Sox land Liriano

[Marty34]

Throw away Jones' worst 3 outings covering 1 1/3 innings and his ERA is 1.56 his other 40 1/3 with a K an inning. Totally useless.

 

32 base runners allowed in 16 innings covering last 2 months. Useless.

[Chisoxfn]

Throw away Jones' worst 3 outings covering 1 1/3 innings and his ERA is 1.56 his other 40 1/3 with a K an inning. Totally useless.

And thats a pretty good number of innings for a rookie reliever too. I find it hillarious how ignorant some of the posters are. Reading game threads can be pathetic (as I think you pointed out a couple nights ago Dick). Often times I'll be checking in and if I didn't know any better Sox were down 10+ runs. Instead I go check and its either like a 1 or 2 run deficit or the Sox are up.

[fathom]

With Jones, I'd like to see him get a few games where he can start an inning and have more margain for error. Despite his 99 mph fastball, I think his best pitch is his slider. However, he's unable to use it as much if he comes in with runners on base.

[Dick Allen]

32 base runners allowed in 16 innings covering last 2 months. Useless.

12 of those runners were in the 1 1/3 innings in 3 appearances I was mentioning, so useless? No. Marty wrong again? Yes.

[Marty34]

Jones is not useless. Dude is solid and will be very good. Guys are going to give up runs, it happens. And he's bound to struggle as he gets there, thats why acquiring Myers was so important. He's been there and done it and when you add in Crain (who is getting better and more into baseball shape again) and you are in a much better place.

 

He's 26 years old, he may be very good. At the moment he's useless to a team in a pennant race. There are things to like about Liriano, but durability is not one of them. His starts are going to tax the pen and another RH reliever is necessary. I'll be stunned if they don't get one before the deadline.

[fathom]

He's 26 years old, he may be very good. At the moment he's useless to a team in a pennant race. There are things to like about Liriano, but durability is not one of them. His starts are going to tax the pen and another RH reliever is necessary. I'll be stunned if they don't get one before the deadline.

 

Jones isn't useless, as you're going to need relievers who can give you some innings in games you're not winning. Right now, you don't want to use Myers/Crain/Thornton/Reed in games you're trailing.

[Chisoxfn]

With Jones, I'd like to see him get a few games where he can start an inning and have more margain for error. Despite his 99 mph fastball, I think his best pitch is his slider. However, he's unable to use it as much if he comes in with runners on base.

His change-up has surprised me as well. Given where he was a few years ago, he's made a lot of progress and I expect him to continue to progress. Stuff is great and he's cost controlled, which is beautiful given how expensive relievers can be.

[Chisoxfn]

He's 26 years old, he may be very good. At the moment he's useless to a team in a pennant race. There are things to like about Liriano, but durability is not one of them. His starts are going to tax the pen and another RH reliever is necessary. I'll be stunned if they don't get one before the deadline.

How is he useless. Outside of a couple horrific outings, he's been well above average. And I got news for you, relievers can be good with a differing ERA irregardless. The guy is valuable and a lot of teams would love having him. I don't even know what to think, if it were up to you this team would have a lot less young talent and a lot more crappy veterans.

[Marty34]

12 of those runners were in the 1 1/3 innings in 3 appearances I was mentioning, so useless? No. Marty wrong again? Yes.

 

So take out his worst 3 appearance and he's still below average over since June 1 .

[Chisoxfn]

Jones isn't useless, as you're going to need relievers who can give you some innings in games you're not winning. Right now, you don't want to use Myers/Crain/Thornton/Reed in games you're trailing.

Thats where Jones and Santiago are so valuable. They can go a few innings (and continue to develop) and hold you in games without burning the rest of the pen. Which is huge, cause it keeps the 3 vets fresh and ensures Reed is ready for the bigger games. And despite everyone' incessant b****ing about Reed, he throws a mid 90's fastball with pretty good command. He is still developing the breaking stuff and needs to better learn to change the eye-level but he's going to be a pretty good reliever (2 good pitches and very good command for a young reliever; opponents BAA is pretty low too). And he has a nice downward plane thanks to his delivery.

