Romo's velocity is down bad and I don't like paying guys for their production in a pitcher-friendly ballpark in the NL.

 

Gergorson is another guy who built a track record in two pitcher-friendly parks. In fact, he has pitched in SD an OAK which have the lowest BABIPs from 2009-2012. I am not saying he's not a good piece, but I do think his market is going to be higher than he's going to be worth.

 

I agree about Gregerson, look at his career home/away splits against

 

Home: .178/.247/.262, 7 HR allowed

Away: .253/.310/.386, 22 HR allowed

I agree about Gregerson, look at his career home/away splits against

 

Home: .178/.247/.262, 7 HR allowed

Away: .253/.310/.386, 22 HR allowed

 

ouch that hurts.

I agree about Gregerson, look at his career home/away splits against

 

Home: .178/.247/.262, 7 HR allowed

Away: .253/.310/.386, 22 HR allowed

 

Total of 22 HR is a bit misleading, as it is over 819 PA in 205 games. Focus on the .386 SLG. That's pretty good for being the worse half of your splits.

Romo's velocity is down bad and I don't like paying guys for their production in a pitcher-friendly ballpark in the NL.

 

Gergorson is another guy who built a track record in two pitcher-friendly parks. In fact, he has pitched in SD an OAK which have the lowest BABIPs from 2009-2012. I am not saying he's not a good piece, but I do think his market is going to be higher than he's going to be worth.

 

 

I see what you're saying but I think Cooper can help these guys improve. I just think without any significant improvements to the bullpen, this team won't go anywhere. Can't continue to piss away leads and good outings by the SP's because of a bad bullpen.

 

Another option although I'm not sure how much it helps you in the big picture is to trade someone (Alexei, DV) for bullpen help.

If you sign Sandoval, you're practically committing yourself to trading Gillaspie since Sandoval is a better version of Gillaspie. Headley, Markakis, and Cruz would likely be my top 3 FA targets.

 

Are you really suggesting that you wouldn't sign a player like Sandoval because of Conor Gillaspie?

Are you really suggesting that you wouldn't sign a player like Sandoval because of Conor Gillaspie?

Kinda.

 

The way I keep looking at it...an upgrade to the 3b position is minor. It could push an 87 win team over the top, but we're not an 87 win team right now. An upgrade to the corner OF, middle of the rotation, or bullpen, is a major upgrade.

 

Basically, spending money for a big time player at a position where we already have someone tolerable is ok if we've filled the huge holes and still have funds remaining. It's not the priority though - if you add an upgrade to 3b and the bullpen but leave the corner OF spot with a Viciedo sized hole, that team is not winning.

 

 

I really hate to say this but whomever sign Sandoval, all we see him gain

all that weight he lost back on. health wise, I don't know.

Kinda.

 

The way I keep looking at it...an upgrade to the 3b position is minor. It could push an 87 win team over the top, but we're not an 87 win team right now. An upgrade to the corner OF, middle of the rotation, or bullpen, is a major upgrade.

 

Basically, spending money for a big time player at a position where we already have someone tolerable is ok if we've filled the huge holes and still have funds remaining. It's not the priority though - if you add an upgrade to 3b and the bullpen but leave the corner OF spot with a Viciedo sized hole, that team is not winning.

 

If/When we become serious competitors in the AL Conor Gillaspie will not be our everyday 3B...he's just not that good. We need a long term solution at 3B and Gillaspie isn't it. Is Gillaspie the biggest hole in the lineup? No, but that doesn't mean you pass on a chance to sign a guy like Sandoval because of that.

If/When we become serious competitors in the AL Conor Gillaspie will not be our everyday 3B...he's just not that good.

 

You saw Mike Moustakas in the playoffs this year, right?

 

No, but that doesn't mean you pass on a chance to sign a guy like Sandoval because of that.

 

There are lots of reasons to pass on signing Sandoval, namely he'll be getting an absurd amount of money that he is not worth.

You saw Mike Moustakas in the playoffs this year, right?

 

 

 

There are lots of reasons to pass on signing Sandoval, namely he'll be getting an absurd amount of money that he is not worth.

 

What does Moustakas have to do with Gillaspie?

 

And I'm not advocating signing Sandoval really. Don't get me wrong, I would want if the $ was right (which it won't be), but my post was more about the idea of not wanting to sing any player because of Conor Gillaspie being ridiculous. Sandoval was the example that someone else used.

What does Moustakas have to do with Gillaspie?

 

And I'm not advocating signing Sandoval really. Don't get me wrong, I would want if the $ was right (which it won't be), but my post was more about the idea of not wanting to sing any player because of Conor Gillaspie being ridiculous. Sandoval was the example that someone else used.

 

I'm with you on this one -- Conor is a nice stopgap, but he is not blocking anybody at all, inside or outside the organization.

