Balta1701 Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 QUOTE (kwolf68 @ Dec 29, 2011 -> 12:36 AM) Right now so much of this scenario depends on a player with 22 innings above A-ball level. EVERY team has some prospect who is the 2nd coming...in fact, most organizations have several of those guys. When in reality, most don't make it...but we have ONE guy and low and behold, he's gonna make it. That's why we keep Cooper around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted December 29, 2011 Author Share Posted December 29, 2011 QUOTE (kwolf68 @ Dec 28, 2011 -> 11:36 PM) Right now so much of this scenario depends on a player with 22 innings above A-ball level. EVERY team has some prospect who is the 2nd coming...in fact, most organizations have several of those guys. When in reality, most don't make it...but we have ONE guy and low and behold, he's gonna make it. Ain't it cool though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Am I the only person on this board who thought Stewart looked good in his starts and wants to see him at least developed as a starter (I know you do Balta, just hyperbolizing)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Dec 29, 2011 -> 11:21 AM) Am I the only person on this board who thought Stewart looked good in his starts and wants to see him at least developed as a starter (I know you do Balta, just hyperbolizing)? Yay, people know what I think! Trouble is...the one guy who counts is on record saying he thinks he's a reliever. And even I have a hard time arguing against him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Dec 29, 2011 -> 10:21 AM) Am I the only person on this board who thought Stewart looked good in his starts and wants to see him at least developed as a starter (I know you do Balta, just hyperbolizing)? I want to see Stewart as a starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Dec 29, 2011 -> 04:21 PM) Am I the only person on this board who thought Stewart looked good in his starts and wants to see him at least developed as a starter (I know you do Balta, just hyperbolizing)? I thought he looked awful outside of facing a mediocre Twins lineup. He needs to start the year in AAA and prove he can be effective as a starter, as his numbers in the minors last year weren't very good. Edited December 29, 2011 by fathom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 29, 2011 -> 11:23 AM) Yay, people know what I think! Trouble is...the one guy who counts is on record saying he thinks he's a reliever. And even I have a hard time arguing against him. Even you, eh? Who are you, Mike Maddux? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 QUOTE (kwolf68 @ Dec 29, 2011 -> 02:36 AM) Right now so much of this scenario depends on a player with 22 innings above A-ball level. EVERY team has some prospect who is the 2nd coming...in fact, most organizations have several of those guys. When in reality, most don't make it...but we have ONE guy and low and behold, he's gonna make it. One more than we had 3 months ago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted December 29, 2011 Author Share Posted December 29, 2011 QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Dec 29, 2011 -> 10:53 AM) One more than we had 3 months ago Yes exactly. That's what makes it so damn cool. We don't have a White Sox prospect, but a real prospect who could crack a top 600 list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Mark Buehrle wouldn't have cracked a Top 600 list either his first couple of minor league seasons, and now he's a borderline HOF pitcher if he continues for another 5-7 years. (This is like bringing up the last two Cardinals' World Series teams as inspiration for perseverence and comebacks during a season, along with the 2005 Astros). Top 600, 100 or even Top 10 lists are great, but they don't always correlate to actually success in the major leagues, they're just predictors or indicators. We also have produced 3 everyday starters (with the Quentin trade) in Morel, Viciedo and Beckham, have picked up another starter in DeAza for free, Humber for free, Molina for free (because Santos cost virtually nothing), a potential future starter in Flowers, Zach Stewart, Addison Reed...and one of the most exciting starting prospects in baseball, Chris Sale. Alexei Ramirez is far from old and can be considered a franchise cornerstone or key trading chip. That's not exactly NOTHING. There probably aren't more than 8-10 teams in baseball who have had a similar influx of talent in their 20's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted December 29, 2011 Author Share Posted December 29, 2011 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 29, 2011 -> 03:42 PM) Mark Buehrle wouldn't have cracked a Top 600 list either his first couple of minor league seasons, and now he's a borderline HOF pitcher if he continues for another 5-7 years. (This is like bringing up the last two Cardinals' World Series teams as inspiration for perseverence and comebacks during a season, along with the 2005 Astros). Top 600, 100 or even Top 10 lists are great, but they don't always correlate to actually success in the major leagues, they're just predictors or indicators. We also have produced 3 everyday starters (with the Quentin trade) in Morel, Viciedo and Beckham, have picked up another starter in DeAza for free, Humber for free, Molina for free (because Santos cost virtually nothing), a potential future starter in Flowers, Zach Stewart, Addison Reed...and one of the most exciting starting prospects in baseball, Chris Sale. Alexei Ramirez is far from old and can be considered a franchise cornerstone or key trading chip. That's not exactly NOTHING. There probably aren't more than 8-10 teams in baseball who have had a similar influx of talent in their 20's. I hate when people complain about the farm too. Way to again put it in perspective for those who dog the system. I hope some people actually read what you just wrote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Dec 29, 2011 -> 04:23 PM) I hate when people complain about the farm too. Way to again put it in perspective for those who dog the system. I hope some people actually read what you just wrote. Is this for real? The farm is awful. Has been for a while now, and the reasons for it being bad are readily evident to anyone who cares to do some research. Caul is championing the Sox turning the 8th overall pick of the 2008 draft into an all defense no offense 2B who might be non tendered in a few seasons. Morel has had one underwhelming season and is still largely an unknown. Flowers, Stewart, and DeAza have proven nothing yet. The only prospects I see that one should brag about is Sale and Sergio in relief roles, Humber (who many are still not sold on), and Viciedo. Large influx of talent my ass. Edited December 29, 2011 by DirtySox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Dec 29, 2011 -> 05:23 PM) I hate when people complain about the farm too. Way to again put it in perspective for those who dog the system. I hope some people actually read what you just wrote. The young fans get impatient, the ones in their 20's. If you're my age, closer to 40, you've seen