southsider2k5 Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 QUOTE (Swingandalongonetoleft @ Apr 25, 2011 -> 12:20 PM) For every example of a team firing a manager during the season and then succeeding you can probably find 10 teams who started slow, stuck with their manager, and succeeded anyway. The reason the team is losing games is because it isn't hitting like it should. That falls on the shoulder's of the guys with the bats, not Ozzie Guillen. starting with the Sox last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 25, 2011 -> 12:21 PM) starting with the Sox last year. You call 2010 a success? I have higher expectations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emoney Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 I've been against Ozzie for a few years. He certainly knows baseball, but it's pretty clear that he can't get people to play for him. It's not a fluke, I think that he completely mishandled Slring Training the past few years. All we ever heard was, "We're not doing so well now, but things will come around when the season starts." Well, the season started and our adrenaline got us through the first few games, but then the players have shown that they're comletely unprepared and overmatched. When watching games, it's pretty evident that our team just isn't as good as the opponents. The Tampa series was the worst display of baseball that I've seen in a long time. Firing Ozzie probably won't result in a winning season, but he needs to go regardless. Having said all that, if I owned the Sox, I'd drop Dunn, Teahen, maybe Pierre, maybe AJ, and a few pitchers. I just can't imagine that there will be the ticket sales to support "All In" and the team can't afford to have a bad year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 QUOTE (ChrisLikesBaseball @ Apr 24, 2011 -> 07:20 PM) I'd hope I could find some rational thoughts on what's become a really reactive and irrational message board that sometimes shows signs of being an intelligent grouping of baseball knowledge. Then I'd realize that if there's a rough stretch, everyone wants someone fired, just so the team can keep doing the same thing, with a different over-paid, face in the locker room. Translation: nobody will ever lose their jobs no matter what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 QUOTE (T R U @ Apr 24, 2011 -> 08:41 PM) So? I don't care about this site, I care about whats on the field.. This is just a great place (most of the time) to talk about the Sox, but some people make it unbearable.. Maybe those will be the ones who are gone! If they are done then they can dismantle or do whatever in July.. I still don't know why people want people fired right now and people traded/released whatever in fn April.. there are a LOT of things that can happen, and if they are still a failure come late June-July, then yeah I expect changes to be made.. but until then they deserve a chance to right the ship with the "All-In" mentality that went into this year.. For the love of Christ, many of us have been asking for someone to be fired for years. IT ISN'T JUST ABOUT THIS APRIL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Apr 24, 2011 -> 09:59 PM) Who? Who is going to succeed Guillen? Initially they'd bring in Cora on an interim basis and then who knows who they bring in. The only guy I can ever think of that got fired midseason and the team went on to succeed was Torborg in 2003 being replaced by McKeon. 1 time out of the hundreds of others doesn't seem to be good, especially when it's a veteran ballclub like this. If s*** doesn't work this year, you make wholesale changes next year. Seems simple enough to me. That's been said a few times over the years. These changes never come. It's entirely reasonable to hold somebody accountable during this season. It doesn't have to be Ozzie, but somebody needs to take the fall for this horrendous start. I'm not sure people understand just how bad this start is. Reinsdorf is probably pulling his hair out. We've pumped this payroll up higher than it's ever been. We were told that it would be completely necessary to draw a lot of fans to help support the inflated payroll. And because of the necessity to draw fans, the team would have to come out strong from the get-go unlike their normal routine of taking April off. Not only have they not done well, they have the second-worst record in the entire sport. They are basically assured to not draw fans throughout May at this point. This means that they will have to draw a lot of people to the games for the remaining four months. The only way that will happen is if the team turns it around in a big way. Somebody will be the sacrificial lamb this season. I mean, it has to happen and it will be completely justified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 QUOTE (La Marr Hoyt HOF @ Apr 25, 2011 -> 12:31 AM) We have been saying this for years ... Honestly, why not replace Ozzie at this point? It can't get any worse regardless of who they choose. Besides, why do the fans care about having a manager who the "players like playing for (so long as you don't ask any alumni)" or continuing to accept a manager who has led high talent / high payroll teams to success so rarely, especially in a relatively weak division? Bring in an a hole to shake-up the place to see if they can get something going to save this year, if not shop during the offseason for a new staff... Not showing-up or in the words of the Tigers broadcasters "not being there" is 100% Ozzie's fault. He should be fired alone for the ridiculously s#itty team he put on the field today. Why continue to back this guy when he has done nothing to justify his role in recent years and has done plenty to force people to question his judgement and management style? Just saying, it's broken, what do we have to lose by going in a new direction? I love you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 QUOTE (11and1 @ Apr 25, 2011 -> 01:04 AM) Throw Ozzie under a real bus, with KW driving and all the players on board. Rinse and repeat with Greg Walker. Spend whatever it takes to hire a no-BS manager who commands respect and demands maximum effort every day. (See the Bulls pre and post Thibodeau and the Blackhawks pre and post Quennville.) He doesn't need to be fun or interesting or a fan favorite, and he should be way too busy trying to win to spend time tweeting. Ozzie lost the team a while ago and it's time for the team to lose Ozzie. I'm seriously getting an erection reading these last few posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 25, 2011 -> 12:21 PM) starting with the Sox last year. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scenario Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Apr 25, 2011 -> 01:23 PM) I'm seriously getting an erection reading these last few posts. You sure it's not Sqwert's new avatar causing the 'problem'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 QUOTE (scenario @ Apr 25, 2011 -> 01:30 PM) You sure it's not Sqwert's new avatar causing the 'problem'. Na, I see plenty of vaginas covered by Sox logos when I watch the games. It does nothing for me anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSqwert Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Apr 25, 2011 -> 01:35 PM) Na, I see plenty of vaginas covered by Sox logos when I watch the games. It does nothing for me anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 QUOTE (EMONEY @ Apr 25, 2011 -> 06:46 PM) I've been against Ozzie for a few years. He certainly knows baseball, but it's pretty clear that he can't get people to play for him. It's not a fluke, I think that he completely mishandled Slring Training the past few years. All we ever heard was, "We're not doing so well now, but things will come around when the season starts." Well, the season started and our adrenaline got us through the first few games, but then the players have shown that they're comletely unprepared and overmatched. When watching games, it's pretty evident that our team just isn't as good as the opponents. The Tampa series was the worst display of baseball that I've seen in a long time. Firing Ozzie probably won't result in a winning season, but he needs to go regardless. Having said all that, if I owned the Sox, I'd drop Dunn, Teahen, maybe Pierre, maybe AJ, and a few pitchers. I just can't imagine that there will be the ticket sales to support "All In" and the team can't afford to have a bad year. That's not a bad post when you read it closely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 That's not a bad post when you read it closely. It's actually an EXCELLENT post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (greg775 @ Apr 25, 2011 -> 02:29 PM) That's not a bad post when you read it closely. The problem is that Teahen, Pierre and Dunn (or Rios, or Beckham) have absolutely no value at the moment. I'm assuming the other pitcher(s) you're dumping is someone like Pena, Ohman or Thornton. It's like trying to sell shares of Titanic or Cunard Lines when everyone knows the ship's already sinking. Not the best of business practices. The devil is in the details. Over the last two or three seasons, every GM in baseball wanted to get their hands on Quentin (2008 and again in 2010), Alexei, Beckham, Thornton, Danks, Floyd, Buehrle (playoff contenders), Dunn (before his appendectomy), Konerko, Rios (first half of 2010), Santos or Sale. Think of it like the mortgage holders who are underwater. Do you just leave your keys in the mailbox and walk away or assume your investment will never turn around and instead of selling for 60-75 cents on the dollar, you end up selling for 20-30-40? As we all know from 2007, if the White Sox had dumped Buehrle/Dye/Konerko/Thome at that time, 2008's rebound wouldn't have been possible. For those desiring a team of DeAza, Viciedo, Mitchell, Lillibridge, Milledge, Morel, Flowers, Beckham (trade the bum!), Sale, Santos, etc., the effort might be there (not sure about Milledge ever coming around), but the patience of the fanbase at this point after a decade of "contending" or "above average" teams? Edited April 25, 2011 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 If I ran the White Sox I would be patient and not listen to us crazies on Soxtalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
typewritermender Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Fire Ozzie & Walker, make Vizquel a player/manager & make Frank Thomas hitting coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Wedmesday Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 QUOTE (typewritermender @ Apr 25, 2011 -> 05:42 PM) Fire Ozzie & Walker, make Vizquel a player/manager & make Frank Thomas hitting coach. ^ This, during the seventh inning stretch tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
typewritermender Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Also make Santos our closer, Thornton our SU, move Humber to the pen and give Sale a shot at a start or 2 before Peavy gets back. And stop using that stupid Sunday lineup. And never give Konerko a full day off (DH is fine) unless we've won at least 5 games in a row. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 QUOTE (typewritermender @ Apr 25, 2011 -> 07:07 PM) Also make Santos our closer, Thornton our SU, move Humber to the pen and give Sale a shot at a start or 2 before Peavy gets back. And stop using that stupid Sunday lineup. And never give Konerko a full day off (DH is fine) unless we've won at least 5 games in a row. Man, Konerko's going to be exhausted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxrwhite Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 QUOTE (Swingandalongonetoleft @ Apr 25, 2011 -> 12:20 PM) For every example of a team firing a manager during the season and then succeeding you can probably find 10 teams who started slow, stuck with their manager, and succeeded anyway. The reason the team is losing games is because it isn't hitting like it should. That falls on the shoulder's of the guys with the bats, not Ozzie Guillen. Under this reasoning a manager is not needed. Only guys with bats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Extend Phil Humber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gooch Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 QUOTE (since56 @ Apr 25, 2011 -> 07:40 PM) Under this reasoning a manager is not needed. Only guys with bats. No, under this reasoning the manager is not being held accountable for his lineup not hitting. Ozzie can't make guys hit the ball. That is the hitters and Greg Walker's job. Stop twisting people's words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 25, 2011 -> 09:29 PM) Extend Phil Humber. lol. I liked the comment in the gamethread where someone said "Sign him to a 15 year deal before this kid gets expensive". So sign him through age 43? Lol. I'm not sure everyone realized that Humber is older than Danks and Floyd, and almost as old as Peavy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 QUOTE (since56 @ Apr 25, 2011 -> 06:40 PM) Under this reasoning a manager is not needed. Only guys with bats. I doubt most managers would make that much of a difference since this is a team full of veterans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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