Who made you King?

 

If by not being a complete idiot, that makes me King, then the standards are pretty damn low.

Marty,

 

Are you saying that DET is in a much better position at DH/LF with Brad Eldred, Delmon Young, Andy Dirks and J. Worth than the White Sox?

 

Why can't Dave Dombrowski find better players with a much bigger budget than the Sox?

 

 

 

 

Why is this thread still around? I haven't even read a single post in it yet because the title alone is ridiculous.

Someone change the title to "Hotfire Not Worth the Wait"

Marty,

 

Are you saying that DET is in a much better position at DH/LF with Brad Eldred, Delmon Young, Andy Dirks and J. Worth than the White Sox?

 

Why can't Dave Dombrowski find better players with a much bigger budget than the Sox?

Detroit looks like Boston's team from a week ago right now. 5 "why are these guys in the big leagues" players on their roster, a bullpen where no one other than Dotel seems reliable, and multiple guys who should be hitting failing to do so.

Marty, you are either seeing something I'm not with Viciedo or you are watching a different Viciedo. He has great plate coverage, incredible bat speed, and incredible power. He's just has a lot of work to do still. The main problems I see with Viciedo are:

 

1) He tries to extend his arms on every single swing. I don't think I've seen him shorten his swing yet to just try and make good, solid contact at all this year. It's like he wants to put every single pitch he swings at in the stands somewhere. There's nothing wrong with extending and trying to clobber a pitch most of the time, but there are moments when a player needs to shorten up and just make good solid contact. Pitchers know that and use it to their advantage.

2) As a result of trying to extend his arms every single time, he's trying to pull everything into the LF bleachers. Pitchers know that and will throw him away, away, away and they'll watch him either roll over the ball or they'll see him cheat and reach out across. Neither one is a desirable.

3) As a result of trying to pull everything to left, there is no versatility to his approach right now. He's still an extremely dangerous hitter, but it's very easy to get him out so long as you can locate. Anything you throw him away is either going to be popped up or rolled over. I have yet to see him really even try to take anything to center or right field this year.

 

But you want an example of great plate coverage, incredible bat speed, and incredible power all in 1 video?

 

 

It's more centered than I originally thought, but it's still low, it's still on the outer half of the plate, it's off the end of the bat, and he still hit it 350+ feet.

 

In fact, more than anything, that video is reassuring to what I thought about Viciedo tonight watching him - he looks like a young Adrian Beltre at the plate. You can judge for yourself

 

 

They stand quite similar, go about attacking the ball the same way, have similar bat speed, plate coverage, and power. And even more, they walk about the same too. Viciedo strikes out a bit more, but seeing Viciedo put up anything between .850 and .950 OPSs for a good portion of his career wouldn't surprise me, but while hes young, seeing him put up something at or below .750 wouldn't surprise me either. He, more than anybody else on this team, needs to work on going with the pitch. I feel like I've said that ad nauseum the past few days, but when he can figure out how to go to RF and RCF with the ball, then he can start swinging with authority to those places, and then hitting becomes a whole lot easier for him.

Beltre has been the player he's reminded me of as well.

 

I agree with much of what you said, Wite...I guess it frightens me because these are many of the same things I saw from him 2 years ago when he came up.

 

I do agree with Stone's point last night though that we are starting to see more quality at bats from him on a nightly basis.

When he was in B'ham in 2009, he took the ball the other way a lot.

When he was in B'ham in 2009, he took the ball the other way a lot.

And one thing, IIRC, that they needed him to work on was actually being able to pull the ball to more effectively exploit his natural power.

And one thing, IIRC, that they needed him to work on was actually being able to pull the ball to more effectively exploit his natural power.

 

Where's Greg Walker when you need him?

Anyone else think he looks like Deangelo Barksdale?

Anyone else think he looks like Deangelo Barksdale?

 

Thats exactly who i was thinking ofwhat??

Marty, you are either seeing something I'm not with Viciedo or you are watching a different Viciedo. He has great plate coverage, incredible bat speed, and incredible power.

 

Production in minors has been less than what you'd expect from an elite hitting prospect. And if he isn't an elite hitting prospect, how long do you wait for him to produce given that he only plays LF.

 

so what do you suggest we do? trade him now when his value is low?

WTF?

