Gillaspie vs. Flowers

[T R U]

I'm sorry it means nothing to you, because it's actually his current batting average and it does a better job of telling the whole story than the 42 games since the break in which you're placing so much stock. If we're gonna rely so much on monthly splits, he also had months at .302 and .264 alongside the .330 and .394, so now we're looking at one month under .250. Evidently that's the only one that counts.

 

This reminds me of people arguing that John Danks isn't so bad if you ignore his five or six worst starts. It's true, but those starts happened, they're part of the record, and now they're data points for trying to predict future performance. Same thing here with Gillaspie. Could he hit .250 for the rest of his life? Absolutely. He could also hit .300. An objective guess is probably right in the middle.

 

I agree he shouldn't face lefties, there's no argument, but I quibble with the statement that he has no power. .138 ISO puts him 91st of 152 qualified hitters. You can do a lot worse.

 

Right, so a guy hits .450 the first month of the year and then .200 the next 5 months and you look at his avg and see .280 and go "that guy can play". That's not how it works. His month of .302 is much more likely to happen then the .330 and .394 months. Just like I wouldn't expect to see many .177 months like you pointed out earlier. Im not going to look at his season avg and make an overall judgment on him, especially when you consider the ridiculous avg he put up WAY early in the season.

 

Baseball is quite possibly the only sport where a superior month can make your end of year stats look pretty solid even if you were pretty bad the rest of the rest of the season.

[shysocks]

Where can I get platoon stats on Conor pre and post all-star break?

 

Is it possible he's been facing more LHP in the second half?

I wish I knew where to find that quickly, but I looked it up in his play log. 24.07% of his PA's have been against lefties since the break, compared with... 24.08% before the break.

[The Wiz]

Right, so a guy hits .450 the first month of the year and then .200 the next 5 months and you look at his avg and see .280 and go "that guy can play". That's not how it works. His month of .302 is much more likely to happen then the .330 and .394 months. Just like I wouldn't expect to see many .177 months like you pointed out earlier. Im not going to look at his season avg and make an overall judgment on him, especially when you consider the ridiculous avg he put up WAY early in the season.

 

Baseball is quite possibly the only sport where a superior month can make your end of year stats look pretty solid even if you were pretty bad the rest of the rest of the season.

The only thing is that he was actually pretty solid for the first 4 months of the season so even if he doesn't finish strong, he was still good for over half the year which led to those good numbers.

[T R U]

The only thing is that he was actually pretty solid for the first 4 months of the season so even if he doesn't finish strong, he was still good for over half the year which led to those good numbers.

 

I don't have a problem with Gillaspie being a part of the team, I don't want him to be a starting 3B or DH for this team though.

[Señor Ding-Dong]

A lot of teams play matchups with their DH now. It might be the better way to build a roster if you're lacking David Ortiz or Victor Martinez to just plant in the lineup and mash.

 

Why are you so convinced Gillaspie is a .250 hitter?

I think he's the same guy who said Davidson should have been the starting 3B all year despite flopping in AAA. I think he's just a huge Davidson fan, therefore he dislikes Gillaspie.

[T R U]

I think he's the same guy who said Davidson should have been the starting 3B all year despite flopping in AAA. I think he's just a huge Davidson fan, therefore he dislikes Gillaspie.

 

Davidson should have started the year in Chicago at 3B. Him flopping in AAA is irrelevant because had he started in Chicago we would never know how it would have turned out. Just because I didn't get a boner when Gillaspie hit .394 for one month doesn't mean I have some hidden agenda against him. BTW, hes only hit .267 since June 1st, so hes been pretty mediocre for a lot longer than just after the all star break.

[2nd_city_saint787]

I'm not as high on Gillaspie as others are but he's certainly earned a spot on next years squad to see which version of him is legit.

[greg775]

I'm not as high on Gillaspie as others are but he's certainly earned a spot on next years squad to see which version of him is legit.

 

He's only 27. He's a former first round draft pick. So yes, this post is spot on. His "conventional" stat line, the non advanced stats indicate a decent prospect.

He's hitting .295 with six homers and 49 RBI. His on base is .347. Playing in the Cell, the power numbers are pedestrian obviously, but baseball power numbers are down, anyway. His defense is inconsistent. He's made some amazing plays over there but has looked like a college player on too many occasions on grounders he's booted.

 

I'd say he definitely deserves another year if he finishes this year hitting a shade under .300. But signs are he's another platoon candidate. I guess that wouldn't be all bad except for the defense issue. I am of the belief the Sox are in trouble if they keep fielding lousy defensive teams. Hahn certainly has a lot of work to do to get this team competitive again.