[Marty34]

How is he useless. Outside of a couple horrific outings, he's been well above average. And I got news for you, relievers can be good with a differing ERA irregardless. The guy is valuable and a lot of teams would love having him. I don't even know what to think, if it were up to you this team would have a lot less young talent and a lot more crappy veterans.

 

Who are the crappy veterans I've been advocating? I don't want Nate Jones pitching in a meaningful situation for the Sox in a pennant race. Is that really that outrageous?

[2nd_city_saint787]

With Myers and Crain, Nate Jones is the RH "mop up" guy. I don't think there's a team in baseball that has 3 lights out RHP in the pen.

[Chisoxfn]

Who are the crappy veterans I've been advocating? I don't want Nate Jones pitching in a meaningful situation for the Sox in a pennant race. Is that really that outrageous?

Yea, it is. You want a perfect bullpen and expect guys to get people all every situation. The reality is that doesn't happen. The reality is, Jones has been an above average reliever, yet you continously whine and complain about him and countless others. For god sakes your busy yacking how Pierre would be more beneficial to the Sox then Viciedo, which is just insane.

 

I realize you are rooting for the Sox and are a big fan, but more often then not, you seem to have vendettas against certain players no matter what there performance indicates. You also seem to be one of the many individuals who doesn't have an appreciationi (and there are plenty of people that fit this bill) for something called development. Thank the lord that Ventura gets it cause this team wouldn't be where it was without its young players (and the passion that they bring and I think the mix of youth and veterans is what has given the Sox a good clubhouse and this never quit attitude that was non-existent during most of Guillen's years).

[kitekrazy]

But they're not going to go into 2013 with Morel as the 3B after this year...the fans wouldn't be very tolerant after how well YOUK has played and how many games he's been the key to winning.

 

Liriano, if he's comfortable here and enjoys working with Cooper, why not? Familiar with division, same area of the US roughly, he's not going to be getting $12.5 million (the minimum for compensation as an offer) or more, so he might want to sign a one year deal with the Sox, work with Nieves and Cooper, then go after the big payday in 2014.

 

Liriano, with just a couple of exceptions, has pitched better than Floyd and Humber for the last 6-8 weeks.

 

If you're KW, you take the potential turnaround of Liriano at $5-7 million over Gavin Floyd at $9.5 million every time.

 

I hope they think $12M is worth since trying to fill that hole for 6 years has not worked. You can't have Beckham and Morel in the same line up.

 

[caulfield12]

Yea, it is. You want a perfect bullpen and expect guys to get people all every situation. The reality is that doesn't happen. The reality is, Jones has been an above average reliever, yet you continously whine and complain about him and countless others. For god sakes your busy yacking how Pierre would be more beneficial to the Sox then Viciedo, which is just insane.

 

I realize you are rooting for the Sox and are a big fan, but more often then not, you seem to have vendettas against certain players no matter what there performance indicates. You also seem to be one of the many individuals who doesn't have an appreciationi (and there are plenty of people that fit this bill) for something called development. Thank the lord that Ventura gets it cause this team wouldn't be where it was without its young players (and the passion that they bring and I think the mix of youth and veterans is what has given the Sox a good clubhouse and this never quit attitude that was non-existent during most of Guillen's years).

 

 

Santiago (despite him going through 3-4 different roles), Jones and Septimo are really benefitting from this season. Same with Danks.

 

Then you have that next grouping with Veal, Marinez, Heath, Omogrosso, Axelrod...all getting valuable experience and exposure to game situations in a pennant race. Eventually, we can hope that Santos Rodriguez will make that next step as well.

 

Not sure about Tyler's swing, but his defensive game has just grown by leaps and bounds...even when pitchers aren't holding guys, he's getting what should have been outs (Andrus at 3B) or making it close. Great at blocking pitches for his size, it's even more apparent when you compare him with AJ in this area.

Edited July 29, 2012 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

I hope they think $12M is worth since trying to fill that hole for 6 years has not worked. You can't have Beckham and Morel in the same line up.

