getting any younger or cheaper.

You know the amazing thing? Carlos's defense has probably been the most reliable this year out of any of our OF's not named Brent Lillibridge. UZR actually likes Carlos's RF defense this year and thinks he's been slightly above average, for example.

[Paulstar]

You know the amazing thing? Carlos's defense has probably been the most reliable this year out of any of our OF's not named Brent Lillibridge. UZR actually likes Carlos's RF defense this year and thinks he's been slightly above average, for example.

I'm actually surprised that outside of Pierre's dropped balls early on, the outfield defense hasn't come back to bite this team in the ass more often.

[Balta1701]

I'm actually surprised that outside of Pierre's dropped balls early on, the outfield defense hasn't come back to bite this team in the ass more often.

I think it actually has...it just doesn't show up as unearned runs. I think Rios cost us a few runs with a play he should have made the week before the AS break, for example.

 

OF's don't get credited for errors on broken plays nearly as often as IF's do.

[Paulstar]

I think it actually has...it just doesn't show up as unearned runs. I think Rios cost us a few runs with a play he should have made the week before the AS break, for example.

 

OF's don't get credited for errors on broken plays nearly as often as IF's do.

I agree, but I still think we've gotten lucky with the outfield D.

 

It also helps that the Cell might have the easiest outfield the play in all of the majors.

Edited July 20, 2011 by Paulstar

[oldsox]

I'm actually surprised that outside of Pierre's dropped balls early on, the outfield defense hasn't come back to bite this team in the ass more often.

Have you forgotten about Lillibridge's sleepwalking play in CF in Colorado? Yes, the same Lillibridge who is the offensive juggernaut Ozzie used to replace Dunn in the Tuesday lineup against the KC lefty.

[Paulstar]

Have you forgotten about Lillibridge's sleepwalking play in CF in Colorado? Yes, the same Lillibridge who is the offensive juggernaut Ozzie used to replace Dunn in the Tuesday lineup against the KC lefty.

No, but the point I was trying to make is that as bad as the outfield defense is, I dont think it has cost as many games as it probably should have. I'm going just off my head here, but I'd say outfield D has cost us at least 5 games for sure, which is still terrible, but not as terrible as some of the previous outfields we have seen in Chicago.

[elrockinMT]

Mental lapses in the field have hurt us as much, but not as much, as the inconsistent offense and poor running game. The offense needs to be shaken up. But, I do get a bit exasperated at relief pitchers brought in the get the first hitter out in a tight situation and they fail. That's what they are supposed to do- get the first guy out not the second guy first. No good if a run scores and then they settle down. I guess there is plenty of blame to go around for us not being in 1st place. Amazing we are only 4 1/2 back

[TheBlackSox8]

No, but the point I was trying to make is that as bad as the outfield defense is, I dont think it has cost as many games as it probably should have. I'm going just off my head here, but I'd say outfield D has cost us at least 5 games for sure, which is still terrible, but not as terrible as some of the previous outfields we have seen in Chicago.

It has also won some games as well

[witesoxfan]

With the salary committment this year and the inconsistent play...yeah, I bet KW cuts the cord if he's 7 back on July 28.

 

I think BECAUSE of the salary commitment this year, you'd be crazy to think that Williams would sell off parts if they're 7 back on July 28th. There isn't a significant amount of money to be saved by trading away expiring contracts and money that can be saved next year can be just as easily dealt in the offseason.

 

I think they are going to have to be about 6 games below .500, perhaps with Peavy injured again and another starter down to really get the ball rolling on it. I think they'll let this team give it one last hurrah, we'll see them stumble down the stretch like has become accustomed in the Ozzie era, and he'll end up in Florida next year (while hopefully taking his entire coaching staff, sans Cooper).

[spiderman]

I think BECAUSE of the salary commitment this year, you'd be crazy to think that Williams would sell off parts if they're 7 back on July 28th. There isn't a significant amount of money to be saved by trading away expiring contracts and money that can be saved next year can be just as easily dealt in the offseason.

 

I think they are going to have to be about 6 games below .500, perhaps with Peavy injured again and another starter down to really get the ball rolling on it. I think they'll let this team give it one last hurrah, we'll see them stumble down the stretch like has become accustomed in the Ozzie era, and he'll end up in Florida next year (while hopefully taking his entire coaching staff, sans Cooper).