 

Flowers is getting to the point where like the one poster pointed out, he's actually not abysmal for a modern day catcher. You can win with a Tyler Flowers ... as long as he doesn't finish up with one of those 1-for-36 stretches.

Edited September 4, 2014 by greg775

[BlackSox13]

I don't have a problem with Gillaspie being a part of the team, I don't want him to be a starting 3B or DH for this team though.

Well,when you become owner of the Sox the it will be about what YOU want but until then, its not about what you want because like it or not you are just a fan the same as the rest of us.

 

Davidson should have started the year in Chicago at 3B. Him flopping in AAA is irrelevant because had he started in Chicago we would never know how it would have turned out. Just because I didn't get a boner when Gillaspie hit .394 for one month doesn't mean I have some hidden agenda against him. BTW, hes only hit .267 since June 1st, so hes been pretty mediocre for a lot longer than just after the all star break.

This is again based on YOU and your opinion which, as a fan, is irrelevant. If Davidson struggled to hit AAA pitching then how in the hell do you figure he hits MLB pitching. You're making zero sense.

 

Oh yeah, I'll .267 from Gillaspie at the MLB level as opposed to Davidson whopping .199 at AAA. Again, you make zero sense.

 

I'm not as high on Gillaspie as others are but he's certainly earned a spot on next years squad to see which version of him is legit.

Agreed. There are more pressing issues than 3B. There are two glaring holes in the rotation, the bullpen is a pigpen, DH needs to be filled somehow and LF can use some attention as well. If an opportunity comes along to upgrade 3B then great, I'm all for it but if not I see no problem with Gillaspie at 3B next year.

Edited September 4, 2014 by StRoostifer

[chitownsportsfan]

The problem is that he SUCKS against LHP. It's an obvious platoon situation and Robin doesn't see it.

 

An idea that could easily work is to use Semian as a true super sub next year (he was playing SS in AAA) as a platoon 3B against LHP for Conor and a day off sub for Alexei, Sanchez and whoever if in LF.

 

That would get him 300 or so PA and it protects Conor's value because he loses a lot of it against LHP.

[greg775]

The Davidson issue is kind of strange. I remember reading one post saying he should have been the starter and they are blaming his whole lousy minor league season on the disappointment he felt in not making the team. That's assuming way too much and kind of a crazy leap. That's taking the backup quarterback popularity thing to a wild level. Just because Davidson is unknown doesn't mean he's good. Just cause the Sox traded for him doesn't mean he'll make it.

[LDF]

 

Conor, regardless of most posters opinion, is a good to really good part

of this team. he has proved it so far. he has what, over 400 at bats, posting

a decent avg, until as of Aug, and at a nice salary. that in itself should be

a nice position for at least 1 - 2 more yrs.

 

worst case, after next yr, he either put up the same #'s and he is a future part

or trade bait. the sox does not have the players not at this time the leverage

to invest for another missing piece for a great team.

[LDF]

The Davidson issue is kind of strange. I remember reading one post saying he

should have been the starter and they are blaming his whole lousy minor league

season on the disappointment he felt in not making the team. That's assuming

way too much and kind of a crazy leap. That's taking the backup quarterback popularity

thing to a wild level. Just because Davidson is unknown doesn't mean he's good.

Just cause the Sox traded for him doesn't mean he'll make it.

 

I agree but I would like to make another point. they are professional baseball players.

what does it say for a player who gets a hurt feeling b/c he doesn't get it his way.

 

 

 

[Jake]

Conor's a nice little player. I don't mind him being a starter, but I think you're going to like him more and more the less he plays against lefties.

[T R U]

This is again based on YOU and your opinion which, as a fan, is irrelevant. If Davidson struggled to hit AAA pitching then how in the hell do you figure he hits MLB pitching. You're making zero sense.

 

Oh yeah, I'll .267 from Gillaspie at the MLB level as opposed to Davidson whopping .199 at AAA. Again, you make zero sense.

 

Davidson has zero track record of not being able to hit AAA pitching until this year. He also hit when he was called up for Arizona last year. Please nostradamus, explain to me how you know whether or not Davidson would be having the same results at the MLB level as he is right now in AAA. You cant, because we don't know that. Thus, you make no sense.

 

What I do know is, based off of his call up last year and how he played during spring training, Davidson should have been playing 3B for the Sox. The Sox, who were entering a throw away year that they knew was going to be for rebuilding, and instead tossed a .240 hitter out there at 3B instead of a prospect who showed nothing that would make you believe he wasn't ready.

 

Also, im not sending a letter to the White Sox organization requesting Gillaspie not be starting on this team next year. That's my personal opinion I am sharing with the board, what the f*** are you talking about bro?

