chw42 Posted November 15, 2012 Author Share Posted November 15, 2012 (edited) In related news: Rios got 4th (really?), 9th, and 10th place votes and finished ahead of Albert Pujols and Joe Mauer. Edited November 16, 2012 by chw42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted November 15, 2012 Author Share Posted November 15, 2012 Mike Trout is the 1st position player with a WAR of at least 10 to not win MVP since Sammy Sosa in 2001 Â Well, having Sammy Sosa's name in there probably taints the significance of that tidbit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zenryan Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 In the face sabermetrics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 Surprised that Sale didn't get a single vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 I couldn't care less what team Cabrera is on, Trout was the better player, they got this award wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 15, 2012 -> 05:48 PM) And if Cabrera isn't on the Tigers, they probably finish 3rd. Â Yes, if the Tigers did not have Cabrera, they would have finished 16 games worse. Absolutely. It's not like they had Verlander, Scherzer, Fielder, & Jackson. The 3rd place team in the Central won 72 freaking games, come on now. Edited November 16, 2012 by LittleHurt05 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 QUOTE (chw42 @ Nov 15, 2012 -> 05:49 PM) Wow...Trout with only 6 first place votes. BBWAA is still stuck in 2003. And somebody put Trout THIRD. Some writers don't deserve the right to vote.  It's like the writers didn't notice that the Angels won more games than the Tigers. Cabrera needs to thank the Sox for collapsing and the Angels bullpen for sucking as bad as it did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Nov 15, 2012 -> 09:28 PM) Yes, if the Tigers did not have Cabrera, they would have finished 16 games worse. Absolutely. It's not like they had Verlander, Scherzer, Fielder, & Jackson. This is easily the worst pro-Cabrera argument I have ever seen. Â Good job at ignoring the clarification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 15, 2012 -> 09:31 PM) Good job at ignoring the clarification. Â I saw that after I posted and edited mine. Â But it helps prove my point that the s***ty division contributed to Cabrera winning the award as much as anything else. In any other division, the Tigers don't win, and the writers don't give him as much credit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Nov 15, 2012 -> 05:39 PM) I still don't understand why that's such a big deal. It was a position he had played before, and it's not like he switched to catcher. If he wasn't capable of playing it, they wouldn't have asked. Â I agree. "Hey, do you mind switching back to the position you used to play so we can sign one of the best power hitters in the game?" Â Somehow I don't see that as a hard decision for anyone to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Nov 15, 2012 -> 09:34 PM) I saw that after I posted and edited mine. Â But it helps prove my point that the s***ty division contributed to Cabrera winning the award as much as anything else. In any other division, the Tigers don't win, and the writers don't give him as much credit. Â Like it or not, propelling your team to the playoffs has always been a key component of the MVP award. It is not the best offensive player, or the highest WAR award. The unmeasurables have always been a large part of the award. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 16, 2012 -> 07:57 AM) Like it or not, propelling your team to the playoffs has always been a key component of the MVP award. It is not the best offensive player, or the highest WAR award. The unmeasurables have always been a large part of the award. Â I know, and I actually predicted Cabrera would win it. I'm annoyed that it was such a landslide, that so many writers couldn't look at in more detail. The Angels had a better record than Detroit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 16, 2012 -> 07:57 AM) Like it or not, propelling your team to the playoffs has always been a key component of the MVP award. It is not the best offensive player, or the highest WAR award. The unmeasurables have always been a large part of the award. Well for a long time a lot of the stuff was unmeasurable (immeasurable?), but now we can quantify it. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Nov 16, 2012 -> 08:21 AM) I know, and I actually predicted Cabrera would win it. I'm annoyed that it was such a landslide, that so many writers couldn't look at in more detail. The Angels had a better record than Detroit! Â I think his performance in September during the stretch run, compared to what Trout did during the same stretch, is what made the difference to me. I felt that he was the reason that the Tigers made it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Nov 15, 2012 -> 07:00 PM) A lot of anti Tiger bias here. Triple Crown winner, played in every game but one, I give it to Cabrera because of the Triple Crown. That is so tough to do these days. Â LOL Â All the usual suspects are backing Cabrera. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 16, 2012 -> 08:26 AM) I think his performance in September during the stretch run, compared to what Trout did during the same stretch, is what made the difference to me. I felt that he was the reason that the Tigers made it. Â The Tigers made it because of their starting pitching. 4 of their 5 starters were lights out for the month of September. Â September ERA Verlander - 1.93 Scherzer - 2.17 Fister - 2.34 Sanchez - 2.43 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Nov 16, 2012 -> 08:52 AM) The Tigers made it because of their starting pitching. 4 of their 5 starters were lights out for the month of September. September ERA Verlander - 1.93 Scherzer - 2.17 Fister - 2.34 Sanchez - 2.43  Cabrera put up .333/.395/.675/1.071 with 11 homers and 30 RBI during Sept and the couple of days in Oct. His July and August were just as good, if not better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 16, 2012 -> 08:55 AM) Cabrera put up .333/.395/.675/1.071 with 11 homers and 30 RBI during Sept and the couple of days in Oct. His July and August were just as good, if not better. Â If he didn't have one of the best rotations in baseball on his team, those stats wouldn't matter. And they had to pitch around his bad defense at 3rd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Nov 16, 2012 -> 09:11 AM) If he didn't have one of the best rotations in baseball on his team, those stats wouldn't matter. And they had to pitch around his bad defense at 3rd. Â Speed and defense is the one thing that made the decision harder. But for comparison sake, here is Trout down the stretch... Â .289/.400/.500/.900 5 HR 9 RBI in Sept/Oct. That is 171 OPS points difference during the stretch run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 QUOTE (chw42 @ Nov 15, 2012 -> 05:59 PM) Well, having Sammy Sosa's name in there probably taints the significance of that tidbit. Â Someone with a 10+ WAR had to lose that year. Bonds put up 12.9. Luis Gonzalez put up 9.4, Jason Giambi 9.3 Â Steroids make stats fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 16, 2012 -> 09:20 AM) Speed and defense is the one thing that made the decision harder. But for comparison sake, here is Trout down the stretch... .289/.400/.500/.900 5 HR 9 RBI in Sept/Oct. That is 171 OPS points difference during the stretch run.  Trout did cool down offensively during the stretch run, but obviously his defense was still there.  Looking at the whole season, Anaheim was 6-14 when they called him up. They went 83-59 the rest of the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iwritecode Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 16, 2012 -> 07:57 AM) Like it or not, propelling your team to the playoffs has always been a key component of the MVP award. It is not the best offensive player, or the highest WAR award. The unmeasurables have always been a large part of the award. Â To me MVP = best player no matter what team they are on or how they finished in the standings. Â Â If Trout was on a last place team and put up the same numbers he would still be the best player in the league. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 QUOTE (Iwritecode @ Nov 16, 2012 -> 10:38 AM) To me MVP = best player no matter what team they are on or how they finished in the standings.  If Trout was on a last place team and put up the same numbers he would still be the best player in the league.  Except where your team finishes has almost always been a factor in the discussion. It is a huge deal when the person isn't on a first place team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewokpelts Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 16, 2012 -> 11:16 AM) Except where your team finishes has almost always been a factor in the discussion. It is a huge deal when the person isn't on a first place team.1987 Andrew Dawson and 2002 Alex Rodriguez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 QUOTE (ewokpelts @ Nov 16, 2012 -> 12:18 PM) 1987 Andrew Dawson and 2002 Alex Rodriguez  "almost always" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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