 

I think the argument that Balta et al. are making is simply that we have bigger holes to fill first, which is true also.

Are you really suggesting that you wouldn't sign a player like Sandoval because of Conor Gillaspie?

 

Don't get me wrong, I like Sandoval and would want him on my team. That said, Sandoval is a left handed hitting 3B who struggles to hit lefties and whose performance has trended downward the last few years. Basically, he's Conor Gillaspie with a slightly better bat and much better glove. To me, that's a fairly marginal upgrade, and considering Gillaspie is a cost controlled asset and Sandoval is looking for $100 million over 6-7 years...I don't think Sandoval is going to be worth 3 more WAR per year than Gillaspie over the next 4-5 years. There are bigger holes to fill, like LF, 2-3 spots in the bullpen, and a mid rotation starter. For the price you'd pay for Sandoval, you could have something like Markakis and a solid pen arm or LaRoche and Billingsley instead. Like Balta said, if this were an 85+ win team, and 3B was the biggest hole, it would make sense to go after Sandoval. With this team, it makes no sense.

Don't get me wrong, I like Sandoval and would want him on my team. That said, Sandoval is a left handed hitting 3B who struggles to hit lefties and whose performance has trended downward the last few years. Basically, he's Conor Gillaspie with a slightly better bat and much better glove. To me, that's a fairly marginal upgrade, and considering Gillaspie is a cost controlled asset and Sandoval is looking for $100 million over 6-7 years...I don't think Sandoval is going to be worth 3 more WAR per year than Gillaspie over the next 4-5 years. There are bigger holes to fill, like LF, 2-3 spots in the bullpen, and a mid rotation starter. For the price you'd pay for Sandoval, you could have something like Markakis and a solid pen arm or LaRoche and Billingsley instead. Like Balta said, if this were an 85+ win team, and 3B was the biggest hole, it would make sense to go after Sandoval. With this team, it makes no sense.

 

All of that makes good sense, but don't forget the Sox also have a hole at DH. Gillaspie could become part of a DH platoon so signing Sandoval might make sense depending on what his cost is and what the cost is for the other guys you mentioned.

Why all the no's to VMart? The guy is a pure hitter and is exactly what this lineup needs. A left handed (or switch hitting) bat to protect Abreu. I know he is 36 but all he will do is DH and maybe play 1st once in a while. 3 years of VMart at 36 will payoff better than 4 years of Dunn. VMart will still be producing when he is 39. Some guys are just pure hitters and he is one of them. Plus, we will hurt Detroit by taking him and who else on the market is a better bat than him?

Why all the no's to VMart? The guy is a pure hitter and is exactly what this lineup needs. A left handed (or switch hitting) bat to protect Abreu. I know he is 36 but all he will do is DH and maybe play 1st once in a while. 3 years of VMart at 36 will payoff better than 4 years of Dunn. VMart will still be producing when he is 39. Some guys are just pure hitters and he is one of them. Plus, we will hurt Detroit by taking him and who else on the market is a better bat than him?

I agree with your general premise, it really comes down to the price IMO. At 3/$48M I think he's a risk worth taking, I'm just not sure he'll be available at that price. His market is hard to gauge because he's only a DH so there won't be a ton of suitors, but he's also arguably the best hitter available in a fairly weak market. All it takes is one team determined to get him and that numbers quickly becomes 4/$64+.

Only way I consider VMart is if it's a very frontloaded deal. Not willing to pay him more than $6-8M for his third year.

That site is having their contest picking where these guys will land. It shows the big difference between baseball and other sports where you basically know where the guys are going. Last year's winner had 27% correct. The best MLBTR writer got about 24%.

For those speculating about what it will take to sign V. Martinez, it might be interesting to note what some of the other great hitters are going to be getting paid in their late 30's, and beyond:

 

Age 36 -39

 

Albert Pujols 25M, 26M, 27M, 28M, Plus 29M at 40, 30M at 41

 

Robinson Cano 24M each year, plus 24M at 40

 

Miguel Cabrera 30M, 30M, 30M, 32M, plus 32M at 40 with vesting options for 32M for two more years if top 10 MVP

 

Given that Victor is the only really great left handed hitter in this year's free agent market, I would guess that it will take at least $20 million, per year for the first 3 years, with

something close to that for the 4TH.

I know that he is pretty much strictly a DH, but he is a switch hitter, and last year helps him make the case that he is aging well.

 

Please don't assume that any of this suggests that I'm advocating signing him to that kind of contract. I'm simply speculating about what it might take.

Edited November 4, 201411 yr by Lillian

For those speculating about what it will take to sign V. Martinez, it might be interesting to note what some of the other great hitters are going to be getting paid in their late 30's, and beyond:

 

Age 36 -39

 

Albert Pujols 25M, 26M, 27M, 28M, Plus 29M at 40, 30M at 41

 

Robinson Cano 24M each year, plus 24M at 40

 

Miguel Cabrera 30M, 30M, 30M, 32M, plus 32M at 40 with vesting options for 32M for two more years if top 10 MVP

 

Given that Victor is the only really great left handed hitter in this year's free agent market, I would guess that it will take at least $20 million, per year for the first 3 years, with

something close to that for the 4TH.