 

 

I think so....can't stress how important it is to keep Youk and AJ, and how indifferent whatever happens with Thornton, Crain and Floyd.

 

Ideally, we keep two guys like Liriano for half the price of what we'd be on the hook for with Gavin.

 

We have that money coming off the books from Peavy and THEORETICALLY an insurance payout from Danks, plus we'll be swimming in revenue the last 30 or so home games with key series against opponents like the Yankees, Angels, Tigers and even A's.

Edited July 29, 2012 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

Santiago (despite him going through 3-4 different roles), Jones and Septimo are really benefitting from this season. Same with Danks.

 

Then you have that next grouping with Veal, Marinez, Heath, Omogrosso, Axelrod...all getting valuable experience and exposure to game situations in a pennant race. Eventually, we can hope that Santos Rodriguez will make that next step as well.

 

Not sure about Tyler's swing, but his defensive game has just grown by leaps and bounds...even when pitchers aren't holding guys, he's getting what should have been outs (Andrus at 3B) or making it close. Great at blocking pitches for his size, it's even more apparent when you compare him with AJ in this area.

That Andrus play was ridiculous. He was out on the throw and tag and slid off the base while the tag was on him. He was out twice but called safe.

[Chisoxfn]

I think so....can't stress how important it is to keep Youk and AJ, and how indifferent whatever happens with Thornton, Crain and Floyd.

 

Ideally, we keep two guys like Liriano for half the price of what we'd be on the hook for with Gavin.

 

We have that money coming off the books from Peavy and THEORETICALLY an insurance payout from Danks, plus we'll be swimming in revenue the last 30 or so home games with key series against opponents like the Yankees, Angels, Tigers and even A's.

I think Youk is a good bet to get a 1 to 2 year deal worth 6-8M per year. He won't get 12M just because of the injury issues the past couple years and the fact that his body as a whole is the type that should break-down quickly. Given the hole at 3B, that is the type of deal that I'd support.

[Chisoxfn]

I think so....can't stress how important it is to keep Youk and AJ, and how indifferent whatever happens with Thornton, Crain and Floyd.

 

Ideally, we keep two guys like Liriano for half the price of what we'd be on the hook for with Gavin.

 

We have that money coming off the books from Peavy and THEORETICALLY an insurance payout from Danks, plus we'll be swimming in revenue the last 30 or so home games with key series against opponents like the Yankees, Angels, Tigers and even A's.

Isn't Floyd at like 10M. That is pretty cheap and you aren't going to see Liriano signing for 5M, imo. Maybe, but probably more like 7-8M.

[Knackattack]

I hope that they work to extend him for even 2 years, he had a down season and we could get him back on the cheap. Wouldn't mind seeing Liriano stick around for a bit.

[Marty34]

Yea, it is. You want a perfect bullpen and expect guys to get people all every situation. The reality is that doesn't happen. The reality is, Jones has been an above average reliever, yet you continously whine and complain about him and countless others. For god sakes your busy yacking how Pierre would be more beneficial to the Sox then Viciedo, which is just insane.

 

I realize you are rooting for the Sox and are a big fan, but more often then not, you seem to have vendettas against certain players no matter what there performance indicates. You also seem to be one of the many individuals who doesn't have an appreciationi (and there are plenty of people that fit this bill) for something called development. Thank the lord that Ventura gets it cause this team wouldn't be where it was without its young players (and the passion that they bring and I think the mix of youth and veterans is what has given the Sox a good clubhouse and this never quit attitude that was non-existent during most of Guillen's years).

 

We disagree about Nate Jones.

[JoshPR]

Yeah right you just give a away a first year pitcher with 100 mph fastball ... Yeah ahhh ok

[Chisoxfn]

Yeah right you just give a away a first year pitcher with 100 mph fastball ... Yeah ahhh ok

I assume you are talking about Nate?

[Cerbaho-WG]

Yes, jones throws hard. Hes also been abysmal for the last two months and has no feel for an offspeed pitch. He should probably be in aaa throwing a lot of sliders.

[flavum]

Liriano starts Tuesday.

 

Quintana, Liriano, Peavy in Minnesota