The Miami Marlins thread

[Iwritecode]

It's a performance business. Ozzie gives Bell the ball; Bell has to get the save. No excuses.

 

And when he doesn't, let him keep going out there and trying. Performance be damned.

[Dick Allen]

It's a performance business. Ozzie gives Bell the ball; Bell has to get the save. No excuses.

Right. Now if Bell actually did what he was paid to do, that's when you can give Ozzie credit. He can't make everyone an all star, but a pretty good majority.

 

I don't think most people understand Ozzie, when he was a 3rd base coach, was THE driving force in the Marlins' last title run. How many 3rd base coaches can say that?

 

Whatever Ozzie gets paid, it isn't enough.

[greg775]

I'm assuming that conversation took place sometime in April or May. It doesn't look like it helped because Heath hasn't really gotten any better.

 

A 2-4 record with a 6.00 ERA and only converted 18 of 31 save opportunities.

 

Yet Ozzie seems to stubbornly stick by him and "have his back". I seem to remember that being a big complaint from a lot of people here.

 

I would assume the GM or Ozzie will take the fall for the high paid acquisition flopping.

[Dick Allen]

I would assume the GM or Ozzie will take the fall for the high paid acquisition flopping.

Its obviously the GM. He signed the guy to be the closer. Ozzie does what any good manager does........he gives his closer the ball. If he keeps failing, so what? Heath Bell wasn't Ozzie's idea.

 

The faster they can clear any other decision maker out of the Marlins organization and leave all the tough decisions to Ozzie, the better for them.

Edited July 6, 2012 by Dick Allen

[greg775]

Right. Now if Bell actually did what he was paid to do, that's when you can give Ozzie credit. He can't make everyone an all star, but a pretty good majority.

 

I don't think most people understand Ozzie, when he was a 3rd base coach, was THE driving force in the Marlins' last title run. How many 3rd base coaches can say that?

 

Whatever Ozzie gets paid, it isn't enough.

 

I deserve credit for changing Dick Allen's Internet persona from the best poster to a sarcastic one. Wow.

 

[Dick Allen]

I deserve credit for changing Dick Allen's Internet persona from the best poster to a sarcastic one. Wow.

I'm not being sarcastic. How many playoff appearances have the Marlins made since Ozzie left for Chicago? Zero. Viva Ozzie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I actually admire that you stick to your guns regarding Ozzie despite all the contrary evidence. But even you have to admit, some of your points are pretty silly.

Edited July 6, 2012 by Dick Allen

[Quin]

Quin just got handled by greg. That is awesome.

I'll concede that one, but wasn't Greg just complaining about people taking one part of a post and ignoring the whole?

[GoodAsGould]

I'm just waiting for the day Greg admits he has been f***ing with us all along.

[greg775]

I'm not being sarcastic. How many playoff appearances have the Marlins made since Ozzie left for Chicago? Zero. Viva Ozzie!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I actually admire that you stick to your guns regarding Ozzie despite all the contrary evidence. But even you have to admit, some of your points are pretty silly.

Well, these last few posts are a different Dick Allen persona. So if you are trying to f*** with my head, you do win this battle. The viva Ozzie stuff pretty much defeats me. It's not Dick Allen-ish. So you win the fight.

 

I'll concede that one, but wasn't Greg just complaining about people taking one part of a post and ignoring the whole?

Yes, but my comeback shows I am not as dumb as you think I am at least.

 

I'm just waiting for the day Greg admits he has been f***ing with us all along.

You guys are nuts. I defend Ozzie. I do not start these things.

[Quin]

Well, these last few posts are a different Dick Allen persona. So if you are trying to f*** with my head, you do win this battle. The viva Ozzie stuff pretty much defeats me. It's not Dick Allen-ish. So you win the fight.

 

 

Yes, but my comeback shows I am not as dumb as you think I am at least.

 

 

You guys are nuts. I defend Ozzie. I do not start these things.

 

Greg, dumb and delusional are two different things. I don't think you're dumb.

[Milkman delivers]

You guys don't even have an open mind on the matter.

 

Holy f***ing f***. For you of all people to say that in a discussion about Ozzie Guillen is absolutely priceless. That is fascinating.

[caulfield12]

1) Ozzie Guillen ALWAYS defends his veterans over the younger players, see Pierre/Viciedo or playing Rios all last season or Dunn over Lillibridge. Already publicly defending and then simultaneously not defending Bell is going to get him nowhere in the clubhouse.

 

2) Greg, how can you explain why the White Sox have the best outfield defense in recent years when last year it was probably the worst?

 

3) Greg, how can you explain why the White Sox are actually having very good success throwing out and holding on opposing baserunners?

 

4) Greg, how can you explain why the White Sox actually having a consistent line-up from day to day hasn't been a stabilizing influence?