Production in minors has been less than what you'd expect from an elite hitting prospect. And if he isn't an elite hitting prospect, how long do you wait for him to produce given that he only plays LF.

.856 OPS as a 22 year old in AAA despite being bothered the whole year due to a broken hand suffered in ST is pretty darn elite if you include the age.

Production in minors has been less than what you'd expect from an elite hitting prospect. And if he isn't an elite hitting prospect, how long do you wait for him to produce given that he only plays LF.

 

his minor league numbers were good overall for such a young player.

 

I wouldn't call 140 hits and 70 plus RBI's in 2009 bad in any way whatsover. Only C.J. Retherford had more hits...in the entire Southern League.

And one thing, IIRC, that they needed him to work on was actually being able to pull the ball to more effectively exploit his natural power.

 

Exactly, he didn't start pulling until the second half. But, he really wasn't getting anything to pull in the first half.

You're an idiot, his minor league numbers were good overall for such a young player.

 

I wouldn't call 140 hits and 70 plus RBI's in 2009 bad in any way whatsover. Only C.J. Retherford had more hits...in the entire Southern League.

 

 

Agreed, but is idiot necessary? Let's keep it above the belt.

Marty, I'm sure it was mentioned earlier in the thread, but what is your solution to the issue? Is there some other young OF you want up here playing every day?

 

If you think we're a win-now team, then yes I could see more Fukudome at-bats..sure.

 

But if we're intent on building something this year, there's no question we need a bigger major league sample size on Viciedo, and this is the perfect year to see what we have there.

I can't believe people are really willing to conclude, well, anything about this guy less than 300 ML ABs into his career.

 

For context, Paul Konerko was barely hitting over .200 at the age of 22, about 400 ABs into his career.

 

I think I'll wait until he's about 1000 ABs into his career until I start to draw any conclusions.

Edited May 3, 201213 yr by Greg Hibbard

I can't believe people are really willing to conclude, well, anything about this guy less than 300 ML ABs into his career.

 

For context, Paul Konerko was barely hitting over .200 at the age of 22, about 400 ABs into his career.

 

I think I'll wait until he's about 1000 ABs into his career until I start to draw any conclusions.

I was just about to post the exact same messagee. You took the words right out of my mouth.

 

If I recall correctly, from the last time I looked at Konerko's stats, he had poor stats in, like, the first 4 or 5 years of his major league career. It wasn't until about 2004 that Konerko really started becoming the batter he is today.

Production in minors has been less than what you'd expect from an elite hitting prospect. And if he isn't an elite hitting prospect, how long do you wait for him to produce given that he only plays LF.

 

strait trolling.

Or, for another example, David Ortiz with the Twins...Luis Gonzalez, Jose Bautista, etc.

 

I'm not saying he will necessarily put up their numbers over a career, but he has the "ability/potential" to do so. The ball just jumps off his bat, that's the one thing we always heard and saw in the scouting videos. We can ALSO pretty confidently say we don't have any hitters at the minor league level who have that type of an impact bat other than perhaps Jared Mitchell if he continues his current track. (And perhaps Trayce Thompson behind him).

 

Other than that, we can dissect Viciedo's stroke, show all the videos of his homers and XB hits, Marty still will never be convinced.

 

However, if Ozzie's sons were White Sox scouts and were the ones responsible for signing a kid like Viciedo as a FA, you would think he was the second coming of Carlos Lee, Beltre, Bobby Bonilla and Vladimir Guerrero all wrapped up into one neat little package and tied neatly with a bow.

his minor league numbers were good overall for such a young player.

 

I wouldn't call 140 hits and 70 plus RBI's in 2009 bad in any way whatsover. Only C.J. Retherford had more hits...in the entire Southern League.

 

How many outs did he make in 2009? Besides, it doesn't matter that his numbers were "good" or "not bad", they were not what you'd expect from an elite hitting prospect. Also, I do not give one damn about CJ Retherford as a comparison to any top hitting prospect.

I can't believe people are really willing to conclude, well, anything about this guy less than 300 ML ABs into his career.

 

For context, Paul Konerko was barely hitting over .200 at the age of 22, about 400 ABs into his career.

 

I think I'll wait until he's about 1000 ABs into his career until I start to draw any conclusions.

 

What were Konerko's Minor League numbers compared to Viciedo?