[T R U]

Oh, and in before captain hindsight comes in here and says "but they made the right call"

[2nd_city_saint787]

The problem is that he SUCKS against LHP. It's an obvious platoon situation and Robin doesn't see it.

 

An idea that could easily work is to use Semian as a true super sub next year (he was playing SS in AAA) as a platoon 3B against LHP for Conor and a day off sub for Alexei, Sanchez and whoever if in LF.

 

That would get him 300 or so PA and it protects Conor's value because he loses a lot of it against LHP.

 

C'mon now....Who prior to Semien getting called up could have platooned with Gillaspie? Lets not throw stones at Robin for not platooning him when Leury Garcia was his backup infielder.

[Vance Law]

Why are you so convinced hes not? Just look at his body of work over his time in the majors. Im not going to look at a month of hitting .394 and say the guys awesome. He hit .245 last year and has hit .242 since the all star break. He had two months where he hit .394 and .333, those are outliers.

 

Gillaspie has hit .320 (6th best in all of MLB) with an .848 OPS (#26 in all of MLB) against righties this year. He has hit .289 with a .795 OPS against righties in 743 career plate appearances against them. White Sox hitters have faced right-handed pitchers 73.8% of the time this year (that's a lot!). Vs. left handers 26.2% of the time.

 

This can't be that difficult to understand.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Vance Law

[Vance Law]

The problem is that he SUCKS against LHP. It's an obvious platoon situation and Robin doesn't see it.

 

Why on Earth would you think Robin "doesn't see it"? Dayan Viciedo has sucked against right handed pitching for all 3 of his seasons. He's sucked against all pitching most of the time. He has continued to be a starter virtually that entire time. Do you think Robin doesn't see it? Wouldn't you think that these personnel decisions are made not purely at the managerial level? That decisions regarding these players for the longer-term future to determine if they can figure out how to hit same-handed pitching particularly in a season that doesn't matter? If and when the team is actually competing, obviously Gillapsie would be platooning if he hasn't figured lefties out.

 

[greg775]

Davidson has zero track record of not being able to hit AAA pitching until this year. He also hit when he was called up for Arizona last year. Please nostradamus, explain to me how you know whether or not Davidson would be having the same results at the MLB level as he is right now in AAA. You cant, because we don't know that. Thus, you make no sense.

 

What I do know is, based off of his call up last year and how he played during spring training, Davidson should have been playing 3B for the Sox. The Sox, who were entering a throw away year that they knew was going to be for rebuilding, and instead tossed a .240 hitter out there at 3B instead of a prospect who showed nothing that would make you believe he wasn't ready.

 

Also, im not sending a letter to the White Sox organization requesting Gillaspie not be starting on this team next year. That's my personal opinion I am sharing with the board, what the f*** are you talking about bro?

 

Cmon, Davidson is an easy out, an easy whiff candidate. If he's doing this poorly in the minors, you can bet these big leaguers would set him up perfectly, drop an offspeed pitch and whiff. I'm basing this on his minor league numbers. We'll see if he improves.

[BlackSox13]

Davidson has zero track record of not being able to hit AAA pitching until this year. He also hit when he was called up for Arizona last year. Please nostradamus, explain to me how you know whether or not Davidson would be having the same results at the MLB level as he is right now in AAA. You cant, because we don't know that. Thus, you make no sense.

 

What I do know is, based off of his call up last year and how he played during spring training, Davidson should have been playing 3B for the Sox. The Sox, who were entering a throw away year that they knew was going to be for rebuilding, and instead tossed a .240 hitter out there at 3B instead of a prospect who showed nothing that would make you believe he wasn't ready.

 

Also, im not sending a letter to the White Sox organization requesting Gillaspie not be starting on this team next year. That's my personal opinion I am sharing with the board, what the f*** are you talking about bro?

 

I make no sense? I'm not the one clamoring about how a player COULD have hit had he played. And you refer to me as Nostradamus?

 

Again, you're complaining about an MLB player only hitting .240 while clammouring for a player that hit AAA pitching to the tune of .199 claiming he could have hit better at the MLB level?

 

Going back to ST, Gillaspie is a lefty batting in a lefty deficient lineup as well as having over 450 plate appearances in 2013, Davidson to Charlotte made perfect sense. Davidson was sent down with the intention of likely calling him up at some point given injuries happen ( and did to Gillaspie) and players struggle. Problem is that Davidson went to Charlotte and s*** his pampers. If in fact Davidson was dissapointed over being sent to Charlotte to start the season then that's his fault because nobody from the Sox front office ever said Davidson WOULD make the MLB roster out of ST.

