LittleHurt05 Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 QUOTE (since56 @ Mar 30, 2011 -> 08:07 AM) Clayton Richard or Gio Gonzales No thanks on Richard. Who are we gonna trade to Oakland for Gio? Any package they would ask for would be too much I bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenksycat Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Mar 30, 2011 -> 10:16 AM) No thanks on Richard. Who are we gonna trade to Oakland for Gio? Any package they would ask for would be too much I bet. I believe that was sarcasm...a shot at KW for trading them away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Mar 30, 2011 -> 11:50 AM) I believe that was sarcasm...a shot at KW for trading them away. Yeah, I caught that. My response was a subtle attempt to say that this a discussion about the present/future of the team, not a place to b**** about past trades AGAIN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenksycat Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Mar 30, 2011 -> 12:05 PM) Yeah, I caught that. My response was a subtle attempt to say that this a discussion about the present/future of the team, not a place to b**** about past trades AGAIN. Just think though, Aaron Poreda could be our ace right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Mar 30, 2011 -> 12:21 PM) Just think though, Aaron Poreda could be our ace right now No way, he'd be in the bullpen. The Sox will get him in the rotation next year. Seriously, with that many weaknesses, they aren't NOT going to put him in the rotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Mar 30, 2011 -> 12:21 PM) Just think though, Aaron Poreda could be our ace right now And Brandon Allen could be the starting 1B in Charlotte, instead of in Reno. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Just to clarify, I don´t expect KW to win every single trade, or to select every prospect that pans out or turns into a stud. I just believe that this team would have had much better results since 2005 if they had been drafting better, and even though they are doing a better job, they still have a huge room for improvement. Some people may think I am just nitpicking or finding something to complain about, but I see this as a legitimate reason for why the Sox have not strung consecutive good seasons together. Maybe I am spoiled since Im only 21, but I want the Sox to succeed year in and year out, and this is a good way to help with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 MB is just over .500 since signing his last deal and is no better than a number 3 starter at best anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Mar 30, 2011 -> 01:54 PM) Just to clarify, I don´t expect KW to win every single trade, or to select every prospect that pans out or turns into a stud. I just believe that this team would have had much better results since 2005 if they had been drafting better, and even though they are doing a better job, they still have a huge room for improvement. Some people may think I am just nitpicking or finding something to complain about, but I see this as a legitimate reason for why the Sox have not strung consecutive good seasons together. Maybe I am spoiled since Im only 21, but I want the Sox to succeed year in and year out, and this is a good way to help with that. Dude but they have for 10 years now! It's hard to draft can't miss guys when you finish above .500 every single year. The one year we didn't finish around .500 we got Beckham! Since they changed their drafting philosophy we've picked Poreda, Beckham, Mitchell and Sale. Would you rather be worrying about Rick Porcello and Clay Richard this year than have Peavy? I mean that was the big gripe at the time, taking Poreda over Porcello. We basically gave the Pads nothing for Peavy. I'm ok with how the drafting has been going the last few years; we just gotta wait for the fruits to ripen some more. It's also very possible that after this year our system looks stacked again. Guys develop out of nowhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenksycat Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Mar 30, 2011 -> 01:54 PM) Just to clarify, I don´t expect KW to win every single trade, or to select every prospect that pans out or turns into a stud. I just believe that this team would have had much better results since 2005 if they had been drafting better, and even though they are doing a better job, they still have a huge room for improvement. Some people may think I am just nitpicking or finding something to complain about, but I see this as a legitimate reason for why the Sox have not strung consecutive good seasons together. Maybe I am spoiled since Im only 21, but I want the Sox to succeed year in and year out, and this is a good way to help with that. As long as KW keeps flipping "prospects" for MLB ready talent, I couldn't care less how we "draft". I consider any draft pick we turn into a Danks or Floyd to be a great pick. People put too much focus on the farm, this isn't the NFL, you can have a perfectly fine team without having them be 95% internal. We have draft picks: Beckham, Morel, Sale, and Alexei (debatable as a "draft" pick I guess)....and Danks, Floyd, Jackson, Peavy, Quentin acquired with recent draft picks all playing a huge roll on the team this year. I don't see anything wrong with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatnom Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Mar 30, 2011 -> 03:20 PM) As long as KW keeps flipping "prospects" for MLB ready talent, I couldn't care less how we "draft". I consider any draft pick we turn into a Danks or Floyd to be a great pick. People put too much focus on the farm, this isn't the NFL, you can have