 

5) Greg, how can you explain why some of the players like Peavy, Dunn and Rios who have been pretty bad in recent seasons with the Sox (to the point where a lot of fans wanted them waived/released/salaries dumped) are suddenly playing the best and carrying the team this year?

 

6) Greg, how can you explain why Ozzie and Cooper are now dealing so well with 10+ rookies on a team when Ozzie struggled to deal with 1-2-3 on a roster?

 

7) Greg, why have Robin's "Sunday line-ups" been working, whereas that strategy hadn't worked for Ozzie for YEARS?

 

8) Greg, why are we now having some decent success against journeymen/left-handers/soft-tossers/AAAA pitchers?

 

9) Greg, why are we hitting so much better with RISP this season?

 

 

[greg775]

1) Ozzie Guillen ALWAYS defends his veterans over the younger players, see Pierre/Viciedo or playing Rios all last season or Dunn over Lillibridge. Already publicly defending and then simultaneously not defending Bell is going to get him nowhere in the clubhouse.

 

2) Greg, how can you explain why the White Sox have the best outfield defense in recent years when last year it was probably the worst?

 

3) Greg, how can you explain why the White Sox are actually having very good success throwing out and holding on opposing baserunners?

 

4) Greg, how can you explain why the White Sox actually having a consistent line-up from day to day hasn't been a stabilizing influence?

 

5) Greg, how can you explain why some of the players like Peavy, Dunn and Rios who have been pretty bad in recent seasons with the Sox (to the point where a lot of fans wanted them waived/released/salaries dumped) are suddenly playing the best and carrying the team this year?

 

6) Greg, how can you explain why Ozzie and Cooper are now dealing so well with 10+ rookies on a team when Ozzie struggled to deal with 1-2-3 on a roster?

 

7) Greg, why have Robin's "Sunday line-ups" been working, whereas that strategy hadn't worked for Ozzie for YEARS?

 

8) Greg, why are we now having some decent success against journeymen/left-handers/soft-tossers/AAAA pitchers?

 

9) Greg, why are we hitting so much better with RISP this season?

 

Hey, could it be Ozzie had a bad year last year, as Kenny had a bad year and the players had a bad year last year? Actually the last 2 years of pretty bad baseball? If you think it's all on Ozzie, fine. If you think Ozzie's performance is why the players failed, fine. I happen to not think that. I think it's shared blame with the majority of it on the ballplayers. Is ozzie imperfect? Of course. But they call it a "team" for a reason. I look at the big picture and I think the big picture indicates Ozzie was an unqualified success in Chicago. When people blast away on him, I can't help but stand up for him even though he and his millions of dollars do not need my support. Even though he'd tell me to f*** off if I met him in a bar and told him I stand up for him on soxtalk. He'd call me a loser.

Too bad, I think he was a good Sox skipper.

If the answers to all your questions are "it's Ozzie's fault," fine.

I do not believe this to be the case. Yet I also do not believe Ozzie is perfect.

 

Edited July 7, 2012 by greg775

[caulfield12]

Hey, could it be Ozzie had a bad year last year, as Kenny had a bad year and the players had a bad year last year? Actually the last 2 years of pretty bad baseball? If you think it's all on Ozzie, fine. If you think Ozzie's performance is why the players failed, fine. I happen to not think that. I think it's shared blame with the majority of it on the ballplayers. Is ozzie imperfect? Of course. But they call it a "team" for a reason. I look at the big picture and I think the big picture indicates Ozzie was an unqualified success in Chicago. When people blast away on him, I can't help but stand up for him even though he and his millions of dollars do not need my support. Even though he'd tell me to f*** off if I met him in a bar and told him I stand up for him on soxtalk. He'd call me a loser.

Too bad, I think he was a good Sox skipper.

If the answers to all your questions are "it's Ozzie's fault," fine.

I do not believe this to be the case. Yet I also do not believe Ozzie is perfect.

 

 

Now you're sounding exactly like Ozzie.

 

Why does his financial success always get brought up? Many would argue that actually he's not a very happy person in actuality, hence all the drinking. That he has become a victim of the monster that he created in 2005 and is trapped by the Ozzie "public persona" of always having to one-up himself to get attention.

 

Ready my signature for further clarification.

 

 

[knightni]

saw a guillen press conference last night on MLBN. When did he start going with the Pat Reilly slicked back hairdo look?

When he asks people to say hello to his lil' friend.

[iamshack]

Honestly people, aren't there better things you all could do with your time?