 

Does this team deserve one last hurrah? They have shown through about 100 games to be roughly a .500 caliber team in a bad division.

 

It's tough to give up in this division, but does trading Edwin Jackson and/or Carlos Quentin mean that they are?

 

Should Williams re-tool some (moving Jackson and/or Quentin) to add perhaps 2-3 quality prospects that can help the team next season (plus Viceido) at a low cost? Remember, this team is still going to be hampered by Dunn, Rios and Peavy's contract's so the White Sox, with their attendance down as well, are going to have to find ways to be creative.

 

As I have mentioned in other threads, the White Sox could argue that moving Jackson, and moving back to a 5 man rotation, makes the rotation stronger for the remainder of the season. The starter's innings are currently down, and although they are banking on Peavy staying healthy, they could go to a 4 man rotation come September.

 

In my opinion, if they can land 2 (or maybe 3 if I can daydream) B level prospects for Jackson and Quentin, I make the move.

[Eminor3rd]

Someone just told me Betemit to Tigers. Phew, I was afraid they were going to get a serious bat.

[Steve9347]

Someone just told me Betemit to Tigers. Phew, I was afraid they were going to get a serious bat.

Yup, I posted it about 10 minutes ago in "The Diamond Club".

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Any one know how to write to KW ? It's time we had a heart to heart.

[Steve9347]

Any one know how to write to KW ? It's time we had a heart to heart.

traderkenny@chisox.com

[southsider2k5]

Any one know how to write to KW ? It's time we had a heart to heart.

 

Don't waste your time.

[Kyyle23]

traderkenny@chisox.com

 

oh. dick allen told me it was traitorkenny@chisox.com. weird.

[oldsox]

Does this team deserve one last hurrah? They have shown through about 100 games to be roughly a .500 caliber team in a bad division.

 

It's tough to give up in this division, but does trading Edwin Jackson and/or Carlos Quentin mean that they are?

 

Should Williams re-tool some (moving Jackson and/or Quentin) to add perhaps 2-3 quality prospects that can help the team next season (plus Viceido) at a low cost? Remember, this team is still going to be hampered by Dunn, Rios and Peavy's contract's so the White Sox, with their attendance down as well, are going to have to find ways to be creative.

 

As I have mentioned in other threads, the White Sox could argue that moving Jackson, and moving back to a 5 man rotation, makes the rotation stronger for the remainder of the season. The starter's innings are currently down, and although they are banking on Peavy staying healthy, they could go to a 4 man rotation come September.

 

In my opinion, if they can land 2 (or maybe 3 if I can daydream) B level prospects for Jackson and Quentin, I make the move.

I agree. Move those two guys, get prospects, promote Viciedo. Also do something with Lillibridge -- DeAza must be a better player -- AJ?? I have no idea of his trade value and he is a 5/10 guy, but I bet he would waive it. This team is going to be a 23 man roster equivelent next year. Offer Mark a contract for next year, see what he does. I watched game last night, that is one boring team. Painful.

[elrockinMT]

Same old stuff about who to trade. I see some issues with people not performing, but I don't see the need to retool the whole team. 3B is an issue, DH is an issue and LF and CF are issues. Pitching is not the issue so much, but that's who you always hear is our trade bait. We trade our strength and keep playing with our weaknesses? Read Phil Rogers today and our only trading partner is the Cubs apparently. What we need is more of Ozzie Guillen kicking some people in the seat of the pants and motivating them to be team players with the bats. How many of us here really thought Adam Dunn would be such a dismal failure at DH? I am not sure he would have been any better with the bat playing in the OF full time. I would like to see Viciedo up too, but is this the second coming? I don't know, but Kenny has to do something to get this offense motivated. Omar Vizquel getting caught off second base again and ruining a possible rally? A wild pitch to lose the game! Ozzie Guillen getting socked by a foul ball, which is all the TV highlights show! What more indignities will visit this team? How much more will thse guys suffer through and still give you the old tired lines of "You got to hand it to that (Insert here) that rookie, that crafty old veteran, that soft tossing junk ball pitcher, etc, etc? I still think we can win, but at this point not becasue of the drive of our players, but because the Tigers and Indian are letting us stay close.

