Is one of those 2 going to be Greinke? I don't really see them shelling out that much for a guy who will be 32 next season. There's also pretty much no chance he gets anywhere close to a 1.60 ERA again, he's been insanely lucky with both BABIP and LOB%, with both marks being significantly off his career averages.

Well I don't expect them to spend $200 million on his next contract necessarily but they've already spent $70 million on him over 3 years.

 

Hell, counting Kershaw's current deal and Greinke's last contract they committed >$450 million.

Is one of those 2 going to be Greinke? I don't really see them shelling out that much for a guy who will be 32 next season.

Yeah, but it's the Dodgers. They can spend whatever they want

Or having a horrendous trade deadline

They weren't going to interrupt a rebuild. The only piece they were trying to move was Castro, and no one wants him. It's crazy there's a chance he's not on the postseason lineup.

Arrieta on his way to not giving up a run in his start. Would be 6 of his last 7 starts. Can't believe some think Sale has been better this year.

Arrieta on his way to not giving up a run in his start. Would be 6 of his last 7 starts. Can't believe some think Sale has been better this year.

Sale has been better this year.

Edited September 5, 201510 yr by Jose Abreu

Arrieta on his way to not giving up a run in his start. Would be 6 of his last 7 starts. Can't believe some think Sale has been better this year.

NL is awful. Isn't it ironic that the 1 start where he did give up a run during that stretch (3 runs, 2 earned) was against one of the worst offenses in the AL our very own Chicago White Sox. The rest of those starts were against NL teams, go figure.

Arrieta on his way to not giving up a run in his start. Would be 6 of his last 7 starts. Can't believe some think Sale has been better this year.

 

Arrieta on his way to not giving up a run in his start. Would be 6 of his last 7 starts. Can't believe some think Sale has been better this year.

On the things we know pitchers can control, Sale has been better this year. Do you think Greinke has been better than Kershaw this year?

Edited September 5, 201510 yr by OmarComing25

On the things we know pitchers can control, Sale has been better this year. Do you think Greinke has been better than Kershaw this year?

 

Difference in ERA between Greinke and Kershaw is half the difference between Arrieta and Sale. A 2.03 vs a 3.29 ERA is a pretty obvious choice for me as to the better pitcher for that season.

Difference in ERA between Greinke and Kershaw is half the difference between Arrieta and Sale. A 2.03 vs a 3.29 ERA is a pretty obvious choice for me as to the better pitcher for that season.

Sale has given up weaker contact than Arrieta if you look at their batted ball profiles. He has him beat pretty handily by every advanced metric. Was Sale better last year compared to this year? I don't think so.

Sale has given up weaker contact than Arrieta if you look at their batted ball profiles. He has him beat pretty handily by every advanced metric. Was Sale better last year compared to this year? I don't think so.

 

Sale absolutely was better last year, IMO. Significantly fewer hits allowed. He also was way, way better with RISP last year.

Edited September 5, 201510 yr by fathom

Sale absolutely was better last year, IMO. Significantly fewer hits allowed. He also was way, way better with RISP last year.

Agree to disagree then. There's way too much noise in the ERA metric for me to trust it too much (BABIP luck, defense, sequencing), this year has convinced me of that. Sale has been far more dominant this year than last year IMO.

Agree to disagree then. There's way too much noise in the ERA metric for me to trust it too much (BABIP luck, defense, sequencing), this year has convinced me of that. Sale has been far more dominant this year than last year IMO.

 

What's sequencing in regards to? FWIW, I'm a much bigger believer in WAR, etc for hitters than I am FIP for pitchers.

Arrieta could be the CY and MVP. He's been that good. That pitching staff without him is gross.

Edited September 6, 201510 yr by Jordan4life

Arrieta could be the CY and MVP. He's been that good. That pitching staff without him is gross.

MVP??? LOL

What's sequencing in regards to? FWIW, I'm a much bigger believer in WAR, etc for hitters than I am FIP for pitchers.

Sequencing is the order you give up hits. Let's say two pitchers give up a walk, a single, and a homer in an inning. If Pitcher A gives up the homer first, then the other two, he ends up giving up only one run. If Pitcher B gives up the walk and single first and then the home run, he gives up three runs. ERA says Pitcher B was three times worse than Pitcher A. FIP says they were the same, because in a way they essentially did the same thing.

Sequencing is the order you give up hits. Let's say two pitchers give up a walk, a single, and a homer in an inning. If Pitcher A gives up the homer first, then the other two, he ends up giving up only one run. If Pitcher B gives up the walk and single first and then the home run, he gives up three runs. ERA says Pitcher B was three times worse than Pitcher A. FIP says they were the same, because in a way they essentially did the same thing.

 

Thanks for clarifying

The argument is kind of irrelevant seeing they're in different leagues. They're both amazing right now.

MVP??? LOL

 

Yes, their rotation is garbage 3-5. Bullpen is ok. Bunch of kids (though very talented) on offense. Arrieta has put the team on his back and should be the favorite in the play-in game.

Yes, their rotation is garbage 3-5. Bullpen is ok. Bunch of kids (though very talented) on offense. Arrieta has put the team on his back and should be the favorite in the play-in game.

 

Hard to give a pitcher MVP votes on a team that should have two offensive players in the top 10 for MVP as well

Yes, their rotation is garbage 3-5. Bullpen is ok. Bunch of kids (though very talented) on offense. Arrieta has put the team on his back and should be the favorite in the play-in game.

ZERO chance he garners more votes than Harper.

ZERO chance he garners more votes than Harper.

 

"he" = anyone in the NL

 

I'd love to see the Nats finish off on a 25-5 or so run here

Thanks for clarifying

FWIW, I don have a problem with the view that Arrieta has been better this year. The ERA difference is pretty big, and I'm not necessarily in the camp of "pitcher's have 0% control on balls in play". The case for Arrieta is strong. I've always used ERA a lot, but this year has just made me sour on it a bit because of Sale. His advanced metrics are the best of his career by far, but his ERA is looking like it's going to be the worst of his career so far. With a difference that stark it just feels like ERA is missing a big part of the story. I mean it doesn't make sense that Sale is giving up the weakest contact of his career yet he's giving up more hits. There's something else there. And when the same pattern exists with the other pitchers on the same staff (like with Quintana), that just further increases that doubt in my mind.

"he" = anyone in the NL

 

I'd love to see the Nats finish off on a 25-5 or so run here

Agreed, which is why the thought of Arrieta winning the MVP is laughable

FWIW, I don have a problem with the view that Arrieta has been better this year. The ERA difference is pretty big, and I'm not necessarily in the camp of "pitcher's have 0% control on balls in play". The case for Arrieta is strong. I've always used ERA a lot, but this year has just made me sour on it a bit because of Sale. His advanced metrics are the best of his career by far, but his ERA is looking like it's going to be the worst of his career so far. With a difference that stark it just feels like ERA is missing a big part of the story. I mean it doesn't make sense that Sale is giving up the weakest contact of his career yet he's giving up more hits. There's something else there. And when the same pattern exists with the other pitchers on the same staff (like with Quintana), that just further increases that doubt in my mind.

 

With regards to the weak contact stuff, how about the fact that the reason his ERA is so high is because the Twins have destroyed him this year? In those games, it definitely wasn't weak contact. There's no doubt that a majority of his games, Sale just dominates.