If we hadn't taken a shot this past offseason and made 2015 a rebuilding year instead, then 2016 probably wasn't going to have high expectations either. The only move that could potentially really hamper us past 2016 was Melky and that's just for 2017. Other than that it's the two draft picks and Semien (who would be nice to have right now). At least we didn't gut a top farm system and hamper ourselves with horrible contracts like the Padres did.

Semien would serve no purpose on the current Sox team.

 

Sanchez/Johnson cover 2nd, Alexei/someone else plays short, and Olt/Saladino/etc play third.

 

His glove is awful, especially on the left side of the infield. He'd probably be best suited for 2nd base and there's no space for him.

Start with Kenny. He has to go. To a greater extent, Jerry does too. The two of them could care less about the farm system. There's no revenue in it. They've been tinkering with the same bad team now for years, adding free agents and trading for veterans while all the while not fluxing any kind of talent into the big club from the farm. They're hellbent on pitching but have no one who can field or hit. In a hitter friendly ballpark they play 81 games in no less.

 

Rick Hahn seems like a smart guy, but if he has Kenny stepping on his head, it doesn't really matter how smart he is. Then you have Robin, who while being a total waste of a manager, has this dysfunction above him.

 

Could Joe Maddon manage a team with this kind of front office? He's worked for Andrew Friedman and Theo Epstein. I'd say that helps matters for him, and while Maddon is a good manager, imagine having brain trusts like those helping make your job easier.

 

Jerry hires his kids. Bulls, White Sox, doesn't matter. You've played for one of his teams? Great. You're hired.

Is there anyone who actually disagrees with this? Anyone actually confident in the stewardship of the organization by these two individuals, particularly the owner? Anyone? And if so, why?

If we hadn't taken a shot this past offseason and made 2015 a rebuilding year instead, then 2016 probably wasn't going to have high expectations either. The only move that could potentially really hamper us past 2016 was Melky and that's just for 2017. Other than that it's the two draft picks and Semien (who would be nice to have right now). At least we didn't gut a top farm system and hamper ourselves with horrible contracts like the Padres did.

 

2 draft picks minus 1 draft pick (that we'll get from Shark QO) = 1 draft pick

He definitely does. The manager creates an atmosphere that either encourages or discourages the team. As I originally posted, I had not seen the Cubs play until this series. Look how Joe Maddon is making changes with his lineup. I would think having a lineup w 4 rookies playing key roles makes his job a lot tougher than a team w a strong veteran presence. The manager creates the atmosphere and ultimately is the cheerleader and the ass-kicker. Read Terry Francona's book about all the drama that comes with the job.

 

Having rookies who hit dingers makes his job easier than having rookies who strike out and fail on defense.

Semien would serve no purpose on the current Sox team.

 

Sanchez/Johnson cover 2nd, Alexei/someone else plays short, and Olt/Saladino/etc play third.

 

His glove is awful, especially on the left side of the infield. He'd probably be best suited for 2nd base and there's no space for him.

 

Exactly. I LIKED Semien, but we have to acknowledge that it's a good idea to trade from depth.

2 draft picks minus 1 draft pick (that we'll get from Shark QO) = 1 draft pick

Good point, hadn't thought about it that way. The QO pick will also be higher in the draft than the two picks we lost.

When we think about how the Cardinals "don't rebuild, they just reload," how much of that reload is based on great scouting and player development and how much of it is based on PEDs?

 

In the early 2000's, the Sox played clean while the rest of the league played dirty. Then MLB decided to clean up its act, and, next thing you know, the White Sox are World Series champs.

 

Case in point, Yadier Molina was supposedly out for the NLDS, and yet he started games 1, 2, and 3. I find that fishy.

 

I don't mind if the Sox are losing, if they are losing clean and the other teams are cheating. I would be seriously pissed if our guys are cheating, too, and still losing!