 

Believe it or not I like Davidson and since he's only 23 I've not given up on him but he has plenty to work on yet. Plate discipline and pitch recognition are the first things that come to mind.

 

[T R U]

I make no sense? I'm not the one clamoring about how a player COULD have hit had he played. And you refer to me as Nostradamus?

 

Again, you're complaining about an MLB player only hitting .240 while clammouring for a player that hit AAA pitching to the tune of .199 claiming he could have hit better at the MLB level?

 

Going back to ST, Gillaspie is a lefty batting in a lefty deficient lineup as well as having over 450 plate appearances in 2013, Davidson to Charlotte made perfect sense. Davidson was sent down with the intention of likely calling him up at some point given injuries happen ( and did to Gillaspie) and players struggle. Problem is that Davidson went to Charlotte and s*** his pampers. If in fact Davidson was dissapointed over being sent to Charlotte to start the season then that's his fault because nobody from the Sox front office ever said Davidson WOULD make the MLB roster out of ST.

 

Believe it or not I like Davidson and since he's only 23 I've not given up on him but he has plenty to work on yet. Plate discipline and pitch recognition are the first things that come to mind.

 

You either have a problem reading, or comprehending.. I don't know which one it is. I never "clamored" how Davidson could have done. Ive said multiple times we will never know how he would have done because he didn't get the opportunity to.

 

For a team that knew they were going to be throwing away 2014 and rebuilding, what sense does it make to play Gillaspie fresh off his .245 season with no real attractive tools over Davidson when you look at what he did at the end of 2013 plus ST (Where he batted quite well). If he stunk it up in ST, I could understand that.

 

Its not about what I think he would have done, he should have been given the opportunity based of the teams situation and the fact that Gillaspie is nothing more than a situational player and will never be anything more than that. .245 hitter last year, .267 hitter this year outside of 2 months. Guy cant play everyday, sorry, but that's FACT.

 

[LDF]

You either have a problem reading, or comprehending.. I don't know which one it is. I never "clamored" how Davidson could have done. Ive said multiple times we will never know how he would have done because he didn't get the opportunity to.

 

For a team that knew they were going to be throwing away 2014 and rebuilding, what sense does it make to play Gillaspie fresh off his .245 season with no real attractive tools over Davidson when you look at what he did at the end of 2013 plus ST (Where he batted quite well). If he stunk it up in ST, I could understand that.

 

Its not about what I think he would have done, he should have been given the opportunity based of the teams situation and the fact that Gillaspie is nothing more than a situational player and will never be anything more than that. .245 hitter last year, .267 hitter this year outside of 2 months. Guy cant play everyday, sorry, but that's FACT.

 

I will refrain from answering the first part.... where I so much want too.

 

but lets talk about st. yes the sox made a trade for a 3b and I would say b/c there wasn't a viable option there, or so they thought.

conor came on and performed really well and Davidson didn't. the sox kept conor prob with the hope in seeing what kind of player

conor develop into.

 

it was a try out for both and 1 won and the other didn't

Edited September 4, 2014 by LDF

[Chicago White Sox]

Gillaspie >>>>>>> Davidson

 

Hindsight might be a b****, but guys that hit below .200 in AAA would have got destroyed in the majors. There really is no argument to be had here.

[BlackSox13]

You either have a problem reading, or comprehending.. I don't know which one it is. I never "clamored" how Davidson could have done. Ive said multiple times we will never know how he would have done because he didn't get the opportunity to.

 

For a team that knew they were going to be throwing away 2014 and rebuilding, what sense does it make to play Gillaspie fresh off his .245 season with no real attractive tools over Davidson when you look at what he did at the end of 2013 plus ST (Where he batted quite well). If he stunk it up in ST, I could understand that.

 

Its not about what I think he would have done, he should have been given the opportunity based of the teams situation and the fact that Gillaspie is nothing more than a situational player and will never be anything more than that. .245 hitter last year, .267 hitter this year outside of 2 months. Guy cant play everyday, sorry, but that's FACT.

Davidson only hit .199 and struck out 164 times in only 478 at bats. The results show that the Sox knew Davidson had a problem with pitch recognition and contact issues which explains why he was sent down and why his numbers at Charlotte suck. These are the indicators that show Davidson was not and still is not ready. Also would like to point out that the Sox wanted Davidson at Charlotte because he needed work on his defense at 3B which by the way was a horrible .943 fielding percentage for the season at Charlotte . Combine all that with Conor's lefty bat and MLB experience and its easy to see how Davidson played at Charlotte and Gillespie played for the Sox. Those are the facts!

 

That said, I'm done. Enjoy.