I know that he is pretty much strictly a DH, but he is a switch hitter, and last year helps him make the case that he is aging well.

 

Please don't assume that any of this suggests that I'm advocating signing him to that kind of contract. I'm simply speculating about what it might take.

 

Those aren't fair comparisons though. All those contracts were signed around the age of 31, so they also included 5 years of younger productivity.

For those speculating about what it will take to sign V. Martinez, it might be interesting to note what some of the other great hitters are going to be getting paid in their late 30's, and beyond:

 

Age 36 -39

 

Albert Pujols 25M, 26M, 27M, 28M, Plus 29M at 40, 30M at 41

 

Robinson Cano 24M each year, plus 24M at 40

 

Miguel Cabrera 30M, 30M, 30M, 32M, plus 32M at 40 with vesting options for 32M for two more years if top 10 MVP

 

Given that Victor is the only really great left handed hitter in this year's free agent market, I would guess that it will take at least $20 million, per year for the first 3 years, with

something close to that for the 4TH.

I know that he is pretty much strictly a DH, but he is a switch hitter, and last year helps him make the case that he is aging well.

 

Please don't assume that any of this suggests that I'm advocating signing him to that kind of contract. I'm simply speculating about what it might take.

 

 

It is possible it will cost that much, but he is pretty much strickly a DH and is a lot older when signing the contract than those you mentioned. On the other hand, they usually do get more than you would think, so who knows? We do know one thing, if the White Sox sign him at whatever price, they can afford him.

Why all the no's to VMart? The guy is a pure hitter and is exactly what this lineup needs. A left handed (or switch hitting) bat to protect Abreu. I know he is 36 but all he will do is DH and maybe play 1st once in a while. 3 years of VMart at 36 will payoff better than 4 years of Dunn. VMart will still be producing when he is 39. Some guys are just pure hitters and he is one of them. Plus, we will hurt Detroit by taking him and who else on the market is a better bat than him?

 

Oh. Well, that kind of changes everything. Thanks for bringing that up. Now that we know he'll still be producing at 39, I'm actually kind of on board with it. I wonder if Hahn is privy to this information.

Oh. Well, that kind of changes everything. Thanks for bringing that up. Now that we know he'll still be producing at 39, I'm actually kind of on board with it. I wonder if Hahn is privy to this information.

Don't get me wrong, I like Sandoval and would want him on my team. That said, Sandoval is a left handed hitting 3B who struggles to hit lefties and whose performance has trended downward the last few years. Basically, he's Conor Gillaspie with a slightly better bat and much better glove. To me, that's a fairly marginal upgrade, and considering Gillaspie is a cost controlled asset and Sandoval is looking for $100 million over 6-7 years...I don't think Sandoval is going to be worth 3 more WAR per year than Gillaspie over the next 4-5 years. There are bigger holes to fill, like LF, 2-3 spots in the bullpen, and a mid rotation starter. For the price you'd pay for Sandoval, you could have something like Markakis and a solid pen arm or LaRoche and Billingsley instead. Like Balta said, if this were an 85+ win team, and 3B was the biggest hole, it would make sense to go after Sandoval. With this team, it makes no sense.

 

You're kidding yourself if you think Sandoval's bat is only a slight upgrade over Conor.

I'd be happy with Shields, Masterson, or McCarthy plus Billingsley to put out a rotation of:

 

Sale

Quintana

Masterson/McCarthy

Billingsley

Rodon/Noesi (assuming Noesi to begin year, Rodon to end)

 

Then pursue Hanley Ramirez as a thirdbaseman.

 

 

For those speculating about what it will take to sign V. Martinez, it might be interesting to note what some of the other great hitters are going to be getting paid in their late 30's, and beyond:

 

Age 36 -39

 

Albert Pujols 25M, 26M, 27M, 28M, Plus 29M at 40, 30M at 41

 

Robinson Cano 24M each year, plus 24M at 40

 

Miguel Cabrera 30M, 30M, 30M, 32M, plus 32M at 40 with vesting options for 32M for two more years if top 10 MVP

 

Given that Victor is the only really great left handed hitter in this year's free agent market, I would guess that it will take at least $20 million, per year for the first 3 years, with

something close to that for the 4TH.

I know that he is pretty much strictly a DH, but he is a switch hitter, and last year helps him make the case that he is aging well.

 

Please don't assume that any of this suggests that I'm advocating signing him to that kind of contract. I'm simply speculating about what it might take.

 

That Cabrera contract is going to go down with the 2nd Arod deal as one of the worst in baseball history.