so many ups and downs with this organization, things are still MUCH better than they were for much of the 70's, 80's and 90's. (Cue the comment, old fans supporting the White Sox through thick and thin only allows Jerry Reinsdorf to become complacent and not put a winning team on the field or "go on the cheap," response) This team is never as bad as it seems, it's always darkest before the dawn, etc., and the 2000, 2005 and 2008 seasons all proved we could come out of nowhere to surprise skeptics. Usually when we're favored or a lot is expected (2001/2003/2006/2009/2011), the team has fallen flat on its face in crunch time. Yeah, in the end, on paper, the Tigers look hard to beat with Verlander, the back end of their pen and seeming "plus" offensive contributors at all but 1-2 positions across the line-up. When Avila hits like he did, it's a huge advantage for them because of the dearth of offensive talent at catcher. Same with Peralta on the left side of the infield. Probably our best chance to compete is staying close to 100% healthy again (that didn't help so much in 2011) and an injury to someone like Verlander, Cabrera or Valverde. (Not ROOTING for one, just saying that's our best or most likely scenario to be competitive...) Just looking forward to a new start, seeing how Ventura can adjust on the fly...the feeling following the Sox last year, was even more miserable than I ever felt as a fan in the lowest lows of the late 80's and mid to late 90's. Sure, it could get worse, but I would rather be optimistic. Our system sucks, but at least we've added 3 more players to it than we had before in Molina, Marinez and Martinez. Would have been happy to get rid of Ozzie with NO compensation back, maybe one of those guys can contribute down the line, who knows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 QUOTE (DirtySox @ Dec 29, 2011 -> 05:32 PM) Is this for real? The farm is awful. Has been for a while now, and the reasons for it being bad are readily evident to anyone who cares to do some research. Caul is championing the Sox turning the 8th overall pick of the 2008 draft into an all defense no offense 2B who might be non tendered in a few seasons. Morel has had one underwhelming season and is still largely an unknown. Flowers, Stewart, and DeAza have proven nothing yet. The only prospects I see that one should brag about is Sale and Sergio in relief roles, Humber (who many are still not sold on), and Viciedo. Large influx of talent my ass. Morel, based on the last 6 weeks and his history of making adjustments, as well as being around Ventura. None of that will hurt, and will probably help. Beckham....who the hell knows, right? He could be great again or non-tendered/traded this year or next. Let's see how he does away from Ozzie and Walker for one full season before we consign or condemn him to the scrap heap. DeAza has a nice track record of results when healthy. An All-Star, probably not....but a player who won't hurt us like Pierre did the past two years, undoubtedly. ANd cheap, so good. I'll agree that Flowers and Stewart haven't proven much yet. Viciedo, most of us are very high on. Jury's still out on Molina, obviously. Between Walker, Thompson and Mitchell, one of those 3 guys will "get it" soon. I'm a big fan of Santiago...we have something with him. Addison Reed, as noted, the best closing candidate (among the top prospects) in the game today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 I like the positive vibes, but you guys are WAY overrating these players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 What choice is there, other than to mire in misery and self-flagellation? I guess we can pick on Joe Cowley, KW or Ozzie, but that's getting a tad bit tedious, as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 29, 2011 -> 05:57 PM) What choice is there, other than to mire in misery and self-flagellation? I guess we can pick on Joe Cowley, KW or Ozzie, but that's getting a tad bit tedious, as well. I'll start being optimistic toward rebuilding the farm if Kenny actually uses his entire draft allotment this coming season. Edited December 30, 2011 by DirtySox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (DirtySox @ Dec 29, 2011 -> 07:02 PM) I'll start being optimistic toward rebuilding the farm if Kenny actually uses his entire draft allotment this coming season. Fair enough. Or if we fork out the money to Cespedes. Perhaps the Borchard experience still lingers in their mind/s, although results with Viciedo look much more promising. Edited December 30, 2011 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted December 30, 2011 Author Share Posted December 30, 2011 QUOTE (DirtySox @ Dec 29, 2011 -> 06:02 PM) I'll start being optimistic toward rebuilding the farm if Kenny actually uses his entire draft allotment this coming season. So based on where our pick will be, how does Kenny best go about doing this? If you were him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtySox Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Dec 29, 2011 -> 07:44 PM) So based on where our pick will be, how does Kenny best go about doing this? If you were him. No idea at this point. I haven't given it much thought since the recent changes and I haven't memorized the ins and outs of the entire CBA yet. There is still an opportunity to be cheap in the draft though. If the organization just stays the course with the reasoning that the draft changes will simply reign everyone else in, I'll be a bit upset. I want to see a commitment to take the best players available, and I want to see them use the majority of the money they are alotted according to the new guidelines. That's all I can really hope for. Edited December 30, 2011 by DirtySox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 The rotation as is, includes two good pitchers, one injury-prone one, and two totally questionable commodities in Humber and Sale. Even if Sale and Molina turn out to be what they were projected to be (1/2 starters), we're looking at a very good rotation, but nowhere near "powerhouse". This team has had a good pitching staff for the last 3 years and we have just one division title to show for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 QUOTE (chw42 @ Dec 29, 2011 -> 09:14 PM) This team has had a good pitching staff for the last 3 years and we have just one division title to show for it. Technically, over the last 3 years, 0 division titles to show for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 29, 2011 -> 08:51 PM) Technically, over the last 3 years, 0 division titles to show for it. Oops, yeah over the last 4 years then. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunofgold Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I hope that our rotation works out. Never know. Guys can look good in the minors, suck in the majors. Vice versa. We at least have hope that at least a few of these young pitchers become fixtures in our rotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 for definition of powerhouse see : phillies, philadelphia. tigers, detroit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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