[flippedoutpunk]

I looooove when you analyze, greg

[ILMOU]

Hey, could it be Ozzie had a bad year last year, as Kenny had a bad year and the players had a bad year last year? Actually the last 2 years of pretty bad baseball? If you think it's all on Ozzie, fine. If you think Ozzie's performance is why the players failed, fine. I happen to not think that. I think it's shared blame with the majority of it on the ballplayers. Is ozzie imperfect? Of course. But they call it a "team" for a reason. I look at the big picture and I think the big picture indicates Ozzie was an unqualified success in Chicago. When people blast away on him, I can't help but stand up for him even though he and his millions of dollars do not need my support. Even though he'd tell me to f*** off if I met him in a bar and told him I stand up for him on soxtalk. He'd call me a loser.

Too bad, I think he was a good Sox skipper.

If the answers to all your questions are "it's Ozzie's fault," fine.

I do not believe this to be the case. Yet I also do not believe Ozzie is perfect.

 

Good post, Greg, and I really think the mgr's contribution to success or failure is less than most people want to believe.

 

However, IMO, ONE of the positives of our manager's style that seems to be rubbing off on some of the players, is actually giving a damn. Ozzie was phoning it in for years.

[kitekrazy]

Honestly people, aren't there better things you all could do with your time?

 

This thread should be called "Bring out the worst in Greg".

[greg775]

Good post, Greg, and I really think the mgr's contribution to success or failure is less than most people want to believe.

 

However, IMO, ONE of the positives of our manager's style that seems to be rubbing off on some of the players, is actually giving a damn. Ozzie was phoning it in for years.

Maybe. That's possible. I don't agree that Ozzie was phoning it in, though. I don't see any evidence of that. I haven't read any articles accusing him of that. I remember watching the games we won last year and they'd show those dugout shots of Ozzie pumping his fist and getting all excited when we got a big hit, etc. I am puzzled why you would say he was phoning it in. What does that mean anyway?

Ozzie could be accused of sticking with the high paid guys who were not producing: Rios and Dunn. s***, I'd have done the same thing. Kenny acquired those guys and the Sox pay them huge money and on paper they were way better than anything else the Sox had, except maybe Tank. He was loyal to a fault to Rios/Dunn and they just didn't hit. And in Rios' case he didn't field either. The bullpen also was blah to s***ty. Is that Oz phoning it in ?

I don't see how benching Dunn/Rios was possible considering their salaries, yet a lot of people on this board use that as evidence of Oz phoning it in. I'd have played the high playing underachievers (last year) like Oz did.

 

This thread should be called "Bring out the worst in Greg".

 

That made me smile as well. Good line. The thread should be retitled: "Let's ride Ozzie's ass for quitting on the White Sox and having good for nothing kids."

Edited July 7, 2012 by greg775

[Quin]

Maybe. That's possible. I don't agree that Ozzie was phoning it in, though. I don't see any evidence of that. I haven't read any articles accusing him of that. I remember watching the games we won last year and they'd show those dugout shots of Ozzie pumping his fist and getting all excited when we got a big hit, etc. I am puzzled why you would say he was phoning it in. What does that mean anyway?

Ozzie could be accused of sticking with the high paid guys who were not producing: Rios and Dunn. s***, I'd have done the same thing. Kenny acquired those guys and the Sox pay them huge money and on paper they were way better than anything else the Sox had, except maybe Tank. He was loyal to a fault to Rios/Dunn and they just didn't hit. And in Rios' case he didn't field either. The bullpen also was blah to s***ty. Is that Oz phoning it in ?

I don't see how benching Dunn/Rios was possible considering their salaries, yet a lot of people on this board use that as evidence of Oz phoning it in. I'd have played the high playing underachievers (last year) like Oz did.

 

 

 

That made me smile as well. Good line. The thread should be retitled: "Let's ride Ozzie's ass for quitting on the White Sox and having good for nothing kids."

 

Then you would be a terrible manager.

 

You can bench highly paid players. See: James, Jerome and Zito, Barry.

[Balta1701]

In case anyone didn't see, Giancarlo Stanton will have his knee scoped, will be out 4-6 weeks.

 

That's particularly bad for the Marlins. Stanton is the only guy on that team with an OPS over .800 on the year.

[Quin]

In case anyone didn't see, Giancarlo Stanton will have his knee scoped, will be out 4-6 weeks.

 

That's particularly bad for the Marlins. Stanton is the only guy on that team with an OPS over .800 on the year.

 

Ozzie will inspire them with domino playing. Don't worry.

[Steve9347]

Bell blows another save, Ozzie continues to win Manager of the Year.

[max power]

That made me smile as well. Good line. The thread should be retitled: "Let's ride Ozzie's ass for quitting on the White Sox and having good for nothing kids."

I have to say, I might rethink my position stated earlier in this thread - that ozzie forced the sox to trade him by purposely playing under-performing players and sitting capable ones to spite KW.

 

He seems to be sticking with under-performing players now without any reason.

 

Maybe he is just a terrible manager to employ, especially on a team with under-performing vets.