 

It's easy to become cynical and say that everybody cheats, but Herm Schneider rules that clubhouse with an iron fist. I think he would know if a player is cheating, and I think he would "encourage" the club to get rid of him - see Swisher, Nick.

When we think about how the Cardinals "don't rebuild, they just reload," how much of that reload is based on great scouting and player development and how much of it is based on PEDs?

 

In the early 2000's, the Sox played clean while the rest of the league played dirty. Then MLB decided to clean up its act, and, next thing you know, the White Sox are World Series champs.

 

Case in point, Yadier Molina was supposedly out for the NLDS, and yet he started games 1, 2, and 3. I find that fishy.

 

I don't mind if the Sox are losing, if they are losing clean and the other teams are cheating. I would be seriously pissed if our guys are cheating, too, and still losing!

 

It's easy to become cynical and say that everybody cheats, but Herm Schneider rules that clubhouse with an iron fist. I think he would know if a player is cheating, and I think he would "encourage" the club to get rid of him - see Swisher, Nick.

 

you are making a point with ref to ped. but i would like to maybe change that to how many times has the sox played within the parameters of the rules of the game.

 

the sox has yet to break any rules of overspending in the int'l fa signing. for the longest time the sox didn't overspend in the fa market, b/c of the owners perception of doing the right thing for the game.

 

that second example was lame ... but the team would have had a better foundation to build on, if it wasn't for this.

 

that is why i keep coming back on the inhouse policy of doing things.

When we think about how the Cardinals "don't rebuild, they just reload," how much of that reload is based on great scouting and player development and how much of it is based on PEDs?

 

In the early 2000's, the Sox played clean while the rest of the league played dirty. Then MLB decided to clean up its act, and, next thing you know, the White Sox are World Series champs.

 

Case in point, Yadier Molina was supposedly out for the NLDS, and yet he started games 1, 2, and 3. I find that fishy.

 

I don't mind if the Sox are losing, if they are losing clean and the other teams are cheating. I would be seriously pissed if our guys are cheating, too, and still losing!

 

It's easy to become cynical and say that everybody cheats, but Herm Schneider rules that clubhouse with an iron fist. I think he would know if a player is cheating, and I think he would "encourage" the club to get rid of him - see Swisher, Nick.

 

Anything is possible but I think it would be very hard to do and get away with (just ask Bartolo Colon to cite one example or Alex Rodriguez). Penalties are becoming much tougher, guys are getting to an extent stigmatized.

 

Honestly I don't think many guys at the big league level are willing to risk it now.

 

The Cardinals are the model major league franchise especially in terms of scouting and developing kids.

 

Mark

Anything is possible but I think it would be very hard to do and get away with (just ask Bartolo Colon to cite one example or Alex Rodriguez). Penalties are becoming much tougher, guys are getting to an extent stigmatized.

 

Honestly I don't think many guys at the big league level are willing to risk it now.

 

The Cardinals are the model major league franchise especially in terms of scouting and developing kids.

 

Mark

 

nice... really nice post.

Having rookies who hit dingers makes his job easier than having rookies who strike out and fail on defense.

 

Actually Maddon did the same thing in Tampa. He was constantly subbing in late innings, mixing up starters and really using all 25 players on the roster.

As I originally posted, I had not seen the Cubs play until this series. Look how Joe Maddon is making changes with his lineup. I would think having a lineup w 4 rookies playing key roles makes his job a lot tougher than a team w a strong veteran presence.

 

Aha, so it's Maddon's "making changes with his lineup" that causes them to succeed. Having the game's #1 prospect (Bryant) and 3 more of the top 15 or so position prospects isn't particularly relevant. Maddon would be having the same success with Cubs prospects like Brett Jackson and Josh Vitters. That's how good Maddon's lineup changes are.

Aha, so it's Maddon's "making changes with his lineup" that causes them to succeed. Having the game's #1 prospect (Bryant) and 3 more of the top 15 or so position prospects isn't particularly relevant. Maddon would be having the same success with Cubs prospects like Brett Jackson and Josh Vitters. That's how good Maddon's lineup changes are.