a perfectly fine team without having them be 95% internal. We have draft picks: Beckham, Morel, Sale, and Alexei (debatable as a "draft" pick I guess)....and Danks, Floyd, Jackson, Peavy, Quentin acquired with recent draft picks all playing a huge roll on the team this year. I don't see anything wrong with that. Yes, the people who criticize those who point out that drafting and development as an organizational weakness do put too much focus on the farm. None of us want to be the Kansas City Royals. None of us care about whether or not we have the best farm. None of us care that if we put our major league team in Charlotte that we would have the best farm system in the game. Despite the typical responses we get, none of us actually care about any of that. What we do care about is that we could take a tiny fraction of our major league payroll and significantly increase the talent in our system, which can either be used to acquire more talent via trades or can be promoted to cheaply fill out our roster. Also, this allows us to not be completely barren after KW trades a couple prospects away. As an organization, the Sox cannot afford to continuously resign our players and fill all our other holes with good free agents. This leaves us with two options: either KW starts winning more trades like he used to (Floyd, Danks, TCQ, etc.) or we start getting better players in the draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Mar 29, 2011 -> 10:42 PM) I do absolutely love Viciedo. It's hard for me to even think of someone with a bat that quick with so much strength behind it. The first thought that pops into my head is Cecil Fielder but I don't foresee Viciedo adding that much weight. Jose Guillen actually isn't a terrible comparison, but I think Viciedo is going to hit for a higher average and a bit more power than that too. If I had to give a range, I'd say anywhere between an .850-.950 OPS during his peak years - anywhere from .300/.350/.500 to .325/.375/.575 (with some wiggle room in-between). If Quentin wants to start for the White Sox next year, he really needs to bring his A-game because Viciedo is going to be knocking on the door. And for your personal sake, he better have a good year because I could easily see the Sox resigning Pierre on a 1-year deal to bridge the gap to Mitchell or whomever with Viciedo taking over in RF in 2012 if he does not. Nice to see some support for Viciedo. Somewhere around a year ago I said Viciedo could be an impact bat and compared his upside to another player. Can't remember who I said ,maybe Pujols ,but I was critiqued mightily . Ok Pujols is a stretch I admit that but seriously thought he could and can be a high average and power bat. 6 months ago I suggested Viciedo in right and was also panned . I know he has yet to much of anything but his play in right this spring and continued development with the bats sure does make me smile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chetkincaid Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Mar 30, 2011 -> 03:20 PM) As long as KW keeps flipping "prospects" for MLB ready talent, I couldn't care less how we "draft". I consider any draft pick we turn into a Danks or Floyd to be a great pick. People put too much focus on the farm, this isn't the NFL, you can have a perfectly fine team without having them be 95% internal. We have draft picks: Beckham, Morel, Sale, and Alexei (debatable as a "draft" pick I guess)....and Danks, Floyd, Jackson, Peavy, Quentin acquired with recent draft picks all playing a huge roll on the team this year. I don't see anything wrong with that. This should be highlighted. I agree 100%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted March 30, 2011 Author Share Posted March 30, 2011 QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Mar 30, 2011 -> 02:40 PM) Dude but they have for 10 years now! It's hard to draft can't miss guys when you finish above .500 every single year. The one year we didn't finish around .500 we got Beckham! Since they changed their drafting philosophy we've picked Poreda, Beckham, Mitchell and Sale. Would you rather be worrying about Rick Porcello and Clay Richard this year than have Peavy? I mean that was the big gripe at the time, taking Poreda over Porcello. We basically gave the Pads nothing for Peavy. I'm ok with how the drafting has been going the last few years; we just gotta wait for the fruits to ripen some more. It's also very possible that after this year our system looks stacked again. Guys develop out of nowhere. And we've basically gotten nothing in return. The Red Sox and Braves have long debunked the myth that a top 5 pick is essential in acquiring elite talent. The players are there if you scout well and spend some coin. And while we've gotten better, as there was nowhere to go but up, recently with our first round picks (though Mitchell instead of Trout is looking really bad right now), we're still lacking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 QUOTE (Soxfest @ Mar 30, 2011 -> 02:27 PM) MB is just over .500 since signing his last deal and is no better than a number 3 starter at best anymore. I still can't believe this guy has lasted 8 years without getting banned Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Mar 30, 2011 -> 04:53 PM) I still can't believe this guy has lasted 8 years without getting banned He's pretty much the homeless guy on the corner who screams at cars about the end of the world... No one really takes him seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted March 31, 2011 Author Share Posted March 31, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Mar 30, 2011 -> 04:53 PM) I still can't believe this guy has lasted 8 years without getting