Edited July 21, 2011 by elrockinMT

[WHarris1]

It's extremely sickening when you read a quotes from someone like AJ on last nights game saying he thought the team played well. Come. On.

Edited July 21, 2011 by WHarris1

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Don't waste your time.

I wouldn't consider it a waste of time. I would be very cordial though I wouldn't expect a response.

[dyuen]

Any one know how to write to KW ? It's time we had a heart to heart.

Yes but I am pretty sure it would be a bad idea for me to post that on the board.

[kwolf68]

It's extremely sickening when you read a quotes from someone like AJ on last nights game saying he thought the team played well. Come. On.

 

 

LOL...they did not play well...they went through the motions.

 

Danks was a bulldog on the mound, Moral made some fine plays in the field (although the one floater to PK was confusing), but otherwise the team looked like a very below average team.

 

The hitting is the most mind-boggling thing...balls aren't even being hit hard. It's one thing if guys are having great swings as you know they'll maybe break out of it, but a lot of these guys look over matched and last night it was against Bruce Chen, not Roy Halladay. AJ and Paulie I thought were terrible hitting.

 

And you can tell this is getting to Paulie...his team sucks, he is now scuffling a bit and last night on a close foul ball play (I personally think it was a good call) Konerko wouldn't really let it go. He usually gets over things a lot easier...this crap team is grinding him down. A winning streak better happen or there may be full scale meltdown on this team.

Edited July 21, 2011 by kwolf68

[spiderman]

I agree. Move those two guys, get prospects, promote Viciedo. Also do something with Lillibridge -- DeAza must be a better player -- AJ?? I have no idea of his trade value and he is a 5/10 guy, but I bet he would waive it. This team is going to be a 23 man roster equivelent next year. Offer Mark a contract for next year, see what he does. I watched game last night, that is one boring team. Painful.

 

If the White Sox need to be creative next season with their payroll, which I would expect to be reduced with Jackson and Pierre (and possibly Buerhle) coming off the books (I think that's about $12 million, but closer to $10 since the Sox weren't paying all of Pierre's contract)...although if they choose to resign Buerhle, a lot of the money (and then some possibly) saved from Jackson/Pierre would go into him. Assuming that there is a small increase between resigning Buerhle and losing Jackson/Pierre, it's still possible (and maybe likely) that Williams will need to shed additional salary to meet next year's budget and/or to attempt at improving the team. That could mean Quentin still gets moved in the off-season. The same could be said of Danks.

[Balta1701]

If the White Sox need to be creative next season with their payroll, which I would expect to be reduced with Jackson and Pierre (and possibly Buerhle) coming off the books (I think that's about $12 million, but closer to $10 since the Sox weren't paying all of Pierre's contract)...although if they choose to resign Buerhle, a lot of the money (and then some possibly) saved from Jackson/Pierre would go into him. Assuming that there is a small increase between resigning Buerhle and losing Jackson/Pierre, it's still possible (and maybe likely) that Williams will need to shed additional salary to meet next year's budget and/or to attempt at improving the team. That could mean Quentin still gets moved in the off-season. The same could be said of Danks.

If the Sox know they need to shed payroll...I'd say they're much more likely to get high value offers for Danks and Quentin right now than they would be in the offseason. Teams trading for them would get them for 2 pennant races instead of 1, and the Sox would save an extra couple million on this season's salary.

[spiderman]

If the Sox know they need to shed payroll...I'd say they're much more likely to get high value offers for Danks and Quentin right now than they would be in the offseason. Teams trading for them would get them for 2 pennant races instead of 1, and the Sox would save an extra couple million on this season's salary.

 

I think they should trade Jackson (assuming they can get a B level prospect back), but probably won't because they still believe they can/will catch fire in a bad division. If they decide to move a pitcher, it'll be just one, and although Danks would bring back quite a bit, I think it would be Jackson. They may also be trying/willing to work out a longer term deal with Danks, and possibly want to give it another shot this off-season, but that's just my speculation. If they trade Jackson now, and don't have to pay for him to leave, they would probably save around $3 million as well.