Great post.

Exactly. I LIKED Semien, but we have to acknowledge that it's a good idea to trade from depth.

Yup. Still to this day don't have an issue with the trade.

Semien would serve no purpose on the current Sox team.

 

Sanchez/Johnson cover 2nd, Alexei/someone else plays short, and Olt/Saladino/etc play third.

 

His glove is awful, especially on the left side of the infield. He'd probably be best suited for 2nd base and there's no space for him.

I have to take issue with this. The Sox offense was a complete mess last year, one of the worst units in the team's history. I think Semien would have managed to scratch his way to some playing time. He had a better year than every player you mentioned.

Actually Maddon did the same thing in Tampa. He was constantly subbing in late innings, mixing up starters and really using all 25 players on the roster.

 

Did you think we needed to see more Emilio Bonifacio?

When we think about how the Cardinals "don't rebuild, they just reload," how much of that reload is based on great scouting and player development and how much of it is based on PEDs?

 

In the early 2000's, the Sox played clean while the rest of the league played dirty. Then MLB decided to clean up its act, and, next thing you know, the White Sox are World Series champs.

 

Case in point, Yadier Molina was supposedly out for the NLDS, and yet he started games 1, 2, and 3. I find that fishy.

 

I don't mind if the Sox are losing, if they are losing clean and the other teams are cheating. I would be seriously pissed if our guys are cheating, too, and still losing!

 

It's easy to become cynical and say that everybody cheats, but Herm Schneider rules that clubhouse with an iron fist. I think he would know if a player is cheating, and I think he would "encourage" the club to get rid of him - see Swisher, Nick.

 

There's really know way to know how clean the Sox actually were. I mean in 2001 the Sox had the biggest steroid user in the history of the game on the roster. Jim Parque was a big part of the 2000 pitching staff and he later tested positive for PEDs. Pablo Ozuna off the 2005 WS team also later tested positive. Who knows if those guys were using with the Sox or not. The Sox have never had a major leaguer suspended but that doesn't mean they're clean. They even have three former PED users on the 25 man roster now.

Edited October 15, 201510 yr by lasttriptotulsa

Yup. Still to this day don't have an issue with the trade.

Still to this day think that's exactly the opposite of what the white sox should have been doing and a symptom of why we're still a mess right now.

Exactly. I LIKED Semien, but we have to acknowledge that it's a good idea to trade from depth.

 

This trade is getting the Sox a comp pick who should be a better prospect than Semien was.

This trade is getting the Sox a comp pick who should be a better prospect than Semien was.

That's very debatable.

That's very debatable.

Semien's defense alone probably makes a comp pick better than him.

Semien's defense alone probably makes a comp pick better than him.

No it doesn't. The systems disagree on his performance and UZR rightly penalized him for making a lot of errors, the rate of which he cut back from one every 27 innings in the first half to one every 80 innings in the second half. Even still, he is a capable hitter playing shortstop, and he put up roughly the same WAR last season as a comp pick is expected to produce in all his years before free agency (see chart titled "Cumulative WAR, Pre-Free Agency").

 

This notion that Semien's defense is a dumpster fire that makes him useless seems to have run wild on this board at some point. It isn't true; he's a pretty good player, guys.

This trade is getting the Sox a comp pick who should be a better prospect than Semien was.

Thing is it wasn't just Semien in the trade. At this point I would rather have Phegley as the backup C, Bassitt in the rotation, Ravelo (high OBP) in the minors and Semien's bat somewhere in the lineup.

 

Considering the state of the Sox, I'd take all four of those players over an unknown comp pick.

It all depends on the pick.

 

If someone like Spencer Adams fell again, I'd rather have that potential in my farm system.

Did you think we needed to see more Emilio Bonifacio?

 

I am not sure. The guy was a .259 career batter who only hit .167 here in limited appearances. If he was washed up then Hahn screwed up by signing him.