banned He's good like that. He's a joke of a poster yet he never says anything ban worthy. I've probably spit out more ban worthy material and I'm ten times the poster he/she is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Mar 30, 2011 -> 05:53 PM) I still can't believe this guy has lasted 8 years without getting banned QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 30, 2011 -> 08:15 PM) He's pretty much the homeless guy on the corner who screams at cars about the end of the world... No one really takes him seriously. QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Mar 30, 2011 -> 08:41 PM) He's good like that. He's a joke of a poster yet he never says anything ban worthy. I've probably spit out more ban worthy material and I'm ten times the poster he/she is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 31, 2011 -> 12:15 AM) He's pretty much the homeless guy on the corner who screams at cars about the end of the world... No one really takes him seriously. Whom are we talkin bout? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Mar 30, 2011 -> 02:40 PM) Dude but they have for 10 years now! It's hard to draft can't miss guys when you finish above .500 every single year. The one year we didn't finish around .500 we got Beckham! Since they changed their drafting philosophy we've picked Poreda, Beckham, Mitchell and Sale. Would you rather be worrying about Rick Porcello and Clay Richard this year than have Peavy? I mean that was the big gripe at the time, taking Poreda over Porcello. We basically gave the Pads nothing for Peavy. I'm ok with how the drafting has been going the last few years; we just gotta wait for the fruits to ripen some more. It's also very possible that after this year our system looks stacked again. Guys develop out of nowhere. 3 playoff appearances in 10 years when you play in the AL Central and have the largest payroll most years is not what I consider consistently being in it. Plus the Sox have had those deep down years recently. We'll need quite a few breakout season from our prospects to even consider to have any depth in the system, even most of the biggest optimists when it comes to our farm system know that we have very few impact prospects. And I said before, they have improved in drafting, I just don't think what they have done is enough to supplement KW's style. QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Mar 30, 2011 -> 03:20 PM) As long as KW keeps flipping "prospects" for MLB ready talent, I couldn't care less how we "draft". I consider any draft pick we turn into a Danks or Floyd to be a great pick. People put too much focus on the farm, this isn't the NFL, you can have a perfectly fine team without having them be 95% internal. We have draft picks: Beckham, Morel, Sale, and Alexei (debatable as a "draft" pick I guess)....and Danks, Floyd, Jackson, Peavy, Quentin acquired with recent draft picks all playing a huge roll on the team this year. I don't see anything wrong with that. This type of attitude is what leads to the Sox not putting out a consistent contender (I don't consider a 3rd place or lower finish in the AL Central a "contender"). And although that list is somewhat impressive (to be able to find guys like Floyd, Danks, etc) where has it taken us? They haven't even won a playoff series with that team, and only made the playoffs once with the players they've acquired since 2005. Just look at what they had to do with the payroll, they spiked it up to $125 mill to fill holes, and they still don't have depth t many key areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Mar 31, 2011 -> 06:08 AM) And although that list is somewhat impressive (to be able to find guys like Floyd, Danks, etc) where has it taken us? They haven't even won a playoff series with that team, and only made the playoffs once with the players they've acquired since 2005. Just look at what they had to do with the payroll, they spiked it up to $125 mill to fill holes, and they still don't have depth t many key areas. In my mind, the only area that the White Sox don't have sufficient depth is for the starting pitching staff, and that's quite clearly felt with Humber starting the year in the rotation. I think there are a couple of medium upside arms starting in Birmingham that may be able to come up and give the Sox a good start or two if need be. I'm hoping it's Rienzo. Beyond that, the White Sox generally do have a solid injury replacement at most positions. C - Castro/Flowers 1B - Dunn/Viciedo/Teahen 2B - Vizquel/Escobar 3B - Vizquel/Viciedo SS - Vizquel/Escobar LF - Teahen/Viciedo/Milledge/De Aza CF - Milledge/De Aza RF - Teahen/Viciedo/Milledge/De Aza DH - every single person above As far as bullpen arms are concerned, the Sox have Anthony Carter and Gregory Infante who are both very close to being ready and, in fact, I think it's very possible that Infante is a better option than even Pena at this point, but the Sox believe in Pena, he does have a bit more experience, Infante is still raw yet, and he has options, whereas the Sox have already guaranteed about $2 mill to Pena. On top of that, Infante would have been the last man out of the pen this year, and in Ozzie's bullpen, he wants that to be a guy who can go multiple innings while doing what can be done to keep the team in the game. That is nowhere near Infante's style. I don't worry about the actual "depth" of this team because they, like most teams, have capable short-term replacements in the wings. My concern is the prospect of those replacement players actually developing into some type of good, consistent, everyday player. Of those I listed above in that depth chart, I see only two guys that I have confidence in going forward, and one of those - Escobar - is completely blocked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted March 31, 2011 Author Share Posted March 31, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Mar 31, 2011 -> 06:08 AM) 3 playoff appearances in 10 years when you play in the AL Central and have the largest payroll most years is not what I consider consistently being in it. Plus the Sox have had those deep down years recently. We'll need quite a few breakout season from our prospects to even consider to have any depth in the system, even most of the biggest optimists when it comes to our farm system know that we have very few impact prospects. And I said before, they have improved in drafting, I just don't think what they have done is enough to supplement KW's style. This type of attitude is what leads to the Sox not putting out a consistent contender (I don't consider a 3rd place or lower finish in the AL Central a "contender"). And although that list is somewhat impressive (to be able to find guys like Floyd, Danks, etc) where has it taken us? They haven't even won a playoff series with that team, and only made the playoffs once with the players they've acquired since 2005. Just look at what they had to do with the payroll, they spiked it up to $125 mill to fill holes, and they still don't have depth t many key areas. Wait, you mean the Sox' regular season winning % in comparison to the 80's doesn't tickle your fancy? It's all about October. Not World Series titles. But consistently putting yourself in position to capture said titles. And you actually gave KW credit for one division title he played no part in (2000). KW is 2/10. Edited March 31, 2011 by Jordan4life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenksycat Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Mar 31, 2011 -> 06:08 AM) 3 playoff appearances in 10 years when you play in the AL Central and have the largest payroll most years is not what I consider consistently being in it. Plus the Sox have had those deep down years recently. We'll need quite a few breakout season from our prospects to even consider to have any depth in the system, even most of the biggest optimists when it comes to our farm system know that we have very few impact prospects. And I said before, they have improved in drafting, I just don't think what they have done is enough to supplement KW's style. This type of attitude is what leads to the Sox not putting out a consistent contender (I don't consider a 3rd place or lower finish in the AL Central a "contender"). And although that list is somewhat impressive (to be able to find guys like Floyd, Danks, etc) where has it taken us? They haven't even won a playoff series with that team, and only made the playoffs once with the players they've acquired since 2005. Just look at what they had to do with the payroll, they spiked it up to $125 mill to fill holes, and they still don't have depth t many key areas. How many playoff series' have the almighty Twins and their invincible "farm" won? (I'm assuming everyone here would cry tears of joy if we had the Twins system) Neither team is doing it 100% right, and just as you don't think we're consistent contenders, I don't think the Twins are either. Wining the division then getting demolished in the playoffs every year isn't a contender in my opinion. As a couple writers have said, the Sox are extremely volatile, we'll either be incredible or huge underachievers with nothing in the middle. I'm fine with that strategy as long as they are doing everything possible to fill huge holes (Dunn>Kotsay) and gambling on having a legit WS contender vs building the Twins version of a "contender". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Mar 31, 2011 -> 08:56 AM) How many playoff series' have the almighty Twins and their invincible "farm" won? (I'm assuming everyone here would cry tears of joy if we had the Twins system) Neither team is doing it 100% right, and just as you don't think we're consistent contenders, I don't think the Twins are either. Wining the division then getting demolished in the playoffs every year isn't a contender in my opinion. As a couple writers have said, the Sox are extremely volatile, we'll either be incredible or huge underachievers with nothing in the middle. I'm fine with that strategy as long as they are doing everything possible to fill huge holes (Dunn>Kotsay) and gambling on having a legit WS contender vs building the Twins version of a "contender". It gets tiring having to constantly fall back on the fact that the Twins never do anything. It reminds me of all of the years where the Sox had no chance, but we kept our hope afloat because the Cubs were also really bad. It's actually kind of sad. No matter how you cut it, we've only made the playoffs twice in ten years. With the payroll we've had in comparison to the competition, plus the greater amount of talent we've seemingly had, it's not very good to only have two appearances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 31, 2011 Share Posted March 31, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Mar 31, 2011 -> 10:58 AM) No matter how you cut it, we've only made the playoffs twice in ten years. With the payroll we've had in comparison to the competition, plus the greater amount of talent we've seemingly had, it's not very good to only have two appearances. In a 5 team division with everything equal, you should make the playoffs 1 time in 5 years, 2 times in 10 years, and 3 times in 15 years. The White Sox have made the playoffs 3 times in 11 years. Yes, they're behind the Twins in that